Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Olympic Gold Medalist Dara Torres

I recently interviewed Dara Torres on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is a swimming legend, four time Olympic gold medalist. Their tour has competed in five different Olympic Games, and won 12 medals and tied for the most out of any woman across all sports in US history. Dara, thank you for joining us.

Dara: Thank you for having me, Adam.

Adam: You grew up right down the street in Beverly Hills and started swimming competitively at a very early age. What sparked your passion for swimming and growing up? What allowed you to maintain your passion for swimming when so many people burn out or lose interest in whatever it is that once fueled them?

Dara: I guess I got into it because I had brothers. And whatever they would do, I would do and my mom would take me to the pool and keep me on the bleachers because I was younger than them and they'd be swimming. And I think I had so much energy, just like oh my gosh, I have to get her in the pool. Like I can't have her running around the bleachers, and, you know, can't keep an eye on me and stuff. So that's kind of how she got me into swimming. And I think I just stayed into it because I just love the sport. I mean, my parents were great about letting us do what we wanted to do. So I played soccer, I played basketball, and volleyball, and did gymnastics and tennis. So I did everything. But I always just kept coming back to swimming. And it's not an easy sport to stay passionate about, because it's a year round sport, and I was in it for so many years. But when you love something so much and you set goals, I think it makes it a little easier to not get tired of it.

Adam: Were there times growing up, when you felt burnt out, when you felt like you were ready to move on to something different, and you had that moment and decided to stick with it?

Dara: You know, not when I was really younger, it was more so my dad would take the sport away from me if I wasn't getting good grades. So it was more like a punishment, to not be in the sport. But I would say it didn't happen till I was in college when the training was just the hardest training I've ever done in my life. And I was just exhausted. And I just really wasn't enjoying the sport anymore. And I had other things going on with an eating disorder. And just, um, you know, being away from home. I went to University of Florida, so I was across the country, you know, away from home. And but I knew that I was given a scholarship, I was, you know, given the opportunity to perform for University of Florida, and I couldn't really give up on them. So I waited. So I finished my senior year and then retired from the sport for the first time.

Adam: We're going to talk about your retirements, your comebacks, about your ups and downs and how you were able to overcome obstacles in your life. But I want to take you back to that first Olympic moment. You're still in high school, it's 1984. And you qualify for the Olympics, you win a gold medal. What are your sharpest memories from that experience as a high school student winning an Olympic gold medal?

Dara: What I realized from my last Olympics in 2008... So looking back in retrospect in 1984, I don't think that at 17 years old, you can appreciate as much as you do when you're older. So I was really just this kid bouncing off the walls and kind of in awe of everyone else. When we had Michael Jordan at those Olympic Games, Carl Lewis ,Mary Lou Retton, like these incredible athletes, and I was almost forgetting that I was there too as an athlete competing. And so I obviously, you know, 100% enjoy the moment, enjoy the national anthem playing and the flag going up and getting that gold medal put around your neck. But I have to say that I didn't appreciate it as much at that age as I did when I was older. And the one thing I did love was the fact that I was competing in my hometown. And so I had friends there and my family there and it was really nice in that regard to have that support system there.

Adam: Can you talk a little bit more about what you did to become an Olympic athlete and become an Olympic gold medalist? You made reference to the intense training regimen that you had in Florida, but clearly you trained incredibly intensely, all the way dating back to the time you were a kid. What do you do to get to the top?

Dara: Well, I think in fairness and being honest, you know, the sport really came easy to me. So at the beginning of my career, I could just go. We're on vacation for two weeks, come back and break a national age group record. It was just easy. And then when I started to become more of a woman and grow and my body changed, that's when I really had to start working and training hard. Not that I didn't, you know, go to, I probably want to say maybe eight workouts a week when I was younger, you know, doing strength training in the gym and stuff like that. But my training really got more intense when I got to the point where I knew I wanted to go to my first Olympic Games. And that's when sort of something changed in my head that, okay, I need to really start training and this is what I want to do. So, you know, it's really a commitment, it's about sacrifice, hard work, dedication. Each Olympics I went to, even though the yardage was there, and the meters that we did with the amount of training we did, each Olympics, for me, was a little different than the training methods. And as I got a little bit older, I probably didn't do as much in my training because my body couldn't recover. So the training was sort of in stages as I got older in life, but it was pretty intense. I don't think people really know, in the peak of my training, when I really was at the intensity of it was probably when I was, you know, in my 20’s and 30’s, from my third and fourth Olympic Games. And we were doing about nine workouts a week, probably training between four and six hours a day, six days a week. So we had basically Sunday off, and that was it. And if we ever take a break during the year it is maybe one or two weeks at most and you get back right in and start training again. So it was a very intense training that we did, but it was worth it in order to be the best that you can be.

