I recently interviewed Carl Daikeler on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is the leader of a billion dollar company that disrupted the world of fitness. Carl Daikeler is the co-founder and CEO of Beachbody, the business that changed the way millions of people workout. Carl, thank you for joining us.

Carl: Thank you, Adam, great to be here.

Adam: So much of the entrepreneurial journey centered around responding to adversity, failure and rejection. And I wanted to start off by asking you about a rejection you faced, long before you became an entrepreneur, and how that shaped the trajectory of your entrepreneurial career. As a high school senior, you were rejected by every single college that you applied to. And you and your buddy decided to drive up to one of those colleges to try to persuade the dean of admissions into letting you in. Can you take listeners back to that moment? How did you sell the dean of admissions into changing or rejection into an acceptance? And what did you learn from that experience?

Carl: Yeah, it's such a funny story. And a little bit of background, my family, I was lucky enough to grow up in a family that had two very special things about it. First off, they were quite entrepreneurial, particularly in the area of salesmanship. My mom was an interior decorator. So design was a big deal. But you know, she had to generate our own clients. And she was very creative with self-promotion. My dad, he was a rep automotive repair service and would travel around and my uncle worked with him so I was always around salesmanship. And so I'm sort of basking in never taking rejection, as personal rejection, but perhaps a lack of understanding of the opportunity that's you're being presented with. And on the other hand, my family was always around production and music and theater. We owned an interest in a little theater called the Bucks County Playhouse outside of Philadelphia. So at a very young age, not only, you know, was I building salesmanship skills, but I was also doing things that other kids my age, 12 years old, 13 years old, weren't even close to, like I was running lights and setting up cameras and helping stage manage major productions. So when I got rejected by these colleges, and in particular, by Ithaca College, which is the school I wanted to go to, they had no way of knowing from the admissions that I filled in the application that I had this background like that of production. And so I wanted to make sure that the dean of admissions knew that, that look there, I'm sure, because I worked full time. I'm sure there were kids that had better LSAT scores, and better grades. But I was also quite sure that when it came to applying whatever I learned at Ithaca, there were very few people who would take it into the world with as much ambition and desire to put it into practice, as I was, because I've been doing it since I was 12. And so that was the essence of it. And, you know, when he asked me, how, how could that manifest? What would that mean? And I told him about some of the productions that I'd already done for the State Board of Education of Pennsylvania and traveling around with a company that was producing concerts and how I handled all their technology at the age of 18. And so, we had this conversation for about 45 minutes and he said, alright, you go have lunch and let me talk to our advisors here and then come back. And sure enough, I went back in and he stood up and from behind his desk and he shook my hand and he said, you know, welcome to Ithaca College. And, it was a great experience and from what's most interesting about it is I went through a major that was called Corporate Organizational Media, which basically meant using media to influence behavior or teach, which was a very new major at the time. But can you imagine a more perfect major, to train a guy to go into using fitness and nutrition to help people get in shape and get healthy at home? It just kind of was created for me, and really did inform much of the strategies that we use at Beachbody to help people get in the best shape of their lives right in their living rooms.

Adam: Incredible. And if you can fast forward, what are the best sales and marketing tips that you can share with listeners? What are strategies that you use and have used over the years that have led to all this success?

Carl: It's one of my favorite topics because it's such an important skill set for people to understand. I think sales can be a dirty word, but really what it is, is a good salesperson is a problem solver, is a need filler, if you will. The last thing you want to do as a salesperson is sell somebody something that they don't need. But you also, you know, that’s just as bad is letting somebody walk away from a purchase that you know could satisfy a need, so anybody who's listening who's trying to sell something, whether it's sell themselves into a job or into college, or sell a product or service, the real question is, what does your product or service or skill set do for the person you're trying to sell it to that would enhance their lives, that would solve the problem in such a unique way> There's a book called The Obstacle is the Way. And there's a story in that about George Clooney, who started, you know, he would go through the normal acting process and auditioning and resenting when he wouldn't get a job. And then he flipped the script, and basically went into auditions, not trying to get the part, but trying to see what they were looking for so that he could determine if he could deliver what they were looking for. And then if he felt that he could do that better than any other actor, he made sure that the people in the audition or the screen test knew about it, and understood why. And that's good salesmanship. That's all you're trying to do. Let's use what we do at Beachbody. We've got over 80 programs on this platform, which means that I've got something for everybody. So if I meet somebody who likes to dance, and they'd like to dance more, and they'd like to lose some weight, or they'd like to get in shape, then I can recommend to them the dancing programs on the Beachbody platform. But that won't appeal to the person who wants to add bulk or the person who wants to increase sports agility who might want a program like P90X or Body Beast or six weeks of the work or for agility, they might go to Insanity or Max 30 or Morning Meltdown 100. This is our job as salespeople is to help influence people to take action to enhance their health, and do it in the convenience of their own home and make sure that we have a broad enough catalog that anybody who would want to do that has the right program on the platform for them. And so again, good salesmanship is really just helping somebody meet their needs.

