I recently interviewed award-winning actress Bellamy Young on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: I have interviewed many major political leaders, but today I'm joined by a fictional political leader and a highly successful actress. Bellamy Young was a star on the hit TV show scandal, where she portrayed the first female president of the United States, and won a Critics Choice Award. Bellamy, thank you for joining us.

Bellamy: Oh, Adam is so happy to be here. Thank you for the cool conversations you always have. And thank you for letting me be in one of them today.

Adam: Appreciate you being here. You grew up in Asheville, North Carolina, and you went to Yale on a scholarship as a physics major. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What early experiences and lessons shaped your worldview and shaped the trajectory of your success?

Bellamy: Oh, my goodness, thank you. And dialing back the clock today, it seems so long ago. Like you say I grew up in Asheville. And when I think about growing up, it was singing that was always a part of my life. It was my solace and my therapy, the place I could go both to hide and to show myself. So when I think about my childhood, I can't think about it without music. And soon thereafter, as soon as I looked up at the stars in North Carolina, where you can see a galaxy there, I began to wonder about science. And it's a wonder that stayed with me all my life. And I was the daughter of a teacher and an accountant. And I just began to study science and whatnot and found that I loved it. So when it came time to apply to colleges, I wanted to go to Yale because they had these acapella singing groups. And I could study what I loved so much. And I was like, oh, that'll be great. And I was excited to get out of North Carolina, because you're a teenager, and you just think anywhere else will be better than where you are. So I applied for early admission, and they waitlisted me. And I thought they were just being polite. Because I was southern, there was a sort of letting me down easy, it was the only place I applied. And over the Christmas holidays, I applied to 12 more schools and redid my whole Yale application. They eventually let me in and I went there proudly, ready to learn everything there was about the mysteries of the universe at large and small. Turns out I'm not great at physics on the international title. Turns out I have a real love for it, but that other people have aptitudes that far exceed mine. And so my singing was nourished wonderfully. And my acting, all of that that I'd come up doing avocationally in North Carolina, as you do at church or in pageants, or wherever in the south. But academically, I realized I had to pivot and I did. Like I said, I'm the daughter of an English teacher and working with literature, really breaking down beautiful, either poems or prose or articles and newspaper, my mom just passed and I have to say she was one of the best teachers I ever had. I am very fortunate to be very well educated, but the way her mind shaped my mind, I got to step into that when I made that pivot from the sciences to an English major. I did a double major in English and theatre studies because I thought people might mistake it for my having gone to Yale School of Drama, but it wound up being an incredible time to meet the world.

Adam: You pivoted very early on in your journey. Everyone at some point pivots, many people pivot many, many times in their lives in their careers. Oftentimes, people pivot later on in their careers. Given your experience, going from this path of thinking you're going to be a scientist to realizing that your strength lies in a completely different area, what advice do you have for anyone listening on how to discover what it is that they're great at and ultimately pivot successfully?

Bellamy: I think we all had to remember that our now is not our forever, in both the way that sounds drastic, but also I hope emancipating. Just because I didn't graduate with a physics degree doesn't mean I didn't continue loving science. And just because I make my living now acting and singing, doesn't mean that I also don't pivot all the time. Of course, I think we neglect to value the fact that in any career that we have, every different person we deal with is a pivot. You're always reading the room and you got to change a little bit for this, you know what you want. So you know how a strategy might work over here that didn't work over here. So there are little micro pivots that we do instinctively, that aggregate to an enormous outcome, but from my own story to bring it back around now, during the strike last year, when there was no acting to do, one of my very dear friends and I wrote the first book in a YA sci-fi trilogy, because Fay, my dear friend Fay, is the person that I still nerd out and send all the science articles to, and she to me. And so we, for years, had this thriving love of all things scientific and we just happen to have come to a place in the world, where Brian Palmer had written his book about mitochondria and the New York Times had just written an article about robots, AI therapists. And I think the Washington Post had just done a big thing about projected 3d architecture on Mars. And those three back and forwards kind of came together and jolted us into an idea and a story took off. So I haven't come back not in a practical way, I'm not explaining the universe, or I haven't done the math to make it easier for other people to understand what's coming. But the love never leaves. So the pivot can pivot back and the pivot can transform into something else. And pivot sounds binary, I guess that's what I'll say. It sounds like one or zero. You're doing this, are you doing that? But I just really do think we should remember it more in terms of what happens when we physically pivot. We turn a little this way, or we turn a little that way. That doesn't mean we can't turn back.

