Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Interview with E! Co-Founder Alan Mruvka

I recently interviewed Alan Mruvka on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today led the fastest-growing cable startup in television history. Alan Mruvka is the co-founder of E!, which today is enjoyed by 10’s of millions of people around the world. Alan, thank you for joining us.

Alan: Thank you. Thank you, Adam. Thanks for having me.

Adam: Before we take listeners back to your early days as an entrepreneur, I wanted to ask you about your even earlier days. What were your key experiences and best lessons growing up that helped fuel your passion for entrepreneurship and your success?

Alan: Well, I have a sort of a little bit of a unique story, because my passion for the industry that I went into started when I was five years old. I was born in the Bronx, and I lived in Queens after that, and I was a huge television fanatic. When I was five years old, I was addicted to watching television. In fact, when my mother would want me to get into the bathtub when I was finished up they’d wheel in one of the old TVs into the bathroom, and I would sit in the tub for the half hour sitcom, and then get out. So I was a huge television addict. There was even, back in New York, in those days, there was a movie of the week on the local channel, but they would show the same movie every night, they wouldn't show a different movie every night. And I would actually watch that same movie every night. So I was a movie and TV fanatic as far back as I can remember. And that's really where it started fueling my passion for the entertainment business for the television business for the movie business partnered with that my father came to this country from Europe, he was a Holocaust survivor, he started with nothing. And he was probably the most driven person I've ever been around, and the smartest and he sort of ingrained in me since I was young, my entrepreneurship and my drive, you know, he was a big boxing fan. And he used to always say to me, keep on punching, keep on punching, whenever, I'd be down in anything, he would say get up and keep on punching. So I attribute my drive to him and my passion to when I got into an early age. So I sort of was lucky that I knew what I wanted very early on and I had someone pushing me very early on.

Adam: We're going to talk a lot more about movies and television and the entertainment industry, but I want to talk a little bit more about that lesson you learned from your dad, and when you see something so successful likey you think that it was inevitable that, of course, this was always going to be successful, but your vision for E! was rejected by literally hundreds of investors. And I wanted to know if you could share with listeners how, despite all that rejection, you knew deep down that your idea was worth pursuing, and what advice you have for anyone tuning in on how they can best manage and think through rejection.

Alan: Well, the idea for E! came from a few different ways. First of all, you know, is a huge movie and TV fanatic. But all through college, I was a huge MTV fan. And back in those days when I was in college, MTV would show all music videos. And then they would have hosts you know, sort of interviewing the musicians and doing little, you know, behind the scenes of the making of recordings and they had these feeds that would just intro the videos. So in thinking about it, you know, the early days we thought like television, cable television was like a newspaper. It had headlines and headline news. It had sports and ESPN, it had the weather and the weather channel. It had the business and CNBC but it didn't have that entertainment section of the newspaper. So the original idea was to do sort of a 24 hour Entertainment Tonight. You know the MPV of the movies kind of channel. All interviews of the stars. You know, Stallone was doing his new movie, we go behind the scenes and interview him and film it and all that was surrounded by trailers that everybody loved watching trailers in the theater. You know, you want to get to the movies early, because you didn't want to miss the trailers. So all that together, sort of put in the bucket we came up with what was called Movie TIme originally. And that was the original concept. As far as knowing that was a good idea, you never really know, it's a good idea that the biggest compliment you can get with an idea is that people say, doesn't that exist already? You know, who says, no, actually, it doesn't, then you know, you go into explanation, but some idea that's very logical, is always a good sign. But, you know, I like to pride myself, that was a great idea. Some people say it was a genius idea. You know, I'm not a genius, by any stretch of the imagination. I went to the only school that accepted me. But ideas are in the air. So ideas come to everybody, and we say, wouldn't it be great if this happened or that happened, and he just sort of pursues ideas, but I've had a lot of failures as well. It wasn't like I had one idea, and it was a giant success. You know, I always say that, we're both baseball fans. And I always say that the best had the best batter in baseball hits about 400, or less than 400, you know that that's four out of every 10 times he gets up at bat. And that's the best hitter in baseball. So you just want to, like I said, you want to get up and keep on punching, and you want to never, ever give up on an idea. If you have something that you feel is right, you just want to keep going. I'm a spoiled brat. So the more people that tell me I can't do something, the more times I'm going to say I'm going to show them. And that that's fueled my drive. But when you have what you believe is a good idea, you just have to never give up and keep your eye on the ball and just keep going and don't let a rejection put you down, because you always say like, you know, what do they know about that? I don't know. Or why don't I end the day now. And it's just about pursuing it. You know, I'll tell you one quick, crazy story. Someone set me up. I didn't know how to raise money in those days. But somebody set me up with a big lawyer in Beverly Hills. And I went in to see him. I went in alone, you know, that little briefcase went in there. And he had a whole conference room filled with people as partners, everybody was in the room, I was very intimidated. I was about 26. And I went in and I pitched an idea to this whole group of attorneys. And after my whole pitch, the head guy that is going to see said, you know what? That's a really good idea. But actually, we're actually working on a deal. We're going to launch telecommunication satellites into space. So I left there really rejected. And I said, you know what? This guy's telling me that my idea is a bad idea. But he wants to compete with NASA. So of course, like, you know, his idea never made it, mine obviously did. But no one knows more than you know. And no one knows more about the success of an idea than yourself or anybody. So it's just a question of pursuing your idea and never giving up.

