Do Hard Things: Interview with NeuroLeadership Institute Co-Founder and CEO Dr. David Rock

I recently went one on one with Dr. David Rock, co-founder and CEO of the NeuroLeadership Institute.

Adam: Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice. First things first, though, I am sure readers would love to learn more about you. How did you get here? What experiences, failures, setbacks or challenges have been most instrumental to your growth?

David: I am originally Australian and moved to New York City ten years ago. In 2007, my partner Lisa Rock and I had been working in leadership development and executive coaching for ten years, when I coined the term “NeuroLeadership.” I realized that bringing a more concrete, science-based approach to improving soft skills would not just resonate with business leaders but also make any learning initiative more effective.

That same year, we ran our first Summit in Asolo, Italy, where we brought business practitioners and neuroscientists together to discuss how a better understanding of the brain can inform a new approach to leadership. And that’s what we’ve been doing ever since. We’ve now held Summits across the world, from London to Sydney, from San Francisco to DC. I, and NLI, now call New York City home.

Our vision and mission has evolved a lot over 21 years, though it has always centered on helping individuals and organizations be more effective. These days, and for some years, NLI’s mission is to make organizations more human through science. 

Adam: What have been the keys to cultivating relations with more than half of the Fortune 100 companies? What are your best tips for entrepreneurs and executives at lesser-known companies on how to develop business relationships with Fortune 100 businesses?

David: In short, be useful. Do some research, create some content, build some tools that actually help these organizations. Then give them away voraciously. Be curious, be helpful, follow the energy, and get creative. For us it’s been research, literally doing research we knew organizations were curious about. But there’s other ways too. Then find ways to share what you have created in intimate settings - with real humans in real-time. Online can work too - but in real-time. When it comes to building relationships, what matters most is the quality of ideas. If you have a useful idea - some research, or a framework or tool, people will want to talk to you. Focus on creating that pull, and people will find you.

Adam: What is NeuroLeadership? What should leaders understand about the science behind leadership?

David: Neuroleadership is about making organizations better for humans through science. There are so many inaccurate theories out there driving people strategies, and we want to change these for the better. 

In the last twenty-some years, scientists have developed a far more accurate view of human nature and behavior change because of the integration of psychology (the study of the human mind and human behavior) and neuroscience (the study of the anatomy and physiology of the brain). Neural imaging technologies, along with brain wave analysis technologies, and advanced computer modeling have revealed so much about how the brain (the physical organ) and the mind (the human consciousness that thinks, feels, and acts) interact and inform our behavior. 

This research is particularly and incredibly relevant for organizational leaders. Why? Because we now know that human behavior in the workplace doesn’t work the way many executives—many people in general—think it does. So we shed light on what science says and bridge the gap between research and practice. We bring neuroscientists and leadership experts together to synthesize complex science into better everyday habits that work with the brain, not against it. The results change organizations and change lives. 

Adam: What do you believe are the defining qualities of an effective leader?

David: We often overlook the importance of social skills in leadership, and it’s often to great detriment. Without robust social skills a leader won’t be leading for long. Even with a vision worth rallying behind, without the ability to reach people on a fundamentally social level, a brilliant business strategy will fail time and time again. 

It is a scientific fact that our brains identify social needs as important as physical needs, like food or shelter. Yet, too often organizations fail to appreciate the attention social needs require and as a result, leadership vision and management initiatives are never fully realized. It’s a tension between achieving business goals and motivating and connecting with people. Effective leaders are both goal and people-focused. 

Leaders who are highly goal-focused tend to excel in areas like taking initiative, delivering results, business aptitude, and financial understanding. Leaders who are highly people-focused do well in areas like sensitivity to other’s feelings, willingness to listen, ability to work with diverse people, and understanding the motivations of others. It’s an incredibly hard balance to strike—a cognitive seesaw—but leaders that do are more likely to rally and motivate their people to achieve organizational goals. 

Adam: How can leaders and aspiring leaders take their leadership skills to the next level?

David: Put simply, by better understanding how the brain works. Leaders and managers who understand the recent breakthroughs in cognitive science can lead and influence mindful change: organizational transformation that takes into account the physiological nature of the brain, and the ways in which it predisposes people to resist some forms of leadership and accept others. There are simple, but sometimes counterintuitive, things we can do to lead teams in a more brain-friendly and effective way. Leaders who educate themselves on these practices and the underlying science can take their leadership skills to the next level. Knowledge is truly power. 

Adam: What are your three best tips applicable to emerging leaders?

David: Find great role models and learn from them. Find ways to help them, to get close to them, to see how they think and how they work. And learn about the brain! The more language you have for what’s going in your own and other people’s brains, the more effective you’ll be as a leader.

Adam: What are your three best tips applicable to seasoned leaders?

David: Keep asking for feedback. Especially from people you manage. Ask for what you’re doing well and what you could change in the future. And again, learn about the brain! The more language you have for what’s going in your own and other people’s brains, the more effective you’ll be as a leader, it is literally giving you more control over yourself, your team, and the future of your organization.

Adam: What is your best advice on building, leading and managing teams?

David: All managers should understand that the human brain is a social organ. Its physiological and neurological reactions are directly and profoundly shaped by social interaction. Although a job is often regarded as a purely economic transaction, the brain experiences the workplace first and foremost as a social system.

At NLI, we talk often about social threat and reward as the brain’s organizing principles. To that end, we use a model called SCARF®—which stands for Status, Certainty, Autonomy, Relatedness, and Fairness—to understand how social threat and reward can be understood and influenced to build, lead, and manage teams more effectively. 

If you are a leader, every action you take and every decision you make either supports or undermines the perceived levels of Status, Certainty, Autonomy, Relatedness, and Fairness in your enterprise. Leaders who understand this dynamic can more effectively engage their employees’ best talents, support collaborative teams, and create an environment that fosters productive change.

Adam: What is the single best piece of advice you have ever received?

David: Well, it’s not advice per se, but I think my favorite quote is: “We often think about what is easy to think about, rather than what’s right to think about.” It reminds me that we need to do hard things, rather than just easy things, to really have an impact in the world. I guess this spurred me to think deeply and try to unpack things I didn’t understand, which brought me to the whole world of neuroscience. 

Adam: Is there anything else you would like to share? 

David: Learning about your brain gives you a significant edge, for improving your effectiveness day-to-day, through managing to achieve your own goals longer term, in being a better partner and parent, and in being a significantly better leader. The breakthroughs can be tremendous.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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