I recently interviewed Nicole Miller on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is one of the best known fashion designers in the country and the founder of the brand visionary behind the company that bears her name, Nicole Miller. Nicole, thank you for joining us.

Nicole: Great to be here.

Adam: Nicole, can you share with listeners how you got here? What inspired your love for fashion and how did you become a world class fashion designer?

Nicole: Well, I have to say my mother was from Paris. And so growing up, you know, and we lived in strange places. I mean, I was born in Texas, we lived in California, we lived in upstate New York, we lived in Massachusetts, we lived in a lot of different places. And I had this very chic French mother with all these like amazing pictures of her being a fashion model in Paris. And she truly was the chicest person. And so I grew up with this love of fashion. And I always felt very frustrated that I was not in New York City or Paris. So I just, you know, I spent, you know, my whole childhood and teenage years poring through fashion magazines and being obsessed with everything fashion. And, you know, it was clear which direction I was headed. So when I got out of school, out of high school, I went to Rhode Island School of Design. And then I also went to school in Paris for a year. So I started out with this, you know, hell bent on this like fashion thing. And then I came back and went to New York and was pounding the pavement looking for jobs and got some assistant jobs doing a variety of things. Like one of my favorite jobs was designing raincoats, which is kind of a little known factoid about my past, but I absolutely love the raincoat business. And then I had a job designing dresses. And then eventually, in 1982, we started Nicole Miller on $100,000. We scraped together family and friends and went into business and the world has really changed a lot from when I started out. And it's always you know, you're always trying to maintain your individuality and making yourself be special. And you know, standing apart from the rest. And, you know, there's got to be a reason to buy your clothes, always.

Adam: I want to dive into that a little bit later on in the conversation. But before we do that, I want to ask you a little bit more about your journey to the top. And I'm sure that there were a number of moments along the way where you experienced some self doubt, particularly when you're trying to create something new and trying to do something extremely innovative, and fresh. How did you overcome those moments of self doubt? And what advice do you have for listeners on how to overcome any kind of self doubt that they may be experiencing?

Nicole: Well, I think you have to really be innovative, and you have to keep, you know, plowing ahead, and even when there's obstacles in your way. I mean, I remember there was a time when I was, you know, stuck with 100,000 yards, maybe more, of fabric and like prints that nobody really wanted. And it was really, you know, like cutting off our cash flow. And we didn't have a lot of money. At that point, I forget what year that was. But I came up with this idea to, you know, play it in a certain fashion. And I ended up with this very good selling skirt. And we ended up selling thousands of it. We had ended up buying into it. But I think, you know, adversity comes your way, you have to sort of figure out how to get past that and figure out how to solve the problem and move forward. And you know, you have to have this creative energy to sort of keep looking for solutions to the problem.

Adam: Can you describe your creative process in a little bit more detail? What do you do to create and to innovate and to build and what tips do you have for listeners on how they can really become the best creators possible?

Nicole: Well, I think you have to be a sponge. You have to just be really open to everything and open to all your experiences, whether you're traveling or, you know, what you're reading. I mean, I've gotten great ideas from the New York Times, like the science section. I mean, you can find inspiration in very obscure places and you just have to be open to it all the time. And I think creative people are just like, always open and thinking and looking, and, you know, absorbing all the time. And so I think you have to just not be closed minded about things. And you have to be just always willing. You can't say, I won't do that, that's not me. You can't say never say never, you have to just be open to new ideas all the time and open to new things. And I think that's, you know, it's helped me stay in business, because I think I've always been resourceful, but I've always been, like, you know, looking for new ideas all the time. And I feel like, I try not to get stuck on a rough night. I try to keep a lot of, you know, a lot of my staff is always young, and I always try to listen to them. And I think, you know, it's just, you really have to just be open to things.