Adam: That's such great advice. And that's such a great perspective. No matter where you are on your journey, have confidence in yourself, have confidence in who you are, what you are, what you're capable of doing. And, Alan, your journey and what you were ultimately able to accomplish is as great an example as any. You were able to turn E! into an incredibly successful network. And I wanted to know if you could share with listeners how you were actually able to do that. You oversaw production of over 20,000 hours of programming and a brand new network. What were the keys to leading E! through such high growth as the company was getting off the ground?

Alan: Well, the first thing that I want you to know is I didn't do it myself. I had a partner that I brought in; Larry Namer. And Larry was experienced in the cable business. I went to school for architecture, so I knew nothing about television or getting television going. I just had an idea that I thought was great. Luckily, I partnered up with Larry Namer through another mutual friend. And Larry knew how to put the whole thing together. You know, the actual logistics of putting it together with satellites, the crews, everything like that. And what I would say to that is to surround yourself with people. One of the lessons my father used to teach when I was little was he used to say that even the president has advisors. You can't know everything. So Larry was a few years older than me. He was knowledgeable in the cable industry, he was sort of a mentor, at the same time that we were, we were partners, because Larry knew how to do it, and I didn't. So you know, I would say that what makes a company successful is always the person's guy, girl, you know, woman, man, whoever is that person is, to lead that idea. And getting out there is always the best way to grow a company. In our case, Larry and I were just hustling around Hollywood for years, literally, about four years until we got this going. So it's just a question of never giving up and a question of being surrounded by the right people. In my case, I was lucky as well to have Larry. And we brought on- and actually Larry recommended- we brought on great people from other networks, to run the different divisions, even before we launched. So we had a great team going in and that's really how the growth happened in the network.

Adam: Alan, it's so interesting that you mentioned the example of even the President of the United States needing to surround himself with the right people and having the right advisors in the room making all the difference. I interviewed General Martin Dempsey in an earlier episode of 30 Minute Mentors and one of the topics we were talking about was his experience advising President Obama while he served as Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff and just how important it is, as an advisor, to be able to speak openly speak candidly and as a leader, to seek the input of those around you to understand that you can't do it by yourself. And you need to have the smartest people in the room. If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. So recognizing that you needed to find someone who had a skill set that you didn't have was so important to making this happen. Can you talk a little bit more about your partnership with Larry and advice on how listeners of this podcast who are thinking about developing partnerships, whether they're entrepreneurs thinking about starting a new business and finding a business partner, or whether they're executives at companies trying to develop strategic partnerships with other companies? What can you share with listeners on how to find and vet potential business partners?

Alan: Well, that's always the hardest question because a business partnership is like a marriage. The best thing I could say is the best partnerships are between partners that do totally different things that compliment each other. Larry was at a very high level, higher than me. I mean, obviously, he was a successful cable industry executive. So I was lucky to have Larry with me. But you have to just really that really work. I wouldn't jump into a partnership so quickly. I think working with someone a little bit to see if you get along. First of all, your personalities have to get along. And like I said, Larry and I did really completely different things. I was more on the creative side, I had a vision for what I wanted the network to be. Larry was a genius in the operations of a network, which I didn't know anything about. And of course, I was creative, too. And he had his ideas, but we didn't really clash because we sort of let the other partner do what he does. And that's really the key. And if you look at every great partnership, it's two very different people. I mean, of course, I’ve now known Larry for a long, long time. 30 years. And we're very close to this day, but we did different things. And that's really what made the partnership successful. And also you have to respect each other. I respected Larry. I have to say but ultimately, it comes to a decision and you sort of let the partner that knows that into the business make the decisions.