Adam: I love it. Our now isn't our forever. We're always pivoting, we're always evolving, we're always growing, shifting, including sometimes moving into the direction that we may have once pivoted away from.

Bellamy: So we shouldn't be afraid of it, we should just stay curious. Follow your instincts turn a little this way, turn a little that way, and you're always going to learn something, wherever you look. And whenever you turn in the next direction, you'll bring that with you.

Adam: You trusted your instincts, you followed your gut, your gut told you to follow my passion for singing, and acting, and you pursued it. Incredibly competitive field. A field that most people feel, you've enjoyed incredible success. How?

Bellamy: I think everything looks different in hindsight. I didn't get my first study job till I was 40 something. I stay with the love and the curiosity. And I was successful enough that it was the only job I had to do. So for that, I am very lucky and very grateful. Because that's not always the case, either. But life is happening to us every moment. So yeah, I think that wherever you are, as long as you're curious and present, your instincts are going to lead you to the next step. And that's the only place you have to go. So I auditioned a lot. I studied a lot. I got work sometimes and I stuck to it. I did theater at first out of school. So I worked up through regional theater to Broadway and loved doing that. And then pivoted to soap operas and had a ton of fun doing that. And one day my agents said to me, "Are you ever gonna move to LA? Because you're too old to move to LA." I was like, "Thank you. What?" I was 30 and I moved out to LA and started over again in film and television because New York at that point wouldn't let you start over from musicals to TV and films were very bifurcated talent pool. So it has been a quest but worth it every second. And the great thing is, that some people are blessed with success very early. I think of maybe like Emma Watson. She was Hermione Granger in Harry Potter. That's defining when so many ways and there's a lot of effort that goes into redefining yourself more, just excavating out who you are from the ideas of you that everyone has put upon you. And she's done a marvelous job of that. No one could have done it better. But my work was more incremental. So I got to be a continual student. For years and years and years, different sets in LA, I was a guest star everywhere, Always a Bridesmaid, never a bride. But every time you go to any other place, you just learn everything about not just how to act, but how to be a person, how to be a person on set, and who you want to be in this life. So by the time I got a great job, Ben Eagle, I got that great job. I was just supposed to be there for two episodes, three episodes. Maybe I had two lines in the pilot, I was supposed to be there for three episodes. And it turned into seven years, and I was the president of the United States. So even when I got that job, I was just going to see my coach and work as hard as I could on the scenes that I had so I'd have good material for my reel. And then they just started writing for me and I got to stay around and it wound up changing my life. So all I can say is, do what you love, and love what you do because we only get one life. So stay where your heart is. Stay where your curiosity is.

Adam: Bellamy, you shared a lot of great lessons there. Do what you love, love what you do. Focus on the present. Focus on what you're doing right now. Give it your all, and be the very best that you can be. When you were on Scandal, you weren't written in as the star of the show. You were written in as someone who's going to be there for a couple of episodes. And what did you do? You didn't try to figure out how am I going to parlay this into becoming a bigger character on the show. You focused on crushing the lines of the scenes, and the role you had. And that ultimately allowed you to parlay it into this massive opportunity.

Bellamy: I'm still grateful. A lot of the other things that I learned are what you do matters, but who you do it with matters. That Scandal family in particular, it's a family of people and we have each other's backs to this day. And that comes from Shonda because she has a no-assholes policy. So she picked good people. That is the good thing about Shonda is that she curates who she wants to work with. So you have good people in the room. And I feel like you know when you walk into a room and you think, oh, the energy here is not great. And for me, great energy means people have the project's best interest at heart, not their own. It doesn't just mean on a TV show or whatever. It just means anything, anywhere, anytime, even if the project is our friendship. And when I walk into the room, I can feel where the energy is going. And so I'm always trying to be clear that I'm where I am supposed to be and where I want to be. And everybody that's in the room is hearted in that way. That's also been a great lesson and a great gift.

