I recently interviewed celebrity chef Andrew Zimmern on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is a celebrity chef and an Emmy Award winner. Andrew Zimmern is the creator, host, and star of numerous, highly popular food, television, web, and radio shows, and is the recipient of James Beard Awards. Andrew, thank you for joining us.

Andrew: Great to be here.

Adam: Great to have you on. You grew up in New York. And in many ways, it was the best of times and the worst of times. As a kid, you were exposed to unique cultural opportunities and unique cultural influencers, including James Beard. But you also dealt with a lot of adversity, including adversity at home. Can you take listeners back to your early days, what early experiences and lessons most significantly shaped your worldview and shaped the trajectory of your success?

Andrew: Well, I love the Dickens reference, because I don't know that anyone really lives an ordinary existence. I don't think human beings are ordinary at all. I don't want to sound like a greeting card. But all of us are snowflakes, thumbprints, whatever cliche you want to use, and I don't think anyone's life is linear or dull. And I mean, that in the sense that as human beings, life is fired at all of us at point-blank range. We all lose parents, kids get sick, we get fired from a job we love, we get hired into a job we love. The ebb and flow of life is filled with immense challenges, incredible sadness, very high highs, very low lows. That is the fabric of life and how you navigate that and how you match calamity with serenity, I think is the great challenge there. And also how you match an even-keeled humility to the great successes that happen in anyone's life. And that being said, some of us endure some higher highs and lower lows, that from a public perception standpoint, fall into sort of like that, worst category. On the high side, I was born into a life of privilege on the Upper East Side of New York. So I was able to travel around the world four times five times before I was 18 years old because my father was part of an international ad agency and traveled a lot for work. And we'd like to travel for pleasure as a family, my father loved to ski in Europe and go eat in European capitals. So when I was 6, 7, or 8 years old, I was sitting in a sleepy little fish house on the Grŵps of Lleol in Paris picking these tiny little snails out of their shells of the long pick that had been steamed in white wine and chilled and the typical sort of freebie snack the way that peanuts are thrown onto a bar top in a plastic bowl for people who are looking for a shot and the beer in the middle of the day. So I had that kind of lifestyle on one hand and on the other hand, a child of divorce. My mother had a horrific accident in a hospital. She was the victim of some medical malpractice and was in a coma for several months. And then in a mental institution for years while they tried to bring her back to a functioning way of life, which they were able to. But she was a changed person after she emerged from that coma completely different than the mother that I knew for the first 13 years of my life. And between those two very sort of broad issues, and having a workaholic parent that was part of the greatest generation whom my father told me, we ignored feelings, we stuffed them down, we puffed out our chest and stuck out our chin and much different than the way I told my child to deal with feelings. And I don't blame my parents for any of those attitudes that they espoused. That was how they learned from their families of origin. And at a very young age, 13 years old, I tried pot in summer camp that year my mother had her accident. I had always stolen sips out of my father's scotch and soda when he wasn't looking just as some kids are just curious about those things. I didn't know that inside of me was a little addict, alcoholic, and waiting. Knowing what I know now, I clearly was looking for a way not to be feeling what I was feeling from a very early age. And so, finally, the straw that broke the camel's back was the events of my mother's hospital visit. My father basically told me this was the last time we'd talk about it. We're just going to tough this out because that's how he dealt with phase. And I was 13. My parents were divorced. My dad went down to the house that he lived in, and I returned to my mother's apartment alone with a minder, a nanny there, as well as someone else to cook and clean. Basically was a latchkey kid, I spent more time at my parents, friends' houses, and my friend's houses than I did at the house on 71st Street, where I was raised. My mother eventually returned to my senior year in high school, I immediately wanted to get rid of the feelings that I was feeling. I knew what drugs and alcohol would do. So by the time I was off to college, I was exhibiting that hyper-responsibility and irresponsibility of any good addict. I got into a good school, I was class president, and I got good grades. I was a clever chap. On the other hand, by the time I graduated high school, I was a regular cocaine user, pill user, pot smoker, and drinker. I tried heroin a bunch of times and really liked it. Those experiences created a very tumultuous next half decade for me, I got thrown out of school three times and allowed back in three times. My addiction to alcoholism exploded. I was lucky to graduate college, I was lucky to live through college. And at the same time, whenever I was told to take some time off, I "got my shit together", and went off to Europe and cooked. When I was 14, my father told me there was no more allowance, you had to get a job. So I started working in restaurants at night. I wanted to be getting high during the day, flirting with girls, swimming in the ocean, and doing summer stuff. And then at night, I wanted to cook and I had a talent for it. That was clear. I've loved to cook since I was five years old. I gardened with my mother. We didn't call it foraging. But I went clamming and mushroom hunting and rose hip picking and surf casting and crabbing with my father. He loved to cook as well. And he loved to eat. And so I was a little food freak by the time I graduated high school as well. So the die was cast pretty early on and all throughout the 80s as I was on one hand, exhibiting a very large, upward trajectory in my chosen profession, and very successful in New York during the 80s, as well, publicly and professionally amongst my peers, my addiction in my alcoholism was growing and raging and growing and raging to the point that it became uncontrollable. And so by the time my 20s were over, I was homeless living in an abandoned building, pouring common cleanser around a dirty pile of clothes every two or three days so the rats and roaches in the abandoned building that I was squatting with another half dozen alley drunks wouldn't crawl over me after I passed out in the evening, and I thought that was okay. And during that year, in that building I stole to support my habits, to get the food when I needed it. Took meals in Salvation Armys when I needed it when I was feeling saccharin and maudlin enough on Thanksgiving and Christmas, and I wound up just being a street person, a user of people, and a taker of things. Unemployable fired from every job that I had earned, and unfriended by the people who loved me the most. When I finally became homeless, my family and closest friends thought I was dead. Most were shocked when I resurfaced a couple of days before my intervention that wound up catapulted me into the second part of my life in January 1992. So yeah, the beginning of my life was filled with some pretty incredible highs and some pretty monstrous lows. But it certainly was the type of forged-in-fire journey that I think for those that survive, is an incredible benefit to them later in life.