Adam: A significant part of your job as an entrepreneur in the world of entertainment, and as an entrepreneur in general, but specifically in the world of entertainment, and you've been in the entertainment industry, beyond your time at E! You've been a producer and have had a number of other ventures in the media space is negotiating deals. What were some of the most memorable negotiations you've had and what are your best tips on the topic of negotiations?

Alan: Well, I always think the first thing and the most important thing in a negotiation has to be a win/win for both sides. You can't expect to just completely win in a negotiation without the other side getting a win as well. In starting E! I would say probably the most significant negotiations that put the network really on the map was we had been in negotiations with The Hollywood Reporter, which was a very big entertainment daily newspaper at the time. Now today, it's a weekly, but I had been flying back to Los Angeles. There was an airline back then called MGM Air. It was like a fully first-class plane. And I was just dying to get on this plane one time. And I saved up some money, and I got the ticket and I went on, and they sat me right across from the chief operating officer of The Hollywood Reporter. And we spoke the whole flight and she loved the idea. And when we got back to L.A., we started negotiations with the Hollywood Reporter. And we actually did a lot of things that were joint ventures together. And that really put me on the map. At that time, we had a show where we were interviewing studio executives, because we were trying to get advertising at a studios where we wanted to talk to, we would put on this show we called The Hollywood Reporter Executive Report. And plus we had cross-advertising as well. So that was one of the most important negotiations in the history of E!. But it's always got to be sort of a win/win. We publicize them a lot. They publicize us a lot. But a negotiation is also like a partnership. You know, it's got to be good for both sides.

Adam: No question. I think all too often people think of negotiations as a battle, as a war. I get this, you get that. And in reality, it's all about figuring out how to grow the pie, how to find solutions, where both parties walk away with more than they had coming into the negotiation. So clearly, you were able to do that in your deal with The Hollywood Reporter. And that's, I think, the biggest takeaway for anyone.

Alan: I mean, you want to make them feel good as well. And you know, you really want to. I'm a very honest negotiator. So I put on the table what I'm looking to get out of the deal. And hopefully I appeal to their, you know, their human side, and they can see it as well. So I've been okay with that strategy in the past. I don't go in real hard on negotiations. I go in. I'm always friendly, always respectful, and try to make it a win/win.

Adam: Alan, in your experience, what are the key characteristics of a great leader and what can anyone do to become a better leader?

Alan: Well, I always think that great leaders really, really roll up their sleeves and they get involved at the lowest levels of the company. I always say that I'm not a micromanager, but I'm a micro-knower. I want to know every detail of every level of the company. And I want to suggest to everyone in those different departments how to do different things. So I think you have to be involved. To my current company, I do a monthly Zoom with the entire staff. One employee said to me that, you know, he worked for a big public company for a long, long time, and he never even met the CEO. And to me, that's completely absurd. I mean, I try to talk to everybody. I even have private conversations with the heads of different departments, even at every level, to see what the problems are. You do a little bit of your own Undercover Boss, you know, you get down into the trenches, and you see what the problems are, and you try to solve it. But to be a great CEO, you have to really get into the details of every level. I remember a long time ago when Michael Eisner was running Disney. Michael Eisner would go to the opening of every disney store around the country. And it sounds absurd, but the bottom line is, the CEO of the company has got to see how it's how it's reacting with the public, you know how the public reacts to everything. So you want to be that guy, you want to be that woman, you know, you want to be the person out there. And you want to get in every detail of your company. It's your company, you know, you want to get into every detail.