Adam: As you talk about Shonda Rhimes, one of the most successful TV producers today, you're not only describing someone who's been incredibly successful in the entertainment industry, but you're describing a great leader, someone who leads by putting in your words, the best interests of others at heart, not their interest at heart. That's what it takes to be a great leader.

Bellamy: Oh, yeah. And Kerry was like that too in terms of number one on the call sheet. She was the quarterback of our team. It wasn't, "I'm gonna ride up from the van and somebody else can say my lines on your coverage." First person on set, last person to leave, seven months pregnant, 17 hours a day, just there with her full heart. And that set the tone. I remember one time I think I knew exactly. It was season five. And GMA was going to do a special segment launching our fifth season premiere. Now we were in LA and GMA was in New York. So that meant that girls had to be here in makeup at two in the morning. We all had to be ready by 3:30-4 o'clock to be on camera for the East Coast. And the rest of us in our fear was like, it's so early and blah blah, just being small. And Kerry just gets in the way gone and getting her nails done and all that stuff at the other end of the trailer and there's a lull in the conversation. And she's like, "Well, I'm going to be here because I think it's cool that they want to support us in the fifth season. That’s not a new show. So I appreciate that. Then it was quiet and everyone was like, "Yes, that's right." And so just always helps to have the people you're looking up to be grounded. And when you're in a position where people are going up to you, you just have to remember how important it is to keep it grounded and keep your heart leading the way.

Adam: Leaders set the tone. Great leaders lead by example. You shared a great example of Kerry Washington, leading by example. Humility is essential to successful leadership. You played the President of the United States. What did you learn about leadership, from your experience, portraying the most powerful person in the world?

Bellamy: That's funny, I think when I look back on it, and just now you're asking me this. But I realize it is that adage of 90% listening, 10% talking. You have the best people around you. First of all, hopefully, you've chosen them well. You've curated good people that you can trust. They're knowledgeable in their field. So let them do their jobs and then listen and stand in your truth and your instincts about the decisions you make about how to move forward, how to move the whole team forward. Because it can't be about you. It can't be about ego. And you're not there alone. No one ever gets in the Oval Office or the seat of any power alone. So when they get there, if they act like they did, or are there alone, then that's sociopathy. So I think we all have to remember to surround ourselves with people we trust, and then rely on them and rely on our hearts at the end of the day.

Adam: Interestingly, you share that. So I've never interviewed a real President of the United States.

Bellamy:  Yet.

Adam: Not yet. I'm interviewing a fake President of the United States right now. I met another fake President of the United States. Way back in the day, I met Martin Sheen in a parking lot in LA.

Bellamy:  Oh, my God. It's such an LA story. I love it.

Adam: And I was trying to convince Martin Sheen to run for president. This was back in 2015. So dating myself a little bit here. But I have interviewed a lot of people who have worked very closely with lots of different presidents. And what you shared brought me back to many conversations I've had with people who have worked closely with President Obama, who have told me that the way that he led meetings, was very focused on bringing out the best advice from all the people around him. President Obama was, as a leader, as a president, highly intent on listening, highly intent on asking questions, highly intent on ensuring that all of his advisers who are the best people that he could find, brought their best advice to the table. And whether he acted on their advice or not, he listened.

Adam: Yeah. Because that's the only way you're informed. Nobody can know absolutely everything. And you want to hear dissenting opinions, and you want to hear opinions that support your instincts. Because you again, it's not about you, your ego can't make these big calls. The consensus of information and truth has to move the ball forward.

Adam: You've also done quite a bit of work in the Human Rights space. You are an ambassador to CARE where you've done several different missions. You went on a trip to Rwanda. You've spoken at the Human Rights Campaign dinner in your home state of North Carolina. What are the best lessons you've learned from all of your work around human rights?

Bellamy: That if we all just did a little bit, this whole world would get better. I feel like people are feeling very disempowered now and very isolated and a lot of that factors out of the lockdown and instead of conversations, we use our phones. Even though we might be in the room with someone, that connection, we sort of have forgotten the oneness. And I am reminded every time I'm in one of these situations, if I'm traveling, like you say, if I'm in Rwanda with CARE, I see a little difference of just pausing and being thoughtful, and not in a white savior away, because CARE is not a charitable organization, teach a woman to fish sort of organization. We all want to save ourselves. But we also all need to help each other save ourselves. We can't get out by ourselves. So that's what I've taken away from this. Just like with democracy, it's we the people, who have to participate. This is our one life. We have to participate, we have to help each other, we have to vote in elections, and we have to, when we see someone hurting, try and do something about it. Sitting alone in our rooms protected or unprotected is no way to fill a heart and no way to fill a life.

