I recently interviewed baseball legend Bernie Williams on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is a former Major League Baseball star, and New York Yankees legend. Bernie Williams is a five time all star, four time Gold Glove winner, and four time World Series champion. Bernie is also a professional musician, and has been nominated for a Latin Grammy. Bernie, thank you for joining us.

Bernie: Thank you so much for having me.

Adam: Bernie, you grew up in Puerto Rico. And as a kid, you played a lot of baseball, but you also played a lot of guitar. You signed a contract with the Yankees when you were 16 and you were playing in the Majors by the time you were 22. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What early experiences and lessons shaped your worldview and shaped the trajectory of your success?

Bernie: Well, thank you for asking. I had a great deal of influence from my parents. It was a perfect storm of two different worlds. My dad was a Merchant Marine. He spent a lot of his youth traveling all over the world. My mom was an educator in the public education system in Puerto Rico. And I guess the merge of those two mentalities. They have two kids, me and my younger brother. It was all about giving us opportunities, or exposing us to opportunities to be successful in the world by educating ourselves. Academics were very high in our house. And everything that came after that, namely sports and arts, were a well rounded type of education that my mom has sort of designed. But from that, my dad was on the wilder side, and he took us to all the sporting events. He took me and my brother every day after school, middle school, to the baseball field and teaching us how to play catch and hit and catch fly balls and all that. He was just basically teaching us some life lessons about discipline and commitment to the sport, and to do everything, trying to do everything, 100% and do it the right way from the get go. And I took those lessons to heart. Started training, first in various sports until I really learned that in baseball. By the time I was 16, I was good enough for scouts that were in Puerto Rico working for the Yankees to see me and offer me a contract to play in the Minor Leagues right after high school in Florida with the Yankees organization. So it took me about five and a half years to make it to the big leagues and 22 – Summer of 22 I  was called up, as they call it. And that was the beginning of a 16-year run with the New York Yankees in which I was a part of four championships and we went to the World Series (so-called World Series) about six times in my tenure.

Adam: It's one thing to sign with a Major League team, which very few people do. It's another thing to make it to the Majors, which even fewer do. But you're a superstar when you played over the course of your career. How were you able to attain that level of greatness at your craft? And what can anyone do to attain greatness in whatever it is that they're pursuing?

Bernie: I think there is something to be said about having that natural ability, or I think in my way of thinking, is just having something that you are interested in, and then just have the drive to keep working on it and spend those 10,000 hours. That is the average required to master a certain craft. So I did that, even though I did not know about the 10,000 hours, but I spent a lot of time working with a plan, working to be a better baseball player, working to be a better musician. That having a plan of action of preparation and just following through it and not letting any distraction be in the way. And then the second part of that component is just trusting that preparation, because there's a lot of people that spend so much time preparing, and then when the time comes up, they need to shine. They forget about all they have done to get to that moment. And it seems like nothing had happened before that. So I think that is a big, huge element and trust him preparation. And actually just telling yourself and having that mindset is on the fact that I put in the work, I gotta trust the fact that I have prepared to the best of my ability, and then let that natural God-given talent take over from that background from that backdrop of just knowing that you have put into work to perform to have great results.

Adam: It starts with having a natural ability, having a predisposition to excel at something. It's going to be very hard for someone like me, who doesn't have the best hand eye coordination, to be a Major League baseball player. I tried, but I topped out at being a mediocre high school basketball player. Focus on something that you have a natural predisposition for, something that you're passionate about, something that you're interested in. If it's something that you're not interested in pursuing, you're not going to want to put in the 10,000 hours, you're not going to want to go all in. And then you've got to go all in, you've got to put the time in. There's no shortcut to that 10,000 hours. Having a plan, not letting distractions get in your way, and that last point you made, trusting your instincts after you put all that work in, not overthinking things, but trusting your gut, going with it. Going with a pitch.

