I recently interviewed Adrienne Bankert on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today was the weekend anchor for Good Morning America, and is an Emmy Award winner. Adrienne Bankert is the host of Morning in America!, the first morning show ever to be hosted by one woman of color. Adrienne, thank you for joining us.

Adrienne: Thank you for having me, Adam.

Adam: You were raised in Sacramento and attended my alma mater, USC. You were even on campus at the same time as I was. But I won't tell listeners which one of us is older, I won't mention which one of us graduated from USC earlier. I will ask you if you could take listeners back to your early days. What were the key experiences and lessons that were foundational to your success?

Adrienne: Well, I believe, you know, for a lot of us, I actually was born in LA, raised in Northern California. But I always wanted to go back to Los Angeles as a little girl. I was like Mommy, I want to go back to LA. I remember showing her the postcard of where I was born at the hospital and saying Mommy is this where I was born and making it a big deal. Then as I got older, I was so excited and driven to go to New York, because that's where you got on national TV. Much of my young life, I was working hard to become something or to arrive somewhere. And I think that tenacity was very important for me to overcome hurdles, overcome challenges, overcome personality flaws, you know, all of us have stuff on the inside of us that needs to get worked out over time. So I think that that ambition was great as fuel. But I've learned as I've gotten older that, you know, the real dream or the real arrival is in becoming the person that you've always wanted to be, not necessarily geographically being, but where you say you think you should be, whether that's inside of a job, you know, having a certain title or living in a certain city, because quite frankly, it was the things that I didn't plan on doing, it was the things that I didn't want to do that helped me to arrive here. So while I am very grateful that I was scrappy, as a young budding journalist, and even before that, as a teenager, the oldest of seven kids, you know, working around and living with people who had different personalities than mine. I was one out of seven kids, you had people like me that were very vocal and very loud and very extroverted. And then you had siblings who were very quiet and timid. And, you know, you could say one loud word, and it would just shake them. And with me, I wanted to get loud, you know, I thought that's how we work out our relationships, learning these different styles of communication. And also having that chutzpah where I was willing to do and do whatever it took to get where I was, was certainly two game-changing elements of the person I am today. And yet, I've had to evolve quite a bit. And so I would say, for anybody listening, that you've got to have that I can do whatever it takes spirit, no matter what, even if it takes doing something that's really, really hard. Because life is going to surprise you with more adversity than you ever thought was possible. But that makes you stronger.

Adam: Something that I love is that when you were a little girl, you were 12, you said, I'm gonna have my own show one day. And now you have your own show. And so many of us have childhood dreams that turn into career goals. But for most of us, life takes us in a different direction. In your case, you're able to actualize your dream, and you're able to do it in a highly competitive industry. Can you talk about how you were able to do it and what the best lessons were that you learned along the way?

Adrienne: Well, it's interesting, I think that we are all sold this campaign that we have to do this dream or find our way on our own. I really think that in school, we're kind of taught like, whatever you put your mind to, you know, you can get there you can have whatever you're willing to work hard for. We hear these things from our parents. We hear these things from our teachers. We hear these things from our Coaches, but it's when you have a coach, it's when you have a mentor. I mean, your podcast title says it all. Without a mentor, who I really call mentors or guides, we cannot get from point A to point B, which is the dream, the goal, the prize. I've been heavily mentored most of my life. My first mentor was my hairdresser. I met her at 17 years old, and she had a house that she owned, and she was married with two kids. And she had a business, she was an entrepreneur, and I thought, oh my gosh, like she has so much of what I want in life. She actually ended up introducing me to my now mentor, many years later, when I was just starting off my television career, and I had no idea that there was going to be this passing of a baton in one sense, but Bill ended up mentoring me because I asked him to help me. I saw him speaking at a conference. And if it wasn't for these people who shone, they showed a light, they shone a light, if that they shined a light, I'm like, I can't even have the right grammar. I've been up since 1:00 AM, I apologize. But they shined a light on what was possible. And they guided me along my path, it was like they had this flashlight or this lantern. And they were like, if you come this way, this is what it's gonna look like, if you go this way, this is what it's gonna look like. I think that that's the game-changer for everybody. I think secretly, a lot of the most successful people in the world quietly had these gurus and sages and mentors, and coaches, who were whispering advice and counsel in their ear. Without that I know I wouldn't have ended up here, or I might have ended up here, but very, very beat up and broken. Because life can be so disappointing, and be so crooked from what we think it's supposed to be, you know, we expect ourselves to climb from one rung of the ladder to the next. And it's just this simple progression. And what I learned at a younger age, and I'm very grateful for, is that most people over a certain age, have quietly given up on their prize, on their dream, because life has gone so much differently than they ever could have imagined. But when you have a mentor, when you have a tour guide in your life, then you know that you have somebody who hopes with you, who believes in the dream with you as if it was their own, and it gives you enough oxygen to stay in the game to stay alive, really, and to keep your dream alive inside of you.