Adam: Andrew, you shared so much there to unpack. A line you shared right off the bat. None of our lives are linear. Something that I've come to learn not only from my own journey but from my conversations with hundreds and hundreds of the most successful people across all fields. There is no such thing as a linear path to success. There are highs, there are lows, there are ups, there are downs. In some cases, those highs are higher, those lows are lower. They may be more public for some than for others. How were you able to navigate the lowest of lows? And what advice do you have for anyone listening to this conversation on how they can overcome the failures, setbacks, obstacles, and challenges that they face, in their lives and in their careers?

Andrew: I think the one sentence that I never used until three or four days before I sobered up, that I wish I had learned, was told to me 1000 times. But I never used the sentence, I never learned to use the sentence if I don't know how to blank. Can you help me? None of us know everything. And for those of us who are struggling, and we all struggle with something, I still struggle with things, I'm terrible at finances for example. I can't manage $1 in my wallet, I mean, I really am that bad. So it's crucial that I ask people for help. I don't know how to do a budget for myself, can you help me? I don't know how to talk to my child. Can you help me? I don't know how to manage other people. Can you help? Whatever the situation might be for you as a human being. There is humility in that that is necessary for our personal growth. But every human being I've ever met loves being asked for help. As human beings, we are instinctively geared to want to stroke our own egos and feel like we're being of service to another human being. That's our purpose on planet Earth. Our purpose is to be of service to other human beings. Asking for help is a sign of strength, not weakness. And I've never met someone who's not willing to give it. Some people may only have five minutes, some people may want to mentor you for the rest of your life. But everyone when you approach them earnestly will provide it because it's how we're hardwired as human beings.

Adam: I love that. Asking for help is a sign of strength, not weakness. Don't be afraid to ask, don't be afraid to put yourself out there. One of the things I do, when I give talks to different audiences, is share a list of the key characteristics of the most successful leaders that I've been able to draw from all the interviews that I've done. And on that list are two qualities that you dove into. Humility and self-awareness. Essential to succeed as a leader essential to succeed as a human being

Andrew: 100% There, I don't think there's there's any replacement for it. From those two basic principles, literally stems almost everything else that I can think of that has been a hallmark of the successes that I've had in life. And I'm not talking about necessarily about material successes. I'm talking about emotional development, personal development that allows one to not let the grind dominate how they think and feel. You turn into a bitter morass of self-pity and resentment as a human being. If all you did was let all the bitterness in life overwhelm you without a solution to handle that. The sun is going to come up tomorrow and it's going to be a different day. And if life took a big crap on you today, tomorrow it may deliver a chocolate bonbon to your doorstep. You do not know what's going to happen 15 seconds from now, I can't tell you how many times I've been in the best mood ever. Yay me, something fabulous happened. I get out of the car. I walk in the door and I'm confronted by a situation on the home front that it's like a baseball bat to the knees. If life is fired at point-blank range in the blink of an eye everything changes and it is extremely, extremely important that we all develop over the course of our lives, the earlier the better, a mechanism personal to you, that allows you to sort of even out by the highest highs and the lowest lows, so that you can be of service to other people. And in doing so your own life becomes better. And I think helping anyone navigate through fear in their lives, is that that piece of leadership, that you're talking about it very specifically, look, yeah, we don't like to be a little more humble in the highs. But I've never had someone go through horrific situations based on how good they feel about themselves. Most typically, where we learn the most is from tragedy, and navigating that and being able to help someone manage fear, free-floating anxiety, and other things associated with those scarier moments in life, is what's so vitally important. When I'm mentoring people, what are the things that I try to tell them most often, especially when they are completely bereft is being able to honestly say, I don't know what to say to you right now. I've never had that experience, because we don't all have the same experiences. So I don't like to make stuff up. But I do remind them, that the evidence that's right in front of me is that we have survived 100% of our worst days. And the sun is going to come up tomorrow. And it is that innate ability within ourselves to bring the temperature down enough so that we can see tomorrow. That's of vital importance.