Adam: Nicole, I think that that's really important advice for listeners; to be open to ideas, both as a forum to become the best that you can be, and to be open to ideas to empower others. I like how you mentioned that, as a leader of your brand, you're open to what everyone in your organization, including the young people who are working for you, can bring to the table. And that's a great way to really not only attract great talent, but ultimately empower great talent.

Nicole: Well, they energize me, I mean, to have people around me that, you know, are always coming up with ideas. And no, sometimes they'll just say, like, no, you know? But I mean, it's good to bounce ideas off them. And you never know. I mean, there'll be something that maybe I've tried three times in my career, and it never sold, and they'll say, well, this is what's happening now. And I'll go, oh, that never sold. And they'll say, well, we should try it again. And you know, sometimes they're right. So I think people sort of sometimes ,the older they get, they like to sort of pigeon hole themselves, and they get into this, like, narrow funnel, and then they just don't want to try things, or they tried that before, they don't want to do it again. So I think you just can't put too many boundaries around yourself, and you just have to, you know, just have to be willing to keep experimenting. And you have to be willing, you know, to even try things that, you know, you're sure aren't gonna work, but they might work the second time around, or the 10th time around.

Adam: Nicole, I love that. And it's so applicable to listeners, no matter what endeavor you're in, I can tell you, as an entrepreneur who runs different businesses in different industries, I'm always trying things that have completely different probabilities of success. Some of them are really low success ideas, but we have to try them anyway, like you said. And as a leader, I'm trying to pull out the best. And not only the best ideas, but all ideas I can from anyone who's willing to share whether it's someone on my team, we try to get ideas from customers, and we're not necessarily, to your point, going to act on all the ideas we receive, but what's the worst thing that happens? We say no, but it's important to listen, and I really love how you framed that to our audience.

Nicole: Well, I mean, I think it's just always important to have an energized staff around, you know, to surround yourself with energized people. I think it's really great. I mean and sometimes people are like, afraid to speak up and whatever. So I always encourage, you know? If I say I don't like it, don't give up, just keep throwing things at me. I just want to keep going.

Adam: Yeah, love that. Nicole, I want to dive into a topic that you're an expert in, and that's branding. You've built one of the most successful brands in retail. What are your best tips on the topic of branding?

Nicole: Well, I mean, branding is tricky, because you want to be known for a certain thing, and you want to try to always, like, have it look like you and I feel like the bigger the brands get, the less control they have. And, you know, it's just one of those things. You have to really be on top of it at all the time, like to really kind of maintain your brand image. And, you know, especially when you're dealing with licensing and everything, you really have to be able to control that to a great extent. And, you know, when you're dealing with other categories, say like, clothes, you know, I'm a clothing designer, but, you know, if I get involved with something like housewares, or, you know, futons or duvet covers or sheets, or all that sort of stuff. I mean, it really is important that it still feels like the brand has the brand sensibility. So I think, you know, once a brand grows, you have to really control all it's images that kind of go out there.

Adam: What would you say were the keys to building your brand? You took your name Nicole Miller and turned it into a household name. How did you do that?

Nicole: Well, I was very fortunate the first year in business, I had this dress that sold really well. And it sold so well that everybody in the United States copied it. It really was the most copied dress. And it's very, it's very funny, because here it is, 30 years later, everybody's making this dress again. I mean, like, everybody's making that same dress, but it's very funny. But that really launched my business. And since I started the business on a lot of money, we really had to be very focused. So we started the business just on my billing address. And then after a while, we branched out to sportswear and other things. And then we did license out other categories like handbags and shoes and coats and things like that, you know, we didn't have the expertise on. But it's, you know, it's like building a house, you know, it's one step at a time. And, you know, as I said before, when you're licensing out these products, you really have to be very careful that you have control over it, and it does always represent the brand image?

Adam: Something that's really fascinating to me is the topic of brand evolution and how you started your company in 1982. And you've managed to stay relevant, despite the ever changing tastes and habits of customers. And I wanted to ask you, how have you done it, and how can others regardless of the businesses that they're in, stay current and stay ahead of the curve?