Adam: How can anyone find a great mentor? And how can anyone optimize a relationship with whoever it is that they ultimately find as their mentor?

Adrienne: Well, I think that anybody can find a mentor. The first way is just to study the authors, or the thought leaders or the role models that you see, you know? Long before I was formally mentored, you know, I quietly liked so many women, not just on TV, but everywhere. I watched Oprah and studied her life and researched her life. And, and I think that anybody that you aspire to be like, even if you have your own brand, you have your own flavor, right. But there are people who have done what you want to do, they just might have done it in a different way than you're going to do it. And so the first way you can be mentored is to get all their books, read whatever articles they have online, make sure to follow them if they have a podcast or they have a book club, or if they have a TV show, follow them and study them and get to know them at a deeper than surface level. That's one way you can be mentored instantly, every author that you have on your bookshelf right now if you study their book, and you live what they teach or what they espouse, then you are being mentored by them, whether you like it or not, everybody's being led by somebody, nobody's this island. The second thing is to allow relationships with people that you want to mentor you to happen organically. So maybe you can't go out to lunch with Oprah. But there might be other people who are doing something that you would like to be doing. And it's like the stepping stone to the dream. It's the stepping stone to the level that you want to be at. Or there's somebody who you just think is an amazing person, because whether they have a title that you want or not, they might have the qualities and the characteristics of the person that you want to be. And so reach out to them. But don't ask, will you mentor me? Just say, can I ask you some questions? Can I do an informational interview? Can I have five or 10 or 15 minutes on a Zoom call? Can I send you an email every quarter and we just have this exchange, ask them what their terms are. And if they don't respond, go to the next person there. There's going to be somebody else that you can use as a sounding board, as a picture of the future for yourself. But don't give up just because somebody says no. Find a way to connect with the person who is doing what you want, but take the time that they'll give you. They only have five minutes, if they only have time to communicate to you digitally online and not on a phone call, take it and learn. And always, always, always remain teachable, because that is the game-changer between the very successful people and the people who don't make it and keep hitting their head against the wall there. If you're not teachable, if you're not coachable, then you aren't qualified, you're not eligible to be mentored. And so the relationship will be very short-lived. Don't wonder why it fell apart if all you want to do is hear the sound of your own voice versus listening to them.

Adam: I love everything you said. And I want to highlight a few points that you made for listeners because what you shared is very much in line with my view on the topic of mentorship. It has to be organic, you can't force a mentor/mentee relationship. To find a great mentor you need to find someone who you share chemistry with. You need to find someone who you share a common bond with. And it really starts with having a mindset in which you're not afraid to ask, you're not afraid to reach out. You're not afraid to connect, however you can. We've had other guests on this podcast who have shared stories, one story that stands out is Pat Williams, the co-founder of the Orlando Magic, when I asked him, how did you connect with your mentor, the great Bill Veeck, he said, I read his book. So your point about following someone who you admire, you admire Oprah, he admired Bill Veeck. He read Bill Veeck’s book, he had a mutual friend with Bill Veeck, he asked for an introduction, he wasn't afraid to ask. There was a lot of commonality between his background, his interests, and Bill Veck’s background, Bill Veeck’s interests, and the connection was organic. And it really melds with a concept that I talk a lot about, which is yes, it's so important to have a great mentor, to have mentors who you meet with, in a traditional way, whether it's meeting once a week, once a month. But I'm also a very big believer, where you have people who you might meet with only once, or you might talk to only once, but that one conversation can be a game-changer, that one interaction could completely change the trajectory of your career, of your life, of your thinking. And to that end, it sounds like you've been such a big beneficiary of both mentors, many mentors, people who have taken you under your wing and people who you've learned from indirectly.