Adam: I love it. Understand your audience, put yourself in the shoes of your prospects and your customers, and offer customized solutions. One size does not fit all. And ultimately, you have to compel people to buy your product. Your audience has to want what you're selling, and it's your job to drive them there. And so much of Beachbody success has been centered around an expertise in developing testing, launching, and marketing new products. What advice do you have for listeners on how to develop new products, how to test them, and ultimately how to successfully bring them to market?

Carl: The first and most important thing I think, is to never lose your own personal sense of why you're creating this product. Meaning, I've been doing this for 23 years, and I can honestly say I don't like working out. I don't like eating well. So every product that we initiate has to pass my own test. What would this help me finally, be more consistent, like, so I never lose that, you know, I'm saying and look, I'm lucky that I'm the CEO of this company because we have so many programs and they do work. But that doesn't mean I like working out. That doesn't mean I became a fitness lover, I like how I feel. But every time we are working on a program, it has to pass through this filter. And it's not just me, it's our product development teams who are also not fitness people, it has to pass through this filter of, are you going to help me actually be consistent with this. And if the person who's developing it loves fitness so much, that it just falls together. And it's this program for fitness people, we're not going to influence the people that we really want to reach Beachbody. And that's the 150 million people who are overweight or obese and haven't found the thing for them and they don't even understand that Beachbody is a company of people who all are living the problem. So the program's appeal is to people who are living the problem. So for your listeners who are developing products, you know, there was the great story of Steve Jobs, he loved music, and none of the digital music players on the market met his demands of having a huge library of music on a device he could hold in his pocket. So he invented the iPod. But he developed it to a specification for a lover of music. That's the same way we approach fitness and nutrition programs, they need to be simple, step by step. And I better get results in the first couple of weeks or I'm done. And that's the advice I would have for people.

Adam: Carl, I had Tony Horton on the podcast earlier and one of the things that we spoke about was how P90X came together. And as we were talking about off the air, I've done P90x a couple of times now. And going through the workout, you can understand how the persona of Tony Horton combined with the marketing expertise of Beachbody made it such a commercially successful product. You not only brought in Tony, but over the years you brought in countless others, not only on screen but across your entire organization who have helped make Beachbody the success that it is today. What advice do you have on how to identify, recruit and develop top talent?

Carl:  That's probably the thing I'm the weakest at. Except with one exception- certainly, on-camera talent, there's something very special that Beachbody looks for. And it's the ability to connect through the lens. With the viewer like that it's very difficult. What Tony Horton does and our other what we call super trainers. What they do, it looks so easy. And you know, through the pandemic, so many people would go on Zoom or Instagram and they do workouts. And, you know, people ask me, do you feel threatened by all this competition? I'm like, no, there's plenty of free workouts on YouTube. There's just something different about the way Beachbody does it. And the way we both communicate the technical side of it, and also bring personality to it. And that's what, I think, if I've done anything right in my career, it's letting Tony Horton be Tony Horton and not expecting him to be some super serious technician. But instead, we let him be fun and funny. He's a former comedian. And so what my point here for your listeners is when you find great talent, let him be great and don't break them of their greatness. You do need to steer them and so that it's actually a double-edged sword. The other side of that is when you have great talent but you're a leader of a group that has to lead great talent, you do need to make sure that that talent understands there's a target that you are shooting for. And you need to be on the same page with what your vision is. So you know, Tony and I didn't always disagree, didn't always agree on the direction of the programs and the design of P90X or other things that we’ve done. But, you know, ultimately, we worked it out. And I got my vision, at the same time that he got to create something really special. And I've seen, I've had executives on the team of Beachbody who were trying so hard to fit into what they thought Beachbody meant. And they lost their edge. And I would take them aside and be like, hey, you know, we brought you into this marketing job, because you had edges, and you knew where the efficiencies were for sales and marketing. And you're just losing it, everything's getting rounded corners, and I'm losing your, your sharp skills. And I want that back. And so that's the important thing is you don't, on one hand, find good talent. On the other hand, make sure you don't break that good talent, but do make sure you lead that talent to the specific place you expect them to be if you're the one paying them.