Adam: You mentioned having to overcome an eating disorder. Can you share with listeners, firstly, how you were able to overcome that obstacle that you faced. And number two, just any advice you have around nutrition and health and wellness, and what listeners can do to get into the most optimal shape physically, mentally, emotionally, that they can get into, based on the lessons you've learned from your journey.

Dara: The eating disorder wasn't something that I sought out, it just, you know, in college weight was very important. And how you looked was very important. Our coach was really into the fact that if you looked fit on the starting blocks, and your competitors saw that, then they'd be intimidated and maybe not swim as fast. And that was sort of what his philosophy was. So I had developed an eating disorder, because I was one of those kids that would really just look at food and gain weight. Like if I didn't eat, I would still not lose weight. And so it's just something that developed and it was hard to overcome it. It took me getting out of college, I started it in my freshman year in college. And it took me until I was a year out of college to finally get it under control. And it's really about discipline. Believe it or not, what I learned in the pool was trying to get myself to stop, you know, binging and purging. And I had to go see a psychologist and talk to them and sort of get to the deep root of why I had this and why I felt the need to have to binge and purge. And then it was really about being disciplined with resisting the temptation of doing that. And it's not an easy fix. It's something that, you know, took a while to get over. And I would say the biggest thing for anyone who has anything like this going on, or any kind of addiction like that is to go talk to someone because I held it in for about four and a half years and didn't tell anyone about it. And it's just a huge weight on your shoulders that you have to go through this by yourself. And the reason why I never said anything is because I don't want to disappoint people. And that was the hardest thing to kind of overcome. And then once I was able to talk about it, that was the first step to my recovery and in getting over this. And so that was that with the eating disorder. And then as far as staying fit and staying healthy. You know, after having a lot of fears of foods, certain foods, some in particular because of you know, the foods they would serve us in college and sort of forced upon us and you know, when we go on trips and we have boxes of pizza, that's all I had for us to eat and you know, I was in the middle of a eating disorder and eating pizza is not the best thing for me to have having had that but you know, everything's all about moderation as far as what you put into your body and I never deprive myself of anything. I think that's what I was doing was depriving myself of food and because of that I wanted it more and more. So right now, like if there's a chocolate cake out there in the kitchen, I'm going to go have a little bite or a little piece to satisfy my craving and then move on. And as far as training goes, you know, I'm very disciplined with my training. I'm not as intense obviously as I was when I was, you know, swimming, but I like how fitness makes me feel. I like how it makes me look on the outside and it's just for me, it's really a stress reliever to go do a workout. And I think as I've gotten older I don't feel like I have to do as many as I used to do. Maybe workout five, six times a week, maybe an hour a day. And that's about it. And I allow my body to recover because as you get older you really need to listen to your body more and allow it to recover.

Adam: So, when you were training, how did you motivate yourself on the days that you didn't feel motivated? And what are your best tips for listeners on the topic of motivation?

Dara: That's a great question that I get asked a lot. And I think the biggest thing for me is setting goals. I remember in my first Olympic Games, and this is just looking back, I felt like I thought about it, but just one of the things I remember doing is writing on a big poster board and putting the times that I wanted to go and the final time I wanted to go and just slap it on my on my wall for a year before Olympic trials in 1984. And I realized then, in retrospect, looking back that I was a goal setter. And I've always set goals, no matter what I'm doing, whether it's with swimming or something else in my life, giving motivational talks and you know, how I want to present myself like, everything's a goal for me. And I think that's what motivates me, because I remember distinctively in 2007, when I was training for the Olympics, and my coach had an office off the pool deck. And I remember going into his office and just like plopping on the couch and saying, oh my god, I'm exhausted, I can't do this. This is just crazy at my age. And then, you know, he just kind of let me vent, I guess, and he probably wasn't paying attention to me as long as the computer. And so finally I sat up, I'm like, okay, I'm good. You know that goal of wanting to win a gold medal, and in a way just knowing I’m not going to get there by sitting on a couch, so I need to get up and go out and get ready for practice. So that's kind of what really motivated me was setting goals.