Adam: I love it. You shared a lot that I want to dive into. Before I do, I want to ask you more about your journey to the top, you mentioned that you started cooking when you were 14. And by the time you were in your 20s, you were thriving professionally. You've reached the pinnacle of success in your field. How have you been able to attain greatness? And what can anyone do regardless of whatever they're pursuing to attain greatness?

Andrew: Well, I think number one, it's how you define it. For a lot of people, it's holding down a job, putting in your 30 years, having the love and respect of the people around you, and being able to share that and raise a family. Some people choose public-facing careers, politicians, actors, comedians, and chefs. But within those spheres, there's the local and the unknown. And then there's the very public-facing and the node. And I think life kind of puts you at hinge moments I'm lucky that I was sober and aware to recognize what those moments were. And I'll give you a very specific example in my life. I started cooking when I was five years old with my grandmother, I had enough skills that I learned from her that by the time I was eight, or nine, when I was cooking with my parents, they let me use a knife under supervision obviously. By the time I was 11 or 12, I was allowed around a burner and hot liquids sort of going through the safety triage in the cooking development of a young person. And when I was 14, I got my first job, my first paycheck working in a restaurant. And I had the skill set. And it turned out I also had some natural ability. So I quickly realized, wow, I'm at the same skill set level that some of these older people in the kitchen or at, but I'm just a kid. So I was not able to manage my own ego. But I learned later in life how to do that. Because we all have to be teachable. I still walk into kitchens today and ask people to help me or what they're doing and can they show me that technique or that trick? We all can learn something every single day, especially in whatever we choose to do professionally or as an avocation. But I was working in a restaurant. I opened a place here in Minneapolis after I sobered up and it was a very successful restaurant. And I believed very much in the power of storytelling when I was cooking. I had never journaled before but when I got sober, it impressed upon me the power of actually writing down my thoughts. And I just thought it was an assignment. One of the benefits of writing stuff down is the word story kept coming No. And I realized about five, six years into this very successful French restaurant, that I had a lot of stories to tell, but my audience was too small. That was a personal decision for me. And I had to sit with that for a year. I knew it in my heart, but I didn't know what it meant. I actually didn't know what to do with that piece of information. So I did the thing that I talked about before, that I had learned right before I sobered up, but I started asking people for help. I'll help you understand this. I feel like I have more to tell. I feel like a restaurant is too small for my storytelling. I feel like I wanted to work in food. But it doesn't necessarily have to be what winds up on a plate that someone is buying. Now, this was 1996. I just want to boundary this for people Food Network, I think was born that year, maybe 95. There was no food TV. The way that we understand it today, there were the magazines, food wasn't the thing that it is today. But I knew that there seemed to be a hinge event going on as a lover of history. I guess I was aware of it intrinsically. Somehow, I had honed my spidey sense. It was in talking to other people because I asked for help. That led me to believe that I could always go back to cooking. But maybe things were changing the landscape of the food world at large. So I quit my job, I sold my half of the partnership back to my partner, my sous chef took over the kitchen, and I had three months' worth of savings. So I knew I could do internships for three months. And I went to the local glossy magazine, and I went to the local, the biggest radio station in town and I went to the biggest TV station in town. And I said, I'd like to intern, I'd like to do food on TV. And at the radio station, I said I'd like to do a food radio show. And at the magazine. I said, "Look, you guys do a little restaurant review every month, and you do another little piece. But the food is getting really big. And I think there's more room for food writing in your local glossy monthly." Well, the local glossy monthly said yes right away. Someone had written something on a board a long time ago, expanding the food section. And so here was someone who was willing to do it for free. The radio station and the TV station said take a hike. But I don't take no for an answer. So I went to another radio station and another TV station. They said to take a hike. But the third one I went to said okay because I was free. And so I started doing TV and I started doing radio, and I started writing for this magazine. And I did it for pretty close to the 90-day mark, I used up all of my savings. And by the time that 90 days was up, I went to all three of them. Well, I put into practice what I had learned in my recovery life, which is don't lie, be honest. So rather than trying to gain them, or manipulate them, I