Bernie: Yeah, I think that's really important. I think a lot of people that have early success as they're young in one particular thing. Sometimes it can work to their detriment, because they maybe start thinking that maybe there's nothing else that I could take from this, maybe there's nothing else that I can learn from this, maybe I feel that I'm going to be as successful as I can be on this. And then I don't have to work any harder. But I think that is the complete opposite. Once you show that you have a certain ability in a thing, and then you have proven that you like it, first of all, and then that you are successful early, that should be your indication that you should spend a lot of time working on that craft and making sure that you can take that ability and that passion and that instinct up to your highest level that you can possibly can. And that's where the whole phrase comes from, where ‘Good luck is when the hard work meets preparation and meets opportunity.’ Once you are in a position where you have put all the work in, when you are in that position, then the opportunities will come and you will be ready to tackle them. And to be successful because you have put in the work. The saddest thing is just to be unprepared, when a once-in-a-lifetime situation comes your way. And because you haven't done the work that it requires to be in that position to take full advantage of that opportunity, it passes you by. And that repeats over and over and over with minor leaguers that think that they have it all made. And they haven't put that extra bit of work, and once they are faced with an opportunity to where they find themselves in it, because they're not fully prepared because they didn't feel like they needed to, they are unsuccessful and that might be the only time that they may have that opportunity to go their way. It's really sad to see at times.

Adam: So Bernie, is it fair to say that over the course of your career, you've seen lots of players, whether you've played with them or played against them, who you thought could have been great, but weren't because they didn't put the work in? And players who were superstars who became household names, and had that same level of talent or maybe a little bit less talent, but the difference was the dedication, the time?

Bernie: Yeah, I agree. I think it could go both ways. I mean, you can have a person that may have great ability, but doesn’t put in the work that is required. So he has this natural ability, and you can be successful, to some extent, and you can be a good player, but you're not going to be great. But then you have the other type of player that has limited ability and puts a ton of work into it. And that player is going to be also good for different reasons. But then you have the great sort of a holy grail combination, when you have a person that has great natural ability, and then the drive to pursue that ability to the maximum level that they can pursue it and that's when you get the superstars. I don't think one thing is less than the other. You’ve got to be able to be born with some God-given ability, and then be able to recognize it in order for you to put in the work that could take that ability, that germ and then make it flourish into this great career and be extremely successful, to eventually become a superstar. That does take a lot of work regardless of the level of the ability that you're born with. 

Adam: So who do you consider to be the best teammate that you've ever had? And whether it's in baseball or in any other context, what makes a great teammate?

Bernie: Well, I think it is a very interesting question because there are teammates that are great for different reasons. I think there are teammates that are great, pulling you in, and uplifting you as opposed to dragging you down. I think a good teammate is also somebody that could lovingly constructively criticize you from the outside in, because you cannot see yourself playing. But a good voice that you respect that has the ability to point out maybe some things that you were doing at a very key moment. And that can be a pivotal time in your career. A great teammate is also a person that plays great, but makes everybody around them play great as well. And just can carry a team just by saying, ‘Hey, I get you now. But I know that I'm going to lean on you at some point, and you're going to have to carry me too.’ And having a great rapport. Those are examples of great teammates, and I have plenty of those in my career playing with the Yankees, starting with the Captain Derek Jeter and Jorge and all that core players Mariano, Paul O'Neill, Tino Martinez, David Cone, Chili Davis, I mean, you can mention a whole lot of those guys that were in the right place at the right time. And I think that's probably one of the reasons that we were so successful, because the team really spent the money wisely keeping that core group of people together for a long period of time. And it was just a no brainer, because we were so in-tune with each other as far as playing on the field, and we had a great rapport and a great camaraderie and a great fraternity.

Adam: You mentioned Derek Jeter, you mentioned Mariano Rivera. You also mentioned Chili Davis, who is a former Angel and who spent a number of years as a hitting coach. And as you ticked off some of the key characteristics of a great teammate, those same qualities can be applied to what makes a great leader: someone who uplifts others, someone who provides constructive feedback to others, someone who leads by example, who elevates the performance of those around them by simply doing and showing up every day, and being their best. Who are the best leaders who you have been around? And what do you believe makes a great leader?