Adam: I want to talk about 2008. And just to take listeners back - in 1988 and in 1992, you make it to the Olympics, you then walk away from competitive swimming for seven years before making a comeback to qualify for the 2000 Olympics, where you earn two gold medals and become the oldest woman to win an Olympic medal in swimming history at the age of 33, which is an incredible accomplishment. But then seven years later, at age 40, you make another comeback. And, at 41, not only made the 2008 Beijing Olympics, but won three more medals, three silver medals. Can you take listeners through both of your comebacks and what you learned from those two incredible experiences?

Dara: Well, back in ‘99, about a year before the trials- I'm going to make the long story short and give you the short version. It was kind of brought to my attention that if I were to ever make a comeback, that I'd probably be the best at making a comeback, because I'm just really motivated. And I just thought that was a silly idea because I was 32. And there was no way. You don't see people swimming in their 30’s at the Olympic Games. So I tried to let the thought out of my head, but it just dominated my thoughts. And I'm like, alright, I need to go talk to a coach about this. So I talked to the coach who was going to be the head Olympic women's coach with the Olympic team in 2000. And he was training at Stanford, the Stanford swim team, he was the coach there. And I had this long conversation with him and asked what his thoughts were. And he's like, well, let me get back to you. And he got back to me and said, let's do this. And literally from the time the thought got put in my head by my friends teasing me, two weeks later I had moved out to California and started training for an Olympic team and I had not touched the water in seven years since the ‘92 Olympic Games. So that was interesting. It was a very quick process because I had about 11 months to do this. I had to sort of relearn how to swim because the stroke had changed so much over those years. But the intensity was just as intense as when I was younger, but I could sort of get through it a little bit better because I was more mature in my head. So that was kind of an interesting experience. I ended up going over the games and won five Olympic medals, which is the most I'd won at any Olympic Games. And the one thing that coach said to me when I got out of the pool after getting my last medal, he had said, you know, Dara, gee it's too bad you're retiring because you haven't reached your full potential. I was like, what is he talking about? I just won five Olympic medals and I'm 33 years old, he's crazy. And I just retired. I was off on my own like I was done. And then when I got pregnant with my daughter six years later, I was trying to go work out and I just couldn't because I kept getting sick. So I thought oh, you know, I'll go back and swim again. I got sick. I get sick in the gutter and turn around and keep going no big deal. I don't like to clean anything up or you know, just from that morning sickness and stuff. So I started something just for exercise and then about a week before I was supposed to deliver the coach came up to me and said hey, there's a meet in a month. Do you mind asking your doctor if you can summon it? I'm, like, delivering my daughter in a week. I doubt he's gonna, you know? I have my daughter and he says, oh, just ask anyway. So one thing led to another and I ended up saying yes to this meet that he really wanted to get publicity for at the pool. I was swimming out, it was the Masters Nationals. And it was fine. You know, I did, okay, whatever. And then a couple months later, I got goaded into swimming in another meet and one thing led to another and all of a sudden these middle-aged people are asking me to try for an Olympic team. And would it be great to see a middle-aged person now representing us at the Olympics. And so the thought was in my head there, and I just decided to give it a shot. But I realized very quickly that my training had to be much different when I was 41 than it was at 33 because my body was much different. I didn't have the recovery like I used to have, I didn't have the hormones like I used to have, just everything was much different. So I had to sort of reprogram my mind mentally, to allow myself to be okay with not being the one who always does the most in training, which is what I used to do. I used to, when I was done training, I'd go back to the weight room or go run or, you know, just do more than what everyone else would do. Because I thought okay, that's how I'm going to be better than everyone else. But that's not how it works. No, wait, you know, wait, it was actually the less I did, the better. But it took a while, like I said, to mentally reprogram my head to be okay with that.