Adrienne: Yes, I've been a huge beneficiary of mentoring from many different walks of life. And, you know, it's nice to have mentors for different aspects of your life, you might need a specialist when it comes to certain facets of your career or development, your personal development, and receiving somebody as a mentor, that's a big deal. Like sometimes you need specialists in your life, people who are helping you in a certain area. Well, while you'll have one overarching mentor, sometimes different people come into your life and when you receive them as a mentor, even if they're not your official mentor, but you allow your boss to mentor you, for example. Or you allow, I don't know, even something so small as when you have to have a good hair day, your barber or your hairstylist, mentor you and kind of tell you listen, like I want to give you some tips on how you can look a little more elevated, I want to give you some tips on how you can look a little more professional and kind of receiving them as a mentor, versus just, you know, putting that word in front of, well, that's just my hairdresser, or that's just my barber. I think sometimes our parents mentor us at different stages of life, especially as we become adults. And it's no longer, you know, mother to child, so to speak, but more peer to peer. So yeah, sometimes we end up mentoring our parents in different ways, as they allow us to speak into their life and give them advice about anything. Again, when you receive someone as a mentor, no matter what their position is in your life, you put a different hat on them, and they're allowed to speak into your life in different ways.

Adam: Adrienne, you shared something that is so important, and that is the power of listening, which is important. As a leader, it's important. As a communicator, you're a professional communicator, you communicate to national audiences for three hours every morning. I communicate for 30 minutes a week. So three hours every morning seems like a lot. How can anyone become a better communicator? And what are your best tips on the topic of communications?

Adrienne: Well, one thing that I've been taught by my career is that, you know, when you see people, high power people, there's a celebrity, there's a journalist interviewing them, or a dignitary, a government official and a journalist interviewing them. I would study because that's part of what my role as a communicator is; to comment on studying how other people communicate. I've learned that if you withhold judgment, you can connect with anybody. As soon as you judge another person, as soon as you make a judgment call about another person, when you're sitting across from them, you cut off the ability to connect with them. You cut off the ability to actually hear what they're really saying, when you judge somebody, when you're offended with somebody, when you're bitter. When you have already pre-judged that person, you have put them in a box and put a wall up where you can't really hear what they're saying. And so I learned in the media, and then doing high profile interviews, that I couldn't judge, I couldn't have any predisposed notions of what that person was about, or what that person thought was important. I really instead would treat them like they were the most genius person in the world. And so when they sat down with me, it didn't matter what the topic was, it didn't matter what the context of the interview was, I thought, okay, this person is at genius level. And I'm going to listen as though they're going to teach me something that I've never heard before. And they're going to make it so clear to me. And so that tunes your ear up differently than if you just sit down and decide, I'm going to have a chat. You know, I'm gonna have a chat with you. Let's just do this. Like we're at a coffee shop. I do that, I do say that. Sometimes I'll say to people, we're at a coffee shop right now. But internally, I make the choice. I don't say it to them there was communication, I say to them, let's have a nice conversation. But the internal conversation I have is I'm going to listen to them like they're the most genius person in the world. And they have something to tell me. And when I heightened my awareness of what they're going to say, it helps me to ask better questions, it helps me to ask smarter questions. It prompts me in a different way. I'm more engaged and more aware. And that makes for a more interesting interview than if I just go over talking points with somebody.

Adam: Mental health is a topic deeply important to you. You’ve dealt with a suicide within your family. What can we do to protect and optimize our mental health?