Bernie: I think one of the greatest leaders that I've ever had the honor to play with is the former captain of the Yankees, Don Mattingly. Though my formative years as a young baseball player, he was the one person that I certainly looked up to, as far as developing my approach in the game, knowing how to go about it, being ready 162 games out of the regular season, and then have enough gas in the tank to lay it all out in the postseason. A guy that would have all those qualities that I mentioned before, a person that would set you apart, not show you off, not try to make fun of you, but lovingly say, ‘Hey, I know you think you're a good player but you still need to do this and this and this to become even better.’ And saying that in a loving fashion and showing up leading by example, like going out on the field and leaving it all out there. And his preparation on a daily basis, the way that he prepared in such a professional manner. He was like doing his routine, doing his preparation, never slacking off. Even as good a hitter as he was, every day he had to do these things. So he can have that peace of mind and say, ‘Okay, I am mentally and physically ready to tackle this game, whatever comes my way, I will be ready because I have prepared.’ And doing it that way for a number of times in a regular season is just a mental toughness, not only the physical toughness dealing with pain and nagging injuries, but the mental toughness to go out there and having the fortitude of saying ‘This is what I do and this is the way that I roll, and I am going to prepare and by hopefully by people seeing what I do, they'll tag on. And then we’ll bea great impenetrable machine.’ And teams, when you talk about teams, you are only as strong as your weakest link. So everybody there that's pooling whatever ability they have, whatever role they have on the team, it has to be up to the best of their ability, because we're going to be judged by the weakest of our team members, and everybody has to be strong in order for us to be successful.

Adam: That's a great point. You're only as strong as your weakest link. And something else that you're sharing, as you describe Don Mattingly and his leadership style as you talk about some of your other teammates. Everyone is wired differently and whether you're constructing a baseball team, or whether you're constructing any other kind of team that is going to work together to try to reach a common goal, you want to get people who number one are going to complement each other and number two are going to be themselves in doing it. And Bernie, your style is different from Don Mattingly's style is different from Chili Davis’s style. And at the end of the day, it's ultimately about understanding yourself, being yourself and bringing your best self into the clubhouse, onto the field every single day.

Bernie: Yeah, and I think that has a lot to do with the manager of the team by saying the manager plays a very pivotal role in putting all those characters and all those mentalities together. Because I think the sign of a great manager and a great leader is the fact that he or she takes the time to know each player, each member of the team and knows how to get the best out of that particular person. Some people you need to push constantly, and you make sure that they are in a positive mindset for them to be at their best. And you constantly need to be on them to get that precious metal out of them. Some people you cannot be on them all the time because they shut down. You got to let them go and let them go into their own devices. I was one of those players. I did not need to be told, ‘Hey, you gotta go practice, you got to do this, you got to do that.’ I knew what made me ready and what I needed to do to be at my best. So anything that was outside of that, I just saw it as a distraction. And somebody's just trying to get on me and he was counterproductive. But the manager needs to know that. And you would not approach me the same way that you may approach maybe like a Randy Johnson or in some other player. You need to know what makes them tick. What can you tell them to be out there best mentally, so they can be in a good mental position to be at their best physically, and be able to perform up to their expectations and up to what the team expects from them as well.

Adam: You played for two of the best known managers in modern baseball history. Joe Torre, Hall of Fame manager. Buck Showalter. What were the differences in leadership styles between Buck Showalter and Joe Torre? And what were the best lessons that you learned from sharing a clubhouse with each of them?