just told them the truth. I said I'm out of money. I took this so I could learn. I think I've become valuable enough for you to see what I can bring to this. I'd like to get a job here. I'd like you to just start paying me for what I'm doing. And I would love it if I could expand my role here. And all of them said the same thing. Keep doing what you're doing. We can't expand your role here. And we can't give you a full-time job. But let me get back to you tomorrow. I'll tell you what we can do. And basically, all of them gave me a part-time job. So I had three part-time jobs. And over the course of the next six to nine months, I wound up getting more work from each of them to the point where I had my own radio show on Saturday mornings exclusively devoted to food with local food companies sponsoring it on a radio station here. I was doing live local news doing three appearances a morning on our local morning show and shooting packages for the nighttime news. Local, of course. The magazine expanded my work immensely. They basically said here's a small amount of money but write as much as you want every month. So I just knew that strategically. That was my place to dive in. And that was that hinge event where it's like okay, now it's time to be strategic. I can sort of push the competition away and sort of be the food guy in Minneapolis and then the food guy in Minnesota, and then the food guy in the upper Midwest. And then when I did that, I found that I was getting jobs on national TV shows. I was a regular on the HGTV show and another show that was syndicated. And I took the tape from those shows. I put together a tape and I started pushing it and one of those pieces of tape wound up getting me in the door with a chance to sell a show on a travel channel with the worst title of all time, The Wandering Spoon. But that show wound up becoming Bizarre Foods. And everyone loves Bizarre Foods on the network. It just wasn't hitting the number for them. But in episode three, the one that didn't pop a big enough number that the network would see growth, it was our first Ecuador show for Bizarre Foods. And because I'm curious, we hadn't planned on shooting with a local witch doctor who performed exorcisms, but I thought wow, this is really fun. Let's see what he does. Because I didn't believe in it. And so we paid this guy 20 bucks and he performed an exorcism on me. And it was very brutal. Physically, he beat me up with these branches that caused my whole body to break out in welts. He took live animals and beat them against my chest, these guinea pigs until they died. He spat up all over me. He poured this homemade grain alcohol over me. He lit me on fire. He hit me. I mean, it was really crazy. And what he was trying to do was to draw the evil spirits out and kill them in these inanimate objects like this now-dead bunny. It was just a wild scene. I mean, you could still google it. It's a crazy piece of footage. So the phone rings on Wednesday, and it's the bookers from the Tonight Show with Jay Leno. And they're like, "Hey, we saw this piece of tape from Monday night. Would you like to be on The Tonight Show this Thursday?" Well, it's Wednesday. I can't get there in time. I said, "But I could be there Friday." And they said, "Great. We'll call you back." "Call me back. Sure." So Thursday morning, I hopped on a plane. I was on The Tonight Show. I did great. Jay invited me back. They played the clip, we talked about his food life, and my food life. I said a couple of funny things, and the audience liked me. Suffice it to say the following Monday, the ratings for Episode Four were off the charts. They had never seen a number like that on the Travel Channel. They immediately bought another season, we found our audience. And being a success on the Jay Leno Show was a big deal as a career maker. And if it wasn't for that appearance on the Jay Leno Show, I wouldn't have the career I have. But objectively the advice that I give to anyone when I tell them that story isn't be good on The Tonight Show. Keep practicing your craft, and be good. Do your research, and do your homework. So in those moments where we're called upon to perform, to help someone to transfer some wisdom or whatever, we have something to give. Sometimes it's big and public-facing most of the time it isn't. When I'm dead and gone, nobody will remember my appearance on The Tonight Show and nobody will give a shit at all. But the people in the village in Africa that I've spent years working to bring electricity to and to help them diversify their food resources with the World Food Program, with the work that I do there, will remember me in that town. You do things in life, as Maya Angelou famously said so that people remember how you made them feel. The autographed pictures that you give people will be taken down from refrigerators and the awards that I've won will be long forgotten, but the people I've worked with, my family, and the people that I've done service work for around the world, the young men and women that I've mentored over the course of my career will remember me and that's why we do those things. It's why we help people and we prioritize people over things. And at the same time, if you want a big audience, you've got to be ready for big moments.

Adam: What you do when the lights are off defines who you are when the lights are on.

