I recently spoke to Bob DeKoch and Phil Clampitt, authors of the new book Leading With Care in a Tough World: Beyond Servant Leadership. Bob spent 20 years leading The Boldt Company, a $1 billion construction services and real estate development company, and Phil is an endowed, award-winning communication and information science professor at University of Wisconsin-Green Bay.

Adam: Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice. First things first, though, I am sure readers would love to learn more about you. How did you get here? What experiences, failures, setbacks, or challenges have been most instrumental to your growth? 

Bob: I’ve come up through increasing levels of leadership responsibilities in a number of corporations, to senior executive levels.  Every step was a leadership learning opportunity. I met Phil nearly 30 years ago and we began to work together – a corporate executive and an accomplished academic. We have now written 3 books together, and many articles, that chronical these learning phases. One of my big challenges has been to work to bring teams of people together to achieve critical outcomes.  You realize the importance of robust communications to explain the desired outcomes and then engage the power of collaboration to surface opposing points of view and facilitate consensus.

We were both at career crossroads when we wrote our first book together. We were working in two different worlds (business/academia) and felt that the demands for certainty by others created conundrums on both an operational and emotional level. The title we came up with was Embracing Uncertainty: The Essence of Leadership.  It helped us put into context what we were both feeling at the time.  That time of reflection and research ignited our passion for getting the leadership issue right! 

Phil: I met Bob right after I received my PhD in Organizational Communication from the University of Kansas. He was looking for an expert on assessing communication practices in the workplace. Since, I had just completed my training on that very issue with the top people in the field, I was feeling very confident when I first met him. After I described my work, he then asked, “What does a world-class communication system look like?” I thought, what a great question! I fumbled through the answer, and driving home, I thought, “Well I blew that opportunity”. Fortunately, Bob saw the inklings of some good ideas and we’ve been working on this issue and other leadership issues ever since.

Adam: In your experience, what are the key steps to growing and scaling your business? 

Bob: Engaging the maximum number of people to the deepest degree possible and get them excited about achieving the important outcomes for the organization. Then coach them and help them succeed so they can show you what they can do.

Phil: Nimble collaboration sparked by robust, substantive debate. This is a skill that few people really possess, which is also the reason so many businesses fail to take off or grow in a sustained manner. At some point, the organization must move beyond “my vision” to “our vision”. I do think this is what Bob excels at, by engaging people and seeing how each key team member’s unique contributions amplifies the collective vision. He does this through a unique combination of visible and subtle practices. We’ve observed other great leaders using a similar approach. In one sense, it appears like magic, but in reality, there are visible actions of a leader and there are the subtle actions. When you combine them, the magic occurs. For example, we talk about sustainable financial performance. The visible practice would be publicizing “10 Financial Facts”, while the more subtle would be offering personal financial training.

Adam: What do you hope readers take away from your new book?

Bob: I hope readers conclude that deep caring about both people and outcomes, working together, will accomplish amazing things. We hope that every leader takes a good hard look at their own approach. Younger leaders may need to develop the right practices. More seasoned leaders may well need to examine their core beliefs and sentiments. 

Phil: I hope they realize three important ideas: 1) You can’t be a great leader by just possessing the right sentiments and beliefs. 2) You can’t be a great leader by just using the right practices. Those practices need to be connected to some strongly held beliefs. 3) Great leaders weave a tapestry of the right, firmly held beliefs and the proper emergent practices. For example, you can’t truly collaborate with others unless you embrace uncertainty and let yourself be surprised by the results. 

Adam: What do you believe are the defining qualities of an effective leader?

Bob: In Leading with Care in a Tough World we describe 5 core beliefs and 9 practices that define the qualities of a caring leader. The beliefs and the practices, taken together are critical. We believe firmly that a caring leader is an effective leader.

Phil: Not only maximizing the potential of each team member but also maximizing the team dynamics. The word “qualities” is a bit ambiguous and can be misleading. Historically, “height” and “largeness” were considered the most important “qualities” of a leader. Think of Peter the Great and others. Moreover, it can imply it’s all about the relationships and quality of those relationships the leader develops. That’s one thing very few leadership scholars directly discuss. After all, talking about “qualities” is easier than talking about synergistic relationships. 

Adam: How can leaders and aspiring leaders take their leadership skills to the next level?

Bob: In Chapter 4 of our book we propose that a commitment to lifelong leadership learning is an essential belief. That’s how leaders get to the next level. 

Phil: Well, my favorite physicist (besides my dad) was Richard Feynman. He once said, “The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool.” So, I think it starts with assessing your current beliefs and the quality of your practices. I don’t think there is a “one-size-fits-all” recommendation. Instead, it is more about self-assessment and growth from that point. I have noticed that sometimes people in leadership positions are just missing one ingredient. It could be a skill, or a key belief that they have not internalized in a robust way. Once they develop that skill or acquire that belief, they revolutionize their relationships and achieve amazing things.  

Adam: What are your three best tips applicable to entrepreneurs, executives, and civic leaders?

Bob: 1.) Live a set of core leadership values, 2.) Always strive for progress, 3.) Collaborate before you negotiate.

Phil: 1) Embrace uncertainty. 2) Adroitly manage pushback conversations. 3) Communicate about the “things that matter” to people and the organization. 

Adam: What is your best advice on building, leading, and managing teams?

Bob: Listen, listen, listen! …and make sure people feel they are being heard. This means making sure that people who are silent have a path to making their voices heard. This may mean affording them opportunities to provide input in different forums or even on a one-on-one basis.

Phil: I really like starting with asking everyone to craft a “Personal Instruction Manual” about how to best work with you. After all, the products we purchase all come with a “User’s Guide” – “Why not a guide on how to best work with me?” Negotiating unique team rules is also important. 

Adam: What is the single best piece of advice you have ever received?

Bob: If you get the values right, everything else will follow.  Leadership values are foundational. A leaders direction emanates from these values.

Phil: Ask, “So what?” This allows me to always look for the implications of ideas. For instance, consider a leader who actively listens to team members and encourages them but never addresses their problems. So what? That leads to a culture of toxic positivity.  

Adam: Is there anything else you would like to share?

Phil: Rhetorically and historically, the concept of “Servant Leadership” has a lot of resonance because it shifted the focus away from the leader to others. We think this idea needs to be refined and extended on because of the many challenges we’ve discussed in the above responses.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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