Bernie: Well, I think Buck had a lot of great attributes. And I think he was more suited for younger players. The fact that he was a student of the game, never really had an opportunity to play in the big leagues, but when he went to the big leagues, he already knew he had a great plan and a lot of really great ideas on how to play the game and really changed the landscape of how the game was played. A lot of intricate plays in the infield and the outfield, running the bases, and things of that nature. He was definitely a more hands-on manager and great at forming a team, dealing with different characters, and making sure that we did not leave anything out to chance. Joe, on the other hand, was more of a liaison between us and the media in New York, between us and the owner of the team. He had two rules: that you play hard and you'll be on time and you follow those two rules, I’lll go through the wringer for you. And he actually did. I think he was probably in a position that he didn't really have to prove anything as a manager. Obviously, he has had some other teams that he was able to manage. But he was a great player in his own right. He was an MVP of the League one year. And he had experience with the media in New York and being a manager for other teams. So I think he took this particular experience with the Yankees, and said, ‘Okay, this is just icing on the cake. And I'm going to do what I do. And I think it's going to work because I have the players that think they're going to support my style of playing. And we're going to force this team into a force to be reckoned with.’ And he did, he was able to see what everybody needed to be performing at their best and he was very successful in New York.

Adam: Is there a single big takeaway that you have from your time spent with Joe Torre that you think about in applying to your own style as a leader in applying to your life today?

Bernie: Several things which are, make sure you prepare, make sure you're on time, make sure you have a plan of action. But above all else, have fun. The game is based on the fact that you get to have fun. I mean, you have to see the totality of the circumstances. You're being paid enormous amounts of money to play a game. You're in a very particular blessed situation that not a lot of people got a chance to do in their lifetime. And every moment that you spend on that field is a precious moment. Take advantage of it, enjoy it, have fun, because he always said this: we don't own our ability, we borrow it for a period of time. And in that borrowed time, you have to make the most out of it, because you're not going to be with that ability forever. And it's in those years that you have to be conscious of the fact that you have this ability, and to develop it to the best of your ability for as long as you can. And to me that was one of the best things that I got out of dealing with Joe.

Adam: I love that. What was your daily routine when you were a Major League Baseball player? And what is your daily routine now, now that you've shifted more of your focus more of your time more of your attention toward music and toward philanthropy?

Bernie: Well, I think a lot of the things that I used to do as a baseball player were considered a little bit unorthodox. I used to take, they used to call it, naps before games. But in my mind was a matter of just me calming myself down and visualizing. I did a lot of visualization exercises, prior to the start of the game, any particular game, especially in the postseason. A lot of people saw it as interesting, me seemingly trying to close my eyes and taking a nap before the game. But what I was doing instead was picturing myself closing my eyes and picturing myself in a very successful environment, hitting a homerun bringing everything down to the frame by frame, slow motion kind of thing, hitting a ball right on the screws, seeing it go out over the fence and running the bases and hearing the adulation of the crowd and fans and building myself into all that positive reinforcement, which it will definitely translate it into my game. And in many ways into the results of these games, because you look at yourself, and you always see the positive. And in this game, you can only see the positive. Because if you start dwelling on the negative, you're losing half the battle before you even start it. And you'll deal with failures so much as a hitter. That is the only sport and skill where you are only required to be 30% successful to be considered the best in the world. So with that, that means that you deal with a lot of adversity, a lot of strikeouts, a lot of outs, a lot of negativity, a lot of things thrown into your way. And you have to keep telling yourself and keep maintaining this positive attitude above all else. And that's the one thing that keeps you afloat when you go 0 for 3 in the game. And when you are facing the closer, when the game is on the line in the ninth inning, you cannot carry those three at-bats prior because you're already lost the battle. You say, ‘Okay, I got the chance to get them now. I'm gonna get them now. And this is my time to shine.’ And you’ve got to keep feeding yourself this positive reinforcement constantly to be able to be successful.