Adam: That’s interesting advice, and I'll share a story with you and with listeners. My first job out of college, I worked for a hedge fund called D.E. Shaw. They were the largest hedge fund in the world at the time, and still one of the most respected hedge funds and financial institutions in the world. And I was a grunt, right out of college. And I worked on the same floor as Larry Summers, who is and was anything but a grunt. And I remember having a conversation with Larry Summers, and I was chatting with him about his time working in the Clinton administration. And one of the things I remember him telling me was that Bill Clinton knew more about each cabinet department than the majority of his Cabinet Secretaries did, which I thought was really interesting, and plays to your point of, no matter how important your job is, no matter how much you have on your plate, not being afraid to dive in, not being afraid to get into the details and understanding the importance of knowing what you need to know about each area. And I thought that was an interesting example of it.

Alan: That's exactly right. Exactly. You have to be a student of the game and a student of your company, I always tell people, because you really have to know what's going on at every level of the company. And that's what makes. That's what separates a great CEO, from not a great CEO. You know, you have to really know your company, every detail company on every level.

Adam: You made your name as the co-founder of E! but most of your entrepreneurial energy is now focused on real estate and public storage. Whether you're an entrepreneur or working at a job, how do you know when it's the right time to pivot?

Alan: Well, like I said, before, ideas are in the air. You know, I read this thing about Warren Buffett, who's one of the most successful or the most successful entrepreneurs in history. And it said that he goes into his office every morning and he reads the newspaper for three hours. Every newspaper, he gets a stack of newspapers, reads them for three hours with his door shut. And the point I'm making is, ideas are everywhere. You know, I tell people, I can read a newspaper, and I will get a couple ideas to pursue out of any daily newspaper. But you know, you just have to sort of have your finger on the pulse and see what's happening and pursue it and go in that direction. You know, you want to go in the right direction, obviously. I'm one of the reasons for example, that I actually now love the Self Storage business. I started in storage just around the same time I started E! in 1987, 1989. And one of the reasons I love the storage business- now everybody's like, it's the storage business, you know, you went from the most glamorous business, the least glamorous business. But the reality is, in knowing the situation of society where people are downsizing, people are moving to warm states. So the need out there, there's a need out there for storage. But the other thing is that self-storage is now a high-tech, digital, e-commerce business. It's not a low-tech business like it used to be. And that's one of the reasons I love the business. And I started Storage Blue, because I love the, you know, digital online business, and I love e-commerce. So that's what I'm pursuing right now.

Adam: So much is changing across so many different industries. You mentioned real estate, public storage. The media and entertainment landscape has changed dramatically since the time you launch E! and E! has played such a big part in the changing of the landscape. What advice do you have for entrepreneurs interested in the world of media and entertainment? If not, how to create the next E!? How to think about succeeding in this climate?

Alan: Well, it's the same thing. You have to just read and learn as much as you can about what's happening. I mean, I always pride myself as being on the cutting edge of what's happening because I put some work into that. Entertainment is all digital. It's all mobile. I would think about you know, that digital side of entertainment. I mean, the cable business now is going to have a very, very hard time going forward. The days of a network telling you what to watch, and what time to watch is so far behind us. That's why there's apps today. And that's why even all the networks are moving to apps. So my suggestion would be to sort of be on the cutting edge, see what's missing in that world. But, it's all about the mobile phone and digital and storytelling like that going forward. So whatever you can come up with in that world is what's happening in the future.

Adam: Allen, we started our conversation with the story of your dad, teaching you such important life lessons. And throughout your journey, you were impacted by mentorship, starting with your dad and your mentorship with your business partner, Larry, who had experience that you didn't have and helped create this incredible success story with you. Alan, what advice do you have for listeners on how to find a great mentor and how to become a great mentor?

Alan: Well, the first thing I would say is what is that? I mean, there's no set rule to that. But I tried to mentor whoever I could mentor. I mean, I tried to pass that knowledge along. Finding a great mentor, you just have to sort of see who's out there. And you don't even have to have a personal relationship with a mentor. You could just follow somebody. I used to listen to motivational tapes when I was starting out. But we have the luxury of listening to a lot of people, you can go on and listen to Steve Jobs or Bill Gates. And they have great stuff to say. So you don't necessarily have to have a personal relationship with that person. But just look at the most successful people and listen to what they have to say. They all have something in common. They're all hard-working, driven. And you have that at your fingertips, which is a beautiful thing.

Adam: You can start by listening to this conversation. Alan, you shared so much great wisdom so much. Great advice. Thank you for joining us. And thank you for being a part of 30 Minute Mentors.

Alan: Thank you. Thank you so much. Appreciate.