Adam: What do you believe are the key characteristics of a great leader? And how can anyone become a better leader?

Carl:  I'm still trying to figure that out. But I would say, let me say probably what my weaknesses are, you know, I'm a bit of a loner. And that's one of the reasons that I like my in-home workouts is I get to go to the basement and do my in-home workouts with no witnesses. Like, I don't like having a personal trainer. So when it comes down to it, if you're going to run a billion-dollar company, you've got to be able to collaborate. And so there's this balancing act of collaboration, and listening. But at the same time, managing a team, to the agreed-upon goal. And I think part of that, part of the important thing is getting by upfront, as to this is what the goal is. And these are the you know, we would call it if we were creating a product, that Beachbody would call it the top sheet, this is a problem, it's going to solve the unique selling proposition. And these are the features and benefits of it. And so now everybody sort of has this sheet of music. And we're headed that way. And then and then what a great leader will do, what I think I bring to the table in our product development executives is they're always trying to plus it up. Like there's one thing that in creating a product, like we have one coming out right now, called Job One, which is 20 minutes a day, five days a week, for four weeks. And so it means basically, putting yourself first, that your health and fitness needs to be a priority before you can help anybody else. And, you know, as we were developing that we developed with a trainer named Jennifer Jacobs, you know, we had to refine and tighten and plus it up so that it was better than anybody else who might produce a 20 minutes a day, five day a week functional fitness program, like what's going to make it better? How are we going to make it so that it's accessible to more people but challenging to all people? Like these are the finer things that you learn over the course of 23 years, that you learn to impart and share with a team so that when your eyes aren't in that room, you've got a team who's looking out for the best product possible. And then if you're good at picking talent, you can rely on them to deliver for you. And if something's a little off, you make the correction, you try not to be abusive about it or or or abrasive about the way you correct in your leadership style so that people can learn from it rather than be ashamed of something. And that will hopefully turn into a win for the whole team. And I think, you know, my experience since we started Beachbody and since it's expanded and really the customers- we've got over two and a half million subscribers and on this platform and the customer has become part of the product part of the community and what's so incredible about that is it means that they're leaders to like when people are thinking about quitting one of our programs, it's very easy to quit an in-home program, right, because you got no witnesses. But we've got these coaches and customers who will check in on you, we have a thing of our own little internal social media thing called BOD group stands for Beachbody on Demand groups. And so the Beachbody on Demand group section is where people check in on each other and show leadership by encouraging people. What was the goal? What did you want? I thought you wanted to lose 25 pounds, let's keep going. And that's great leadership. And you know, like I said, it's particularly in the health and fitness business, it's something that I'm still figuring out because you can also push too hard. And then there are times that people, you don't want their fitness and nutrition goals to be the enemy. You want them to love them so that they'll do them the rest of their lives. So as a leader in this space, we're always trying to find a way so the customer always feels welcome and accessible. That's why when we added what they call a connected bike, right? So you know, Peloton created this great breakthrough putting indoor cycling in the home. But what we did was we didn't incorporate a leaderboard, the bike that we incorporated, we wanted that thing to always be a friend, always feel like when you get on it, you're always gonna win. While you're trying to get your personal best you'll never feel defeated. And that's the kind of leadership that Beachbody wants to be to the customers who want to get results.

Adam: Carl, you're not only the co-founder and CEO of Beachbody, but you're a Beachbody customer. You mentioned that as much as you don't like working out, you do the workout to drink the shakes, you walk the walk. How do you motivate yourself on the days that you don't feel motivated? And what are your best tips on the topic of motivation?