Nicole: Well, I always say, if it's not broken, fix it. Because I think the longer you're in business, you get in these ruts, and people don't reinvent themselves. And, you know, various times in my career, we have gotten in a rut because of something that sold really well. And it kept selling. And I kept saying, well, I don't want to make it anymore. And then the sales department goes out selling it, you know, and eventually, it ends up biting you. Because, you know, people don't wonder anymore. And they go, oh, they're only known for that. So then you get stereotyped and whatever and typecast and the whole thing. So a lot of times you just have to stop a good selling item, and just stop making it and just say I'm not doing it anymore, because you have to move on to more creative endeavors. And you have to move with the times. And if you stay in that rut, you'll just stay with that old customer and not get the new customers and, you know, not progress. So, you know, it's funny with this whole pandemic thing. Really, you know, I think everybody's been like reevaluating, you know, what they're doing, what they're making. And we really cut off a lot of these, you know, classic items we had on our line that we were just, you know, making because people wanted them. They were just like, we're not doing that anymore, you know? We just stopped and said, we're not doing that. We're moving on changing tact here. And it's been the best thing to do to move forward.

Adam: I think anyone listening, no matter where you are in your organization, no matter what you're doing, you need to embrace the notion that what happened yesterday isn't necessarily going to happen today or happen tomorrow. And those of us who are able to embrace change, if you're able to pivot, if you're able to adapt, if you have a mindset that really embraces change, you're going to be successful. And I think that you've really been able to embody that. And I wanted to know if there was anything else on that topic that you could share with listeners that in your- I’m just going to do the math off the cuff- 1982- 38 years. What are some things you've done successfully that listeners can really internalize?

Nicole: Well, you know, it's funny. This was the 30 year anniversary of our first fashion show because when we started in business, we didn't have, you know, enough money to really have a fashion show. So we didn't have one for about, I don't know... like from ‘82 to spring ‘91- that was the first fashion show. So this was exactly 30 years of fashion shows, and this was the first year that we didn't put on a live runway show. We did a presentation, which everybody else did too. And actually, I was sort of happy to take a breather, because I think it just made everybody be more creative also, and try different things, you know? And try to, you know, present a fashion show in an unusual way. And I think, going forward, I don't think we're going to see as much of the traditional fashion show as we did before. And if we do, they're going to be more innovative. And I think that’s just straight off like, catwalk kind of situation is really not going to be the norm anymore. So it's gonna be interesting to see what's happening going forward. But yeah, I mean, over over the years, I've had, you know, some big hits with, you know, like, I've had, like, the dress of the season and the item of the season, like many times over, but that's it. So the times have changed because when we used to sell department stores, we would sell a department store, you know, some dresses, and if they sold them really well in a week, then they would reorder it, and you get them back in really fast. And there was a quicker return. And there's less department store business, and everybody projects everything farther in the future and people don't reorder, they just move into the next thing. So the way my business evolved would never happen again today. You know, people just like to move on to the next thing sooner. So you don't have that long cycle of an item like you used to have. Like what I said, Everybody copies my dress, like, it's just like, people copy it like one time and then move on to the next thing. So you don't have like, a million people making it for the next year.

Adam: Imitation is the best form of flattery.

Nicole: Yeah, for sure. But, you know, it's really funny, but I feel like a lot of people have the same idea at the same time. And, you know, a lot of designers think that they had the idea first, and then, you know, clearly other people had it at the same time. Or even sooner or whatever. So I think it's very hard to pinpoint who had the idea first, but everybody's always quick to say they copy the copy. So and so they copied so and so. But no, it's not always the case. Like very often, people never even saw the other person's design. And then they're accused of copying it. So I think a lot of people have the same idea at the same time.

Adam: I want to ask you a little bit more about that because you mentioned at the beginning of our conversation, something that I love talking about to audiences that I speak to, which is the importance of finding your own unique voice, understanding what it is about you that makes you special, embracing it, and really making that the focal point of whatever it is you do in business and in life. And I wanted to get your thoughts on that topic, how can anyone out there understand what it is that they're exceptional at and ultimately run with it?