Adam: Take ownership of your life. Understand that we're all part of this broader community. And we have a responsibility to those around us. We have a responsibility to bring our best to the table every day and to try to uplift others however we can.

Bellamy: One thing that has meant so much to me and continues to mean so much to me is getting the word out about people taking control of their health. I'm thinking particularly of my adopted father who was diagnosed with cirrhosis. That diagnosis led to a diagnosis of overt hepatic encephalopathy, which at the time was nothing my family knew anything about and the doctors didn't know much about and we didn't understand what was happening to him. We had an idea about cirrhosis, but they didn't warn us that a disease that was happening in his liver, could progress to his brain. It could change his cognition, it could change his personality, it could change his physical comportment. We didn't know to look for signs. When it got very progressed, we went back to the doctor wondering if he had something else entirely wrong with him. Anyway, right now, I've gotten to partner with Salix Pharmaceuticals, because so much has changed. And so this is something that is meaning very much to me at the present moment because we get to get the word out that people have options. Now you can talk to your doctor, there is treatment. So it's opportunities like this that mean the most to me about a job and a life and a career that has been a blessing on every level. I enjoy every day of my life, never more so than when I'm getting to share it with people that I love. And something like this as a way to get to share it with people that I don't even know but also do love.

Adam: You just shared an incredibly tough moment that you've been able to turn into an opportunity to help people take control of their lives. We all face different obstacles, challenges, setbacks, failures, big and small. Thinking about your journey, lots of different auditions that you went on where you didn't get a roll, getting big rolls on big TV shows, on big networks. And then after a season or two, the show gets canceled. How do you deal with the failures, the setbacks, those tough moments? And what advice do you have for anyone listening on how to navigate the challenges that they face in their lives and their careers?

Bellamy: Well, it made me come back to the word pivot because I remember early on that I had to make a personal internal pivot about auditioning. I mean, it's a numbers game. Like dating, or applying for any job, you're gonna get a lot of nodes. And now looking back and having been on the other side of the table and producing stuff and helping cast up, now I know maybe you gave the best performance, but you're still not right for the part for several reasons, there's just so much more. We can't know, when we have hope in our hearts, we only know and hope. We aren't always looking at the full big picture of the puzzle and how our little piece of it fits in. But I had to make a pivot early on to just remind myself that as far as auditioning goes, that's the job. Auditioning is the job. Getting a job is a vacation. When I have a job, it is like the best spa I ever went to in the world. I get to do what I love. I'm with people I love and there's a lot of free food. And it's like acting silly all day, it's joy all day, but the job is auditioning. So what I do is I show up for the audition, I do my work, I get prepared and I focus on giving everything I can, and learning what I can about myself, working on that material, but also just in the room, vibing the room, always learning or now vibing the computer screen because it's so often remote at this point. And that also can keep you sane, because if you give away your power, the only way you feel like you did a good audition is if you got a job, or if the only way you think you gave a good interview is that they hired you, then that's gonna mess with your mind and worse, mess with your heart. So when you just keep track of yourself, you do your best to leave your best in the room, because you never know when it's going to come back around. The only reason I had scandal is because I had auditioned for wonderful Linda Lowy, who's been Shonda's casting director for 1000 years. I had auditioned for her for everything. Sometimes I got the job and sometimes I didn't. But Linda was there and Linda saw and Linda knew me and knew my work. And when it was the day before the role of Mellie Grant needed to work on this pilot and it only had two lines, she called in the five people she'd known forever. And I wound up being the one that won that lottery that day. And thank heavens because it was the ticket. But it wasn't because I was great. This was the first line, "Live." And then the second line, maybe had five words in it. But it wasn't like, oh, I crushed it with how I said the word live. No, I had just shown up all the other times for all the years before that. So now that just allows me to honestly have a little more fun. Because also, if you go into any sort of situation, thinking somebody knows more than you about what you have in your heart to give, then you've already lost. So every audition that I went in like, "Here's my read, did I do it right?" Gosh, they're waiting for you to have the answer. They don't have the answer yet. So now I go in and I give what I see in the material. I give my lived experience that might meet it, or best case scenario elevated a little bit. And it's right or it's wrong. But we meet each other and we see each other and maybe I'll see you down the line, maybe I'll see you on set next week. That all comes around.