Andrew: 100%. Personal habits, what is the old homily? Consistency over time equals success. It really is true, all the stuff that we need to be successful. We've already learned by the time we're 10 years old, it's just how much we listen to it. I tell people that human beings are kind of like lamps. We walk around sort of holding our own cord, looking for a receptacle to plug into to get the electricity so we shine bright. But by the time we're 10 years old, we've heard it all from our parents. Show up on time, be a good kid, share what is given to you, all that kind of stuff. Everything we need to know we've already learned. We need to find places to practice it, and to keep practicing it throughout our life. And then eventually, you get old enough, you can look back and say, oh, yeah, I was on that Tonight Show, not because I created a show called Bizarre Foods. It was because I had put in the hours cooking and I paid attention to traveling. And I had sobered up. Instead of killing myself one day at a time, I started living one day at a time. And I started asking for help. And I started taking advice from other people. And I started practicing patience, tolerance, and understanding with myself and then with others. As a result of all of those things, I wound up being put in a position where I could walk through the door and had the benefit, with a lot of luck, by the way of walking through that door and making a difference and doing something impactful.

Adam: Andrew, among the many lessons that I took away from what you shared, he shared a lot, be teachable. Learn something new every day. Take risks, take chances, follow your gut, follow your heart. Don't be afraid to start at the bottom. Don't take no for an answer. Be open, be honest, and be vulnerable. Don't be afraid to ask for help. Don't be afraid to ask for guidance, support, for advice. Push yourself, set big goals, and redefine your goals as you go. Success takes time. But it requires desire, focus, passion, dedication, and maybe most importantly, agility. Keep practicing your craft, and do your homework. And something that you shared, which I love, pursue something that you're passionate about and pursue something that allows you to make a positive impact in the lives of others. That's what it's all about.

Andrew: You've summarized it beautifully. It's interesting listening to you, I realized that the one thing that I think would be valuable for people to remember is that most people who are very successful are not the best at what they do. They are usually the only at what they do. And that applies to everyone. I would rather be an only than a best. And I'll give you a really great example. He's no longer with us. He's since died. But growing up in New York City, I mean, I love hot dogs. When I moved to Minnesota 32 years ago, when I would go into visit, by the time I could afford to regularly visit New York, I was already a dad. And of course like every Dad, you're trying to fill up your kid's day in New York City. And one of the great places to take any young kid is the Museum of Natural History. And after we left the museum one day, we looked at all the hotdog vendors that were outside, there was only one guy that had a line. And you could see clusters of working people eating one hotdog and then getting back online to order another one. And so it was obvious to me. That's the guy who's hot dog I want to try, he's got a line. Go where there's a line. That guy's got something on the ball. And as I got closer, all the other hot dog vendors were kind of standing by their stands, waiting for people to show up. This guy had a beat-up old radio, a little transistor radio, a long antenna, and literally the wire hanger at the end of it stuck in the end to get him some better bandwidth. And he had the classical music station, WNYC in New York, on and he was playing loud classical music. And he was kind of like humming along and kind of making a show of the exaggerated motions grabbing the bun in the hotdog and making these little pickles up on the top row that he would offer to customers. One was very spicy. One was sweet and sour and one was sweet. And when I got closer, being a food guy, I could tell that he was Turkish. And I asked him, I said, "Do you make those pickles?" And he very proudly said, "No, my wife does and sends me with them each day." And I was like, I mean, who doesn't love those kinds of condiments on hotdogs and so I chose one or two of them and chose an unspicy one for my kid. And I built into it and it was the same hotdogs that everyone else has. Except he had found a way with the music his attitude and his showmanship. And yes, those little pickles to be offering what my friend will get Dara*35:23 calls, unreasonable hospitality to his customers. And so even a hot dog vendor where literally the soubrette people send them out with the same buns, the same dogs, the same sauerkraut, the same mustard, he found a way to be the only and so he was making more of a success of himself than his other hotdog selling compatriots were. And I've never forgotten that and it made me desire in life, not to necessarily be the best. I don't know how to be the best at something I don't even know how to begin to start to be the best at something and I've never been the best at whatever I've done. But when I created Bizarre Foods, I tried to be an only. Everyone else was telling stories about chicken in the middle of the plate. I wanted to be as far away from chicken as I could. Let me tell stories based on foods on the fringe. Those are way more interesting to me. And so I carved out a niche for myself. And from there, I was able to grow much better to be the only than to be the best.

Adam: Andrew, I really love that. Instead of focusing on being the best at what you do, focus on being the only at what you do. Andrew, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Andrew: I appreciate it. Have a great rest of your day.


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one-on-one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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