Nicole: Well, I mean, I don't know. Some people really have a great idea. And if you have a great idea, and it's, you know, unique enough, you can get going with it. Some people never have a great idea. Or some people have too many great ideas and can't focus. I think it's really important to develop an identity, your identity could change over time, or can evolve. I mean, I like to say that I've learned a lot of different hats, because, you know, I've been called the Princess of Brands, I've been called the Queen of the Little Black Dress, and then there was a time when we used to just make these really oversized baggy dresses. So, you know, I also owned that market, but so, you know, I've evolved and changed with the times I feel. There’s always something that, sort of in the way I design, that always looks like me, but you know, things do change. But I think if you have a good idea, you start with your good idea, and you try to fine tune it and make it the best you can. And that just may lead you to something else, you know? One thing leads to another. But start out with a focus, see where it leads you, and maybe you'll move to another place. You never know.

Adam: Nicole, something interesting to me is that you're obviously exceptional in the areas of creativity, vision, innovation, and yet you've been able to build this highly successful business. And it takes a team to do that and I want to understand how you're able to surround yourself with people who complimented what you were able to identify as your strengths. What have you learned over the years about team building teamwork and leadership?

Nicole: I have to tell you, quite honestly, it's all heartbreaking because, you know, as you go along, and you think you have a great team, and then somebody gets married and moves out of state, or somebody, you know, goes someplace else for some reason. And, you know, I have to say, I'm still in touch with so many of my employees from the past 30 years. I mean, we stay in touch, we reconnect all the time. So, a lot of them I have great relationships with, but they left for different reasons. And so I feel like, on one hand, it's been great, because I keep getting younger people, they haven't all aged along with me. So I keep getting, you know, getting younger ones. But, you know, there's sometimes things I miss about certain assistants and designers that I've had working for me, because I would say, oh, this person always took care of this, this person always knew about that, like one person would have been a music expert, and one person, you know, would have been on top of all the latest tunes for the fashion show, and, you know, one person would have been an expert at MIT. where one person would have been a great organization person. So, you know, I've had people who have left, and, you know, other people have come on and whatever. And, you know, there's certain people that have come back three times. They literally have worked for me three times; they've left and come back and left and come back. So it's a challenging organism, you know, orchestrating all your employees and, and your assistants and keeping the strong team and a strong dynamic all the time. I have to say, like, right now, I'm very happy with the dynamic I have, and, you know, the crew I have, but you know, there's times when I've had weak links, and I've had to change things. And, you know, it's really a challenge, keeping that up, and it never stays the same.

Adam: What do you look for in people you hire and what advice do you have for those who are interested in breaking into the fashion industry?

Nicole: Well, you know, it's a very different time now, because I always say I used to be competing with other designers. Now I'm competing against socialites, actresses, singers, you know? I'm completely competing with all these other industries; like everybody has a clothing brand. And I tell these designers today, you may end up in the backroom behind, you know, some celebrity clothing brand, whatever. I don't know, it's a very weird time. But I think if you're really determined, and you know, you really have a strong point of view, and you're talented, you know, you'll make it happen.

Adam: What other tips do you have for listeners who may be entrepreneurs or exploring entrepreneurial endeavors in the world of fashion and apparel?

Nicole: Well, I mean, it's a really, really challenging business. And one of the hardest things, you know, in fashion is fitting the clothing. I mean, it's just, you know, everybody's got a different idea about what their fit model is, or what size anything should be, and then you'll get the thing to look perfect on the model, and then it comes in, it doesn't fit anybody. I mean, it is really a challenge. And I find like, you know, when I buy other people's clothing occasionally, and I'm appalled how badly some of these things fit. And I think if you're going to be in fashion, that's like, one thing is absolutely key; you have to really understand construction and fit and all that sort of thing because you can't just rely on your employees to get that right. You really have to understand that. Even sweatshirts are tricky.