Adam: So much of your success is attributable to the ability to overcome significant obstacles. And we talked about your eating disorder, we talked about your ability to overcome the reality of aging. We didn't even talk about your ability to overcome the obstacle of competing against the greatest athletes in the world. You were able to do all these things and make it to the top. What advice do you have for listeners on how to overcome whatever obstacles they may be facing now or in the future?

Dara: I think really just don't give up. I mean, I remember sitting at Olympic trials in 2008, before my first event, and I think it all hit me there because I was getting phone calls about the Late Show wanting to do something with you tonight, like all these things. And I'm like, I haven't even gotten on the blocks and competed yet. And I started to feel like just everything was closing in on me and all this pressure. And I remember sitting there, coming out of my hotel room in the hallway of the hotel. And my first coach that had coached me at the Olympic Games had been walking by and he said, Dara, what are you doing out here? And I said, I don't know if I can do this. Like, I feel like there's so much pressure on me to make this Olympic team. And I don't even know how Michael Phelps does this. And, you know, I've never had this kind of pressure, I've been able to sort of stay under the radar and, you know, go to Olympic trials and make the Olympic team and maybe get a few articles here and there. That's about it. But this was a much different magnitude than I'd ever experienced before from the four previous Olympic Games. So he just said to me, you know what? Just go back to why you decided to do this. He said, why did you decide to do this? And I said, I don't know, I guess kind of because I wanted to and I just really missed the sport and loved it. And he said, well keep that in your mind when you go out there and compete tomorrow. And I did and I ended up qualifying in that event, which I shouldn't have, like I wasn't supposed to place fifth or sixth, and I won that event. And even though I still felt the pressure of, you know, making an Olympic team, you just have to really enjoy what you're doing. And I think that once he said that it sort of clicked, oh my gosh, you know, whatever's going to happen is going to happen. I'm just gonna go out there and enjoy this. And that's really what I did. It's not that I felt less pressure than everyone else or, you know, less obstacles, but it's just a matter of just being in the moment and enjoying it.

Adam: I love that. And that's advice that I've heard from other guests on the topic of how to perform under pressure. I did an interview with Chris Tomlin who is one of the most successful musicians in the world. That guy is unbelievable in terms of what he's able to achieve. And one of the things that he told me in our conversation is that his advice on how to best excel in high stakes, high pressure situations is by just going out and having fun. By going out and remembering why you're there. You're there for the same reason that everyone else is there; to enjoy the moment. And I wanted to ask you, you've not only faced the pressure of making it to the Olympics, but have faced the pressure of competing in the highest stakes moments possible. What advice would you share with listeners on how to face high pressure moments?

Dara: Well, I think for me as a swimmer, I'll give you how I dealt with it was, if you do all the hard work up to that point, like I put in the training, I put in eating correctly, I put in sleeping, you know, I had to obviously balance being a mother too. But if you do all the work up to that point, you shouldn't have to overthink everything, you should just go out there and enjoy it. And you know, I'll never forget getting ready for my event and you're in this area called a ready room where you have to be 20 minutes before you swim. And you'll see when you watch the Olympic games like this summer, which I'm sure people have seen in the past, that you see the athletes in one little room and they're waiting, like maybe they have their headphones on or whatever and they are waiting to go out for their heat on that's called the ready room. And I remember walking in and seeing this poor kid that looked like she was just going to pass out of fear. And I thought, well, you know, out of these eight kids, now I'm going to get seven because this girl is so nervous. And I look over to the other side of me and it looks like a girl is about to just get sick to her stomach, cuz she's so nervous. I'm like, well, now I'm in the top six. This is great. I haven't even stepped on the sidewalks and competed yet. But yet, like, I know that I did everything I'm supposed to do. And if you just go out there and enjoy it, you'll be able to do the best that you can be. And especially if you put the hard work in leading up to that point.

Adam: Great advice. So many people think of swimming as an individual sport. But all four of your gold medals were in relays. What advice do you have on teamwork? What are the keys to building a winning team and building a winning culture? What are your best tips on the topic of teamwork?