Carl: It really comes down to goal setting and being fierce about it. And so that's the first thing, set a goal. And what the timeline is for the achievement of that goal. And that's really the signature of what Beachbody started with our first full program called Power 90, which was kind of the prequel to P90x that we did with Tony, that I was like, you know what, I don't know if I want to work out the rest of my life. But I know I'll work out for 90 days. And I'd like to lose that 20 pounds. So you've got the goal. And you've got the timeline. And so you're dialed in, right? So that doesn't require motivation, that requires commitment. However, there will be days you wake up, you're just not feeling it, or perhaps you feel off or travel schedule or something interrupts and one day off turns into two days missed and three days missed, and then all of a sudden you lost a week, it's very easy to throw in the towel on that goal, or just be not sure how to re-engage. And that's where motivation comes in, I think, and the refusal, the fierce refusal to just stop and just go, you know, what, it doesn't feel great, I don't feel great about myself that I lost that week, or those two weeks or, or that I, you know, blew the program off for a month. But I'm getting back on and I'm going to do this and I'm going to lose those 20 pounds, and I'm going to figure out how to eat so that I can still enjoy the foods I love but still lose the weight and be a healthier version of myself. And I think that is part of it. You know, you surround yourself with positive people, be on the lookout for negative influences around you that, you know, negative people can bring you down and so be on the lookout for that. Complainers love to complain and you can get sucked into this sort of complaining vortex. And there's nothing less motivational than somebody who's sitting across the table from you complaining about how there's no time to exercise and they don't feel like eating right. And it's easy to jump on that bandwagon. So you've got to sort of protect your boundaries of your own motivation. And then plug into books. I read. That's what I read. I read business books, self-help books, and very rarely read fiction. You know, I'll watch a movie every once in a while, but I love documentaries to see how other people succeeded. This is the stuff. This is where I get my motivation. And here's the thing, Adam, you know, it's great what you do with your podcast, people really get a lot out of hearing from the guests that you have on and they can't take that for granted because this is an incredible source of fuel versus mud or versus a toxic sort of ingestion of the problems of the world we've got, we're surrounded by that. But here you are doing this podcast for people, that they might stay on track with whatever goal there is because it is hard to make a business work. And it is hard to keep going when the people around you are telling you that you're not doing it right or you never succeed at something. But podcasts like this, that keep people going. And that's what I would suggest: keep looking for other positive influences, protect your boundaries, and be fierce about keeping your goal in sight.

Adam: I really appreciate the kind words and in our remaining time, I want to ask you a few rapid-fire questions. What are your best tips on the topic of direct response marketing?

Carl: Direct response marketing requires incredible discipline to read the results and be honest about the results. So you need to understand what your margins are so that you can be very calculating about measuring the cost of acquiring a customer, and what the lifetime value is. Once you have that math, you have the ability to understand if you've got a winner or not.

Adam: You built a community of two and a half million people. What are your best tips on the topic of community building?

Carl: If you want to have a great community, you need to let that community operate honestly, with itself. You can have boundaries so that you hold the community into the topic, the specific genre that you want the community to be about. But other than that you can't oversteer. You've got to let the community be free.

Adam: Beachbody recently went public through a SPAC. What’s the best lesson you learned from the experience of going public? And what's the single best lesson you have for listeners, when it comes to the topic of SPACs?

Carl: I think SPACs - we happened to get swept up in a very turbulent time for SPACs. So our timing was off. But at the end of the day, what matters for a public company is that it's a great business. And, you know, I would say what I've learned is that the market won't understand your business until your results prove out your premise. And that's what we're in the business of doing. So we took a great company with a great mission to help people public. And now it's our job to deliver a great business model that, over the long term, creates great value for our investors.

Adam: What can anyone do at any level of fitness to get into better shape?

Carl:  The most important thing about trying to get into shape is being honest about where you're starting. So you know, understand what your weaknesses are. And don't force yourself into something that isn't going to be good for you so you don't get hurt. That is the easiest way to derail yourself from being consistent. And then, but that's really the key, then once you find that spot, that thing that works for you, you've got to be consistent. And I think consistency can be different for people. For some people, it's seven days a week. For others, it can be four days a week, but that's what you've got to do: find what's right for you and be consistent with it.

Adam: Carl, you're in the business of facilitating transformations. How can anyone listening to this podcast, transform their bodies, transform their minds, transform their careers, or transform their lives?

Carl: Transformation is an easy word to say and a very difficult thing to achieve. And the most important thing to understand is that you've got to have new inputs to transform something that the being that you are the habits that you have, are going to be very difficult to transform unless you get some new information or a new fitness program or a new nutrition program that's going to help you change your behavior. It's very difficult to just do it because you're a creature of your own habits, you're a product of your own habits. So if you want to transform, you've got to get some new inputs to help you change your behavior.

Adam: Carl, Thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Carl: My pleasure. Thanks for having me.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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