Adrienne: I think it really comes down to those still quiet moments. Number one, you know, I'll spend time, even if I only have five minutes in the morning, but then throughout different times of the day. And I'll just sit and just breathe and practice this breathing exercise. Because I think so many times we go so fast, we don't realize how we haven't had a chance to slow down, we haven't had a chance to clear our deck, we haven't had a chance to process some of the emotions of the conversations that we're having throughout the day that can kind of leave us feeling drained. Right, people don't mean to drain us, but conversations can affect our mental health because they're emotional, they're personal, they can be psychologically taxing. And so just taking five minutes, and just deep breathing in through your nose, out through your mouth, from your stomach, you know, from your gut. And just don't think about anything, put the electronics down. For me, I have to put my phone down at least once a day and just not look at it, maybe turn it off or unplug them because I will be glued to my phone and I think as much as a gift as phones have become they become a stressor and can kind of take us down a rabbit trail that we don't intend on. The third thing I would say for mental health is to make sure to stay in tune and in touch with the community, it can be very isolating to journey towards success. I found that it's you know, that's the statement, it's lonely at the top. Whether you're winning or whether you're climbing, you can self isolate without really realizing that you've cut off friends or they don't understand you. So they're not making as many calls. They don't realize that your silence or your busyness is a secret cry for help because you're just doing what you know to do because you want it so bad. And yet you can get out of balance in pursuit of your dream. And that can tax your mental health because we are not meant to be isolated and alone. We're meant to be among people. We're meant to have a tribe and a family. And so making it a to-do item just like your calendar items and your meetings to say I'm going to check in with a friend, I'm going to check in with a family member, because it's a lot harder to get out of a mental health battle by yourself. It's a lot easier if you have somebody there who notices you, who's in touch with you. Hey, I noticed you're, you know, let's go get our nails done. Let's go to a movie, let's go into the batting cages, let's go do the driving range, and it helps you kind of snap out of the funk. Because they're aware of what your normal baseline is and they know when things are a little off.

Adam: Relationships are so important, whether they're in good times, or in bad times. Getting out of bad times to make them into good times using relationships with friends, relationships with strangers, turning strangers into friends. How can anyone build winning relationships?

Adrienne: Oh, I like this question. Well, here's the first thing, be willing to change. You know, I think it's easy to say we're right. And that's it. And to just accept that, you know, listen, this is who I am. And if you don't like it… But I will tell you that one of the keys that I found in life is if you really want to become who you truly are if you want, what's inside of you, all the gifts, all the talents, all the deliverables that are on the inside of you to really manifest fully, you're going to have to be willing to change. I think that a lot of us are born with beautiful gifts that we can contribute to society, but over the course of life, we think it's our personality. But it's really our survival technique. We change, we transform based on the things that are done to us that can be considered harmful or traumatic. We self protect, we have defense mechanisms, and yet we call it this is how I am, I've always been like this. You can have stuff happen to you, as a child, most people today, no matter if they're 30, something 40, something 60 something, they are dealing with something that happened to them when they were 5, 6, 8 years old. It's the lingering effects of that thing. And so to build winning relationships, you have to realize there are things that you might say you own, that are a part of who you inherently are, part of your DNA. You have to be willing to see that that might not be true. And are you willing to submit so that you can become who you were always meant to be?

Adam: Adrienne, I love it. And the themes that you're sharing with listeners are themes that are essential to great leadership, self-awareness, self-confidence, knowing who you are, before you can effectively lead others, you need to be able to lead your own life. And to that end, what do you believe are the key characteristics of a great leader? And what can anyone listening do to become a better leader?