Dara: Well, swimming really is an individual sport. I mean, the great thing is when you're in a pool, you get to, you know, train with other athletes. So in that regard, it's not really an individual sport. And I understand what you're saying about relays, it's a little different for the Olympic Games because it's not like we were a team competing for years together and then we stand up on the blocks and swim together on a relay, it's whoever wins the event or places in the top six Olympic trials. That's how the relays are made. And so you may not even know who these girls are, but you know that the minute you get out there and stand on the starting blocks for that race, you have the USA on your swim cap on your swimsuit and your sweats, that you're out there as a team working together to get the best outcome that you possibly can. When I was training for OAE, you know, I really put a team together to really, I guess, to help me be the best that I could be. And when I did that, I realized that, you know, I couldn't go out there and do this by myself, I had to have these people help me. And the great thing about that is no one really had an ego. So I have stretching trainers, I had a massage therapist, I had my strength coach, my spring coach, my swim coach, and I was able to get funding to put this group together. And the reason why we were so successful is because no one thought they were better than everyone else. We all work together. And my part of this job was doing the training and stepping on the starting blocks and swimming that race. But they all help me get there. And I think if you can do it as a team and keep everyone on the same playing field, you have more of a shot of a better outcome, I would say.

Adam: Can you talk about some of the coaches who really made an impact in getting you to the level of success that you were able to enjoy over the course of your illustrious career? And in your view, what makes a great leader?

Dara: Well, each coach has a unique spot in my heart with how they helped me. I've had, I want to say numerous coaches, definitely under 10 coaches, in my whole 40 something years of training. But you know, they all offered something in a different way. And some positive, some negative, but you learn from it all. And I think the biggest thing that helped me- that might have made some other athletes jealous who I trained with- but I always had a good rapport with my coaches and I always made sure I had open communication with them, because they could be the leader but they're leading so many different people, so many athletes, that they don't know what's going on with everyone. It's a coach coaching a team. And so you have to be able to go up to the coach and talk to them about things that might be bothering you, maybe positive things or whatever it is so they know how best to coach you. And that's a big thing I learned that I try to tell young kids is don't be intimidated by your coaches. They're there to help you but how they can help you best is how you communicate with them.

Adam: Communication is a two way street and, without a doubt, one of the key characteristics of an effective leader and I would love to know if you could share with listeners if you have any other thoughts around what anyone listening to this podcast can do to become a better leader.

Dara: The opposite of what I just said, the person who's leading you, like I said, you want to be able to talk to them but they have to also be able to be open and listen to what their athletes or their people are saying and to not let ego get in the way and let them learn to from what we're saying. So it's really about open communication on both ends, whether it's a coach, a teacher, or a student, or an athlete.

Adam: I cannot agree with you more; great leaders are great listeners. How can anyone- whether you're aspiring to be an Olympic gold medal winning swimmer, whether you're aspiring to become a CEO, whether you're aspiring to become a leader in your community, or in your family- develop a winning mindset?

Dara: So, you know, people ask that, and parents want to know that especially like, well, how can my kids have a winning mindset, and some part of it, you can learn, but there's other parts, that's just you, and who you are. And I think, you know, a big thing for people who might not just have that is being a person who thinks in the sense that the glass is half full and not half empty. And it's amazing. And in swimming, I learned, you know, probably halfway through my career that how you react when you touch the wall and people around you in practice, really does trip a lot on everyone else. So if you have an issue going on, or whatever, you talk to your coach, or for me, I just go underwater and let it all out. And no one can hear me as bubbles would be all over the place and I pop back up and that way, if I had anything negative, it wouldn't trickle out on anyone else. And I think, you know, staying positive is very important. And if you have some of that negative going on, being able to talk about it too.

Adam: The power of positivity cannot be understated. What can anyone listening do to become more successful personally and more successful professionally?

Dara: I think it's really about being positive, surrounding yourself with people who are going to make you grow and not bring you down. And also you know, working hard knowing that you have to make some sacrifices and dedicate yourself. I think those are the biggest things to make you successful.

Adam: I love it.Thank you so much for all the great advice. Thank you for being a part of 30 Minute Mentors.

Dara: Thank you so much.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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