Adam: Bernie, I love that. So much of it starts with your mindset. The power of positive thinking. Baseball is a game of failure. But the reality is everything we do, no matter what our vocation is, if we start off with the mindset that we're going to fail, we're gonna be all that much more likely to fail. If we step up to the plate with a mindset that we're going to succeed, we're going to be that much more likely to succeed. I was chatting with Kenny Lofton who was a guest on Thirty Minute Mentors. And he and I were chatting off the air and one of the things I was talking to him about was I remember way back in the day hearing Tim McCarver talk about the difference between facing Randy Johnson versus facing Greg Maddux, and how hitters would hate to face Randy Johnson because when you face Randy Johnson, you show up to the batter's box and you're nervous and you're scared and you hit a ground ball to second base and you walk back to the clubhouse. And you feel great. You face Greg Maddux, and you walk up there and your chest is out and you're feeling great and you're saying I can hit Greg Maddux, and you hit a ground ball to second base and you slam your helmet, and say man. But the reality is, both times the pitcher got you out, you hit a ground ball to second base. I was telling you that to Kenny Lofton, and he said, ‘I don't know what you're talking about. Every time I faced Randy Johnson, I went up to the plate thinking I was going to crush him.’ And the reality is, that's the difference between Kenny Lofton, that's the difference between someone who is incredibly successful, and someone who isn't. It's that mindset. What am I going to do when I step up to the plate?

Bernie: Yeah, that's so true. There's no question about that, because that was the first hurdle that you have to overcome. You need that positive mentality. But it doesn't come from a shallow background, it comes in the footsteps and the foundation of your preparation. And that's what keeps you thinking that you're that positive mindset, because you have to go back to saying, ‘Hey, I put in the work, I know what this guy is going to throw. I faced him before. I have prepared myself for this moment. And I'm going to trust that preparation.’ And that's where your positive mindset comes from, it doesn't come out of nothing, it doesn't come out of thin air. YOu can’t say, ‘I'm just going to step here without doing anything about it,’ and then expect to be successful. It’s very entrenched in your preparation and your attitude about trusting preparation, to go into the battle, feeling like you have done everything in your power to prepare yourself to be successful.

Adam: Bernie, that is so well said and it can be applied to anything that you do in life. If you're giving a talk on a particular topic, if you have complete mastery of that topic, you're going to get up there, and it's going to be a piece of cake. If you're giving a talk on a topic that you know nothing about, and you're winging it, it's going to be a totally different experience, I would imagine for you, if you're onstage performing, if you're performing a song that you know, inside out, that you've performed over and over and over and over again, you walk up there with a completely different mindset with a completely different approach than something that you're playing for the first time.

Bernie: And I think the unforeseeable effect of that is, not only you know, but people that know you know that you're winging it. That is when your leadership, and you're leading by example, and everything of that comes into play, because when they think that you're winging it, and you're not preparing yourself, that's not a sign of a true leader. And that's going to negatively affect the way that people think about you. And that's not going to be conducive to great camaraderie or anything like that, because they know that you're mailing it in, and you're not putting your best foot forward. And people that know, know. I mean, there's a musician, they know, for the first couple of notes that I hear, I can hear, okay, this guy's ready, is not only good, but he's ready. He is ready for this moment right now. And you can sense that, and the opposition senses that as well. And baseball is the best example of when you're stepping out in the box, and you have no clue what you're doing, you're telegraphing that to the pitcher. He’s saying, ‘Okay, I got you, I know you're not ready for me. So this is going to be an easy out.’ But if you're prepared, and you fire something straight back, and you have this intimidating look on your –  not to him, but this intimidated demeanor, you’re saying you’re ready to go. ‘You’ve gotta be at the top of your game, because I am at the top of my game, and I am ready to beat you at your game. What are you gonna do about this?’ and that sort of attitude, that means that you're ready. And that trickles down from you to the guy that is sitting next to you to the whole team to the opposition and says, ‘If we're going to play these guys, we’ve got to be at the top of our game because they're ready. And if we are not ready, they're just going to step all over us.’ So it kind of has a lot of repercussions of that kind of mentality, not only for the individual performance, but how does that affect the rest of the team?

Adam: Those highest stick moments playing in the World Series ,bottom of the ninth, you're down by a run, the biggest moments. Did you feel an added level of pressure? Or did you walk up to the plate with this same mindset of excitement? I'm ready to go. I'm ready to get at it.