Adam: But I think that that's irrelevant. No matter what business you're in as an entrepreneur, you need to really understand your product, you need to understand your customers, you need to get into the weeds of your business. It's really hard to be successful without getting your hands dirty, no matter what business you're in. And I think that that's very applicable advice.

Nicole: No, that's for sure. I feel like a lot of, you know, youth today, or the younger generation today, they want to be a star immediately. They want to get out of college and have their own brand and have a business. I mean, you know, some of them can do it, but you know what? One, you need financing, but it seems like there's like a lot of money around for that these days. But it's just not that easy. It's got a high attrition rate in this business and so you really, you really have to understand it. You really have to know what you're doing. But I think a lot of people just do not want to put their time in learning. They just want to be a star right away.

Adam: I think that's really important advice to take the time to pay your dues no matter what that means. It could mean getting an internship, it can mean getting an entry level job, it can mean talking to people like you or people that are willing to talk to you who can share advice and experience. It could mean reading books, listening to podcasts, but soak in as much information as you can, get as much experience as you can. One thing that I tell audiences all the time is, I have a lot of formal education, I have an undergraduate degree in business, I have an MBA, but most of my learning has taken place in the school of hard knocks. And I think any entrepreneur, no matter what schools they went to, would say the same thing.

Nicole: Nothing like hands on. Right?

Adam: Totally. Nicole, I wanted to ask you about your approach to risk taking and decision making. You are weighing lots of different options when you're trying to determine what products to bring out to the marketplace, across all different phases. What goes into how you approach that?

Nicole: And that's another thing that changes all the time. I mean, I've sort of gotten really well known for cocktail dresses, and, you know, I'm not sure that was something like I chose or it chose me, it was just part of the evolution of the business. And maybe it was something that I had a knack for. But anyway, since the pandemic, we sort of switched everything to more casual. So we've started a new casual line, and we just made a big move into changing our product assortment. And so we really cut back way back on the whole cocktail aspect of the business and moved into this much more casual mix of clothing, which so far has been quite successful. So, but you know, I think, you know, this whole pandemic thing has really affected a lot of people in a lot of different ways. And but, you know, like, I'm kind of happy, it's forced us to make a change. I mean, we were sort of starting that anyway, but it's sort of accelerated the whole process.

Adam: Yeah. And it ultimately comes back to what we discussed earlier, which is the importance of embracing change and the power of pivoting, which you've been able to do. And you just illustrated that and not too many people are interested in wearing cocktail dresses in their living rooms. At least not too many people that I know. Before we go, I wanted to ask you one last question. Okay, what are your best fashion tips for listeners, for women and for men?

Nicole: Well, you know, I say this a lot to people really first, I mean, not for men as much, but for women; they really need to understand their body type. And I think people really have to focus on what their best assets are. And they have to sort of dress to flat or their best assets. And, you know, there's certain things that are not right for certain people. And other things are, some things are good on everybody. And some people can wear everything, but I think, you know, as a woman, you should just focus on what your best assets are, and understand what works for you. And then you'll waste a lot less time, you know, getting dressed, when you kind of know what works for you. And men, I just, I think men are sort of set in their ways. And, you know, I mean, they're either going to be like the pinstripe shirt guy, or they're going to be like, into their own type and they dress accordingly. And men are a little more rigid, but you know, women like to dress a lot of different ways. But I think basically, if you really understand what works and doesn't work on you, and you start from that point, when you buy clothes, and you know, like, I have like certain tricks. When people ask me what they should wear, I kind of say, well, this works for you, this doesn't and, you know, usually if I'm working with somebody in a store, and I see two or three things on them, I know exactly what they should be wearing.

Adam: Nicole, thank you so much for joining us, and thanks for all the great advice.

Nicole: Well, thank you. Nice to talk to you.