Adrienne: Well, when you are a leader, you know that there are certain things that you are simply not going to be able to partake in. There's a statement that I have had different people in my life give to me. And the statement is, others may, I may not. Others may, I cannot, you know, it's kind of like your mommy, when, if you had a mom who said something like if everybody jumped off the roof are you going to jump off the roof? To be a great leader, you have to be willing to know that you are not allowed. Or you will not allow yourself to participate in the same things that other people will participate in. You know, there are some disciplines that you are going to have to instill in your life and in your schedule in your routine that will disallow you from participating in certain activities. And it can be as simple as waking up at 1:00 in the morning. I'm not allowed, as a leader of this show, to stay out past 7 pm. That would be breaking, betraying my unconscious, betraying my own call and duty to be a leader in that space. And that's just a basic example. But we all know those things that we're tempted to do, or that we would love to do if it was so easy. But I think that we have to recognize the responsibility that we have as leaders. And then I'd also say that a big part of being a leader is realizing how much weight we carry. We have to recognize the weight that we carry not as a burden, but just as a privilege, that what we say and what we do affects other people, and we have more eyeballs on us. And so seeing ourselves, again, as role models, as influencers, you know, that term is thrown around a lot right now, influencers. It just means that more people are looking at you. But to know that there comes with that duty, ascribe wisdom to know what to do and when to do it and to have more confidence in that. Because I think a lot of people are nervous about leadership. They don't know what they're going to do once they get into a certain situation. But when you realize that with that leadership, with that decision to say yes, I'll step up. That with that responsibility comes the ability to actually make the decisions that would be best for that situation. But we have the possibility of effecting great change and great culture when we have the confidence in ourselves to know that we will have the answer when we need it.

Adam: Lead by example. So important.

Adrienne: And I say lead on the offense, not on the defense, you know, when you're on the defensive team, all you're doing is trying to get the other team to not gain ground, you are in a protective stance. But when, you know, you're carrying, I say, when you know you're in possession, and you have a whole different mindset on the field, as the team that knows that they're going to score. And so by leading while on the offense, not on the defense, you know, you're carrying with you, you have everything you need to score. And I think that that's important, because a lot of us lead and make decisions on the defense because we've been through so much. We've been through so much pain, we've been through a bad experience with a previous team or with a previous boss or the previous job. And we'll take that baggage with us and are just trying not to lose any more ground. So then it's almost like we're on the field, in our business, in our industry, or in our endeavor, and we're just trying to prove something, or we're just trying not to get hurt again, or we're just trying to, you know, add to the number of like, awards on our back shelf, but lead by the offense, and know that you have everything you need to succeed as long as you know that you're winning. And you are because you're about to score.

Adam: Can you share with listeners one of those tough moments, one of those moments of pain and difficulty? We've all had rough points in our lives, rough points in our careers. Can you share with listeners, a failure that you had, and how you were able to overcome it, and how anyone listening can overcome the rough patches, in their lives and in their careers?

Adrienne: Well, the biggest failure and the one that I talk about most frequently now, I didn't at first was when I endeavored to negotiate a contract with a television network that failed. And so I wanted to make sure I was being valued enough. And I was in negotiations with them. And negotiations fell apart, the deal was taken off the table. And my mentor Phil, he was like, Adrienne, I just know you're supposed to work. And I know cream rises to the top, and you have to be willing to do anything it takes. If you believe this is your dream, then you will be willing to do whatever it takes no matter how hard it is. And so I ended up moving to a new city knowing nobody and having no job. I took a freelance job at the same network, they were only able to offer me a freelance position. Then I took a job as a hostess at a restaurant, making minimum wage. So I'm on TV, and I'm making minimum wage at a restaurant every week. And it was the most excruciating time and then, you know, I thought, you know, gosh, like this is the lowest of the low. This is not what I expected to be doing at this age, at this stage in my life. And I was the hostess. So I saw the names of every guest who came in and lo and behold, the person who I was negotiating with when it all failed, was coming in for lunch. And I thought oh my god, what am I going to say? What is she gonna say? What are you doing here? And I went in the coat closet I'll never forget, I went in a coat closet. And I said, what am I going to say to this woman when she says what are you doing here? And the words came up in my heart. Well, I'm a host on TV, and I'm a host here. And so she came in and exactly like clockwork, her eyes got as big as saucers when she saw me because she didn't expect to see somebody that she negotiated with, for a television network job to be serving for lunch or going to show her seat. And I said to her, what are you doing here? I said, well, I'm a host on TV, and I'm a host here. Let me show you to your seat. And as we're walking, she said, you know, I've been thinking about you and I have some ideas. Is it okay to call you later this week? And I said, absolutely. And I walked away from that table with as much dignity as I could muster. And you know, it was no shame for me to be working as a hostess at a restaurant. But it was humbling for me because I had already made very good money doing my job working in major markets. And it was like, like, you know, gosh, it was like a fall. And so I don't see it as a failure because within a week and a half, I had a new contract for a full-time gig with that network. And it was like everything had been restored that I had lost. And so I never would have had that opportunity had I not taken a job as a hostess at a restaurant, because I really believe she saw me in a different light. And I believe it taught me that no matter what anybody else says about you, no matter what failures you have, what is meant for you will come back around to you. I tell that to people all the time, maybe it won't happen the first time. But if it's really meant for you, it'll come back around at a different time. And you just better be ready to say yes, when that door opens again. And so thank goodness it did, but you have to overcome by being willing to do whatever it takes, even if it means doing something that seems, you know, less than what you expect, or, quote, unquote, beneath you, I say to people, there's nothing wrong with working at a restaurant, I’d do it today if I had to.