Bernie: Yeah, excitement was the word. Because once you start putting everything down into analyzing it to the most minimal aspects of it, the game doesn't change. The only thing that changes is the circumstances of the situation that you're in. But in a game where people have to throw strikes, they're gonna throw the ball the same way they have thrown it for years. You know, the bases are the same distance. It's not that they put the bases farther away. The pitcher throws from the same place on the mound. You have to catch the ball. You have to hit the ball. You have to run the bases. You have to do everything the same as if you were at a spring training game. So what is it that changes? Your mind changes, because your perception of the moment that you may think is bigger than you. But if you think of it as like, this is the same game that I've been playing since I was eight years old. I can play for 10 people, I can play for 10,000 people, or I can play it for 100,000 people, and they'll still be the same game, and I'm prepared for it, I know what to do. Then everything else becomes white noise and you're completely focused on what you need to do, and it becomes a lot less pressure. I guarantee you that.

Adam: Bernie, you had a very long and very successful career. But you've pivoted to another career that's been incredibly successful as well. You've married your passion for music, your passion for baseball, your passion for philanthropy. They've all intertwined through your involvement in Tune In To Lung Health, where you have been raising awareness for interstitial lung disease, and the importance of early diagnosis. Why is this something that you are personally so passionate about? And what can anyone do to pay it forward?

Bernie: Well, I'm so glad you asked that question, because this is one of the things that is near and dear to my heart. And I am doing it because, as a professional athlete, we have this platform to talk about a lot of things. Looking back into my career, to my life, my dad was probably one of the biggest influences in my life growing up, and he was our Superman, our superhero. He was a guy that showed me how to play my first couple of notes on my guitar. He was a guy that took me out with my brother and played on a baseball field right after middle school every day, and he was just a very inspirational person to look up to. And when he passed away in 2001, from idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis, which is one of the most common forms of interstitial lung disease, it devastated us. It hit us in a very profound way. And from the time that he started showing symptoms, to the time that he was misdiagnosed for about five years, until we found the right diagnosis of idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis, it was an ordeal that I would not want any family to go through the same way that we did. So to that effect, I have teamed up with Boehringer Ingelheim to form this program called Tune In To Lung Health that emphasizes an early diagnosis and utilizing also one of the things that is near and dear to my heart, that is music, utilizing the power of music, to raise awareness and educate people about interstitial lung diseases. So we're really trying to get people to go to TuneInToLungHealth.com, where you can get a lot of information about interstitial lung diseases. We’ve got breathing exercises, we have a playlist of some of my favorite tunes. And we have people that talk about how it is to live with one of these interstitial lung diseases like idiopathic pulmonary fibrosis, you know. We’ve got comments from doctors and patients and caregivers. And it's a really, really good website to get some information about this particular topic that is so important to me.

Adam: Bernie, what can anyone listening to this conversation do to become more successful personally and professionally?

Bernie: Well, I think you need to have a plan of action, I think you have to spend some time trying to figure out who you are as a person. Because in the measure that yourself, the things that you like, the things that you dislike, the things that you're good at the things that you're not as good at, you can work on your strengths, and make them stronger, and you can work on your weaknesses and make them a strength, but you need to have an assessment of what that is. And I think once you go into something that you feel passionate about, don't go halfway into it, just go 100%. Because you're going to exponentially improve your chances of success the more time you spend on doing the things that you love to do. For me, I've been blessed to have the opportunity to play baseball for a number of years and then retire somewhat young enough to pursue this other passion of mine to the highest level that I could possibly have it. And to me that means working every day on my craft, playing my skills, playing my music, making sure that I understand on a deeper level the language of music, and how can I use that to better my life and better the lives of the people that I surround myself with. One of these important things that I do every day to be successful. It's almost like a way of living. You try to make sure that you leave the world in a better place that you found it kind of like that. So that takes an effort of you doing things every day to that effect. And I think there's the cumulative effect of those things that you do on a daily basis, are the things that formed a body of work, then you look back and say, this was a life well spent, and I lived up to the fullest of my potential, the fullest of my ability and at the end of the day, that's what it's all about.

Adam: Bernie, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Bernie: It was a pleasure, man. Thank you for having me on the show.


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally-recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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