Adam: So much great stuff there. Trust yourself. You walk into a room, you see a lot of people in that room. Regardless of the context, you could be auditioning for a role, you could be interviewing for a job, you could be giving a presentation, or you could be in a meeting with important people. And you might think these other people know more than I do. These other people have more authority, more power, more expertise, more this, more that. But at the end of the day, you're there for a reason. You're there to present, to perform, to be yourself. Trust yourself, be you.

Bellamy: Yeah. My stepfather's big line of advice was always, "Just be yourself and you'll be fine." He was a Southie, he was from Brockton. "Just be yourself, and you'll be fine." I'll be like, "All right, Pop."

Adam: And he was right. It's great advice. You mentioned that you won the lottery. But you can't win the lottery if you don't buy lottery tickets. And it comes down to showing up, being there, being present, and putting in the work. It's very easy to get lucky when you make your luck when you put in all of the blood, sweat, and tears that are required to attain success. So it's really easy to look at the end product and say, "Yeah, this happened because I showed up at an audition and I got lucky and anyone could have done this." But it wasn't the audition, it was all the work leading up to the audition.

Bellamy: And those blood, sweat, and tears don't hurt as much or taste as bad if you're doing what you love. Really, at the end of the day, if everybody gets the privilege of finding what they love in this life, I hope that there's time for that. And then once you are on that path, even the hard stuff is a joy because you know where you're going.

Adam: I agree with you 110%. Another thing you shared a couple of times so far in this conversation, which I also agree with 110%, approaching every experience as a learning experience, having a mindset of continual learning, and continual growth, and recognizing that not every experience is going to be a win, there are going to be a lot of losses along the way. But what can we learn from those losses? Are these losses going to be things that we walk away from and say, "Man, that was awful, brutal"? Or do we look at them and say, "Okay, it happens. What did I learn from it? How can I grow? How can I become better?" Something you shared earlier on in the conversation, which I thought was interesting talking about all of your time guesting on all these major TV shows, which I would imagine wasn't a loss by any means. I think that'd be a ton of fun. But you approached it as, "Wow, I'm in this position right now, in this moment. What can I learn? What can I absorb? What can I take away that will allow me to become better at my craft, that will allow me to become that much more successful in my next role?"

Bellamy: I agree with you. But it's also a self-esteem building, just to stay in a growth mindset. Because that way, as long as you're curious, you're always learning. Even if I'm an advertiser and I'm on the subway, I would be clocking to which ads people are reading. If you love it, there's always something to learn and no's are wildly informative. You will always learn more from a no than you will ever learn from a yes. Because the yes, who knows why that happened? But the no's, you usually get really good feedback on and it's usually very actionable. And whether it's from yourself and your heart, or it comes down the pike from whoever you were talking with or meeting with, there's just a lot of information there.

Adam: Bellamy, what can anyone listening to this conversation do to become more successful personally and professionally?

Bellamy: I would say at the end of the day, listening to your heart is where it all starts. If you're right with your heart, you and your heart are in one, then your heart will lead you where you're supposed to go. And it will be a joyful path. It won't feel exhausting to follow. "Oh no, I have to get up tomorrow and do the same thing again." No, you're like, come on. I can't wait. Let's get out there. I have a new idea. I want to try this. And you're like, oh, that didn't work. I'm gonna try this. So just stay curious. Stay engaged. Stay connected to your heart. Remember that we're all connected on this planet and enjoy your life.

Adam: Bellamy, thank you for all the great advice, and thank you for the fun conversation.

Bellamy:  Well, thanks, Adam. I have that pit sweat nervous stuff when you talk about your stuff. I'm so used to talking about projects or what I'm working on. So I have a little of those nerves, but I appreciate you giving me perspective on many things today and always, so thanks for that.


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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