Adam: And no matter what, no matter how tough, the times may seem, no matter how difficult things may be, no matter how low, you may appear to be on your luck, no matter what you were doing, regardless of where you were, you were still able to make it happen. And to anyone listening, believe in yourself.

Adrienne: Yeah, it's true. Because the words that you speak about yourself are more important than anybody else's words. And if you truly do believe in yourself, there's nothing that can stop you. But just remember to be kind to those along the way, you know, I was, you know, kind to the people I worked with, at that restaurant, I was kind to the executives that I negotiated with, I made sure that that was my reputation because I could have been spicy, you know, I could have been jaded, and I refused, because I knew that that would sink my ship. And so in those moments of humility, which can be the greatest moments of your life, you actually build the character that you need to sustain when you rise again and believe in yourself, yes, but make sure to believe in someone else enough to trust them and to listen to them. Because they'll be your biggest cheerleader, the people that you honor and the people you believe in and call heroes are the people who will be there to lift you up when you stumble. So it's good to have that support when you need it most.

Adam: I love that. Adrienne, what can anyone listening do to become more successful personally and professionally?

Adrienne: I just really think I go back to being the word that I use, teachable. You know, I think that a lot of people think they've figured it all out or they know best because they do believe in themselves. You know, I believe in myself, I know what I'm doing. But again, you want to be in a place where you're actually listening more than you're talking. That's how you succeed today. Customer service is the game-changer, I think, in retail because, you know, anybody can be a retail success story online, but you're competing with some of the biggest companies on the planet. But if I have a great customer service experience, then that referral, that trust that you built in me as a customer, I'm going to tell all my family, I'm going to tell all my friends, I'm going to bring all my friends back. I just think that we need to think about life like that. You know, it's really your bedside manner. We have smart people in the industry that we most rely on right now. We have teenagers who can become millionaires on social media. But it's how you treat the people along the way that makes you stand out. You know, you can't just chase the almighty dollar, people are going to remember you, you're going to be memorable based on how you treated them. So to be a success, stand out by being the best version of you, which is the kindest version of you. And you'll never have a problem getting a meeting, you'll never have an issue trying to connect with people. It might take you longer than you planned. But eventually somebody is going to open the door because they remember you. You can forget a whole lot of people who just happen to have some money or a whole bunch of followers, but she'll always remember, like, I think. it was Maya Angelou who said, how you made people feel.

Adam: Adrienne, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Adrienne: Thank you for having me out. Oh, it was nice to talk to you. You have such a nice voice.

Adam: Thank you. Thank you for being kind to me.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

Follow Adam on Instagram and Twitter at @adammendler and listen and subscribe to Thirty Minute Mentors on your favorite podcasting app.