Career or Conscience: Interview with Wharton’s G. Richard Shell

I recently went one on one with G. Richard Shell. Richard is the Chair of the Legal Studies and Business Ethics department at the Wharton School at the University of Pennsylvania, the largest department of its kind in the world. Richard is also the author of the forthcoming book The Conscience Code: Lead with Your Values. Advance Your Career. Richard’s previous books have sold over 500,000 copies in 17 foreign language editions.'

Adam: Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice. First things first, though, I am sure readers would love to learn more about you. How did you get here? What experiences, failures, setbacks or challenges have been most instrumental to your growth? 

Richard: My adult life began with a huge values conflict, so this a subject I have had close to my heart for decades. My father was a Marine Corps general (and his father was in the U.S. Army). I was on a Navy ROTC scholarship in college when the Vietnam War escalated in a way that caused me to deeply question my family tradition and the purpose of America’s war policies. I ended up becoming a war resister, dropping my Navy scholarship and breaking with my family. I felt (and still feel) I did the right thing, but the emotional price was very high. I became a Conscientious Objector to the war (a pacifist), worked in the poorest parts of a major city helping people in desperate poverty, and ultimately spent two years on a global spiritual quest to find myself. I discovered my path at a Buddhist monastery in Sri Lanka and returned to the USA and to reconcile with my parents. I lived in the basement of their home in a small rural community in Virginia and worked as a door-to-door salesman. Ultimately, I went to law school and was able to join the Wharton School faculty at the age of 37. I am now one of its most senior faculty leaders, chairing the department of business ethics and law and leading Wharton’s most recent redesign of its MBA program. My book is about the importance of living a life that is true to one’s core values. It is based on a required course called “Responsibility” that I created for MBA students. I teach this course from the heart, hoping to touch the hearts of my students.

Adam: What do you hope readers take away from your new book?

Richard: Over 40% of professionals witness wrongdoing at work every year and must decide what, if anything, to do about it. Roughly 25% are specifically asked to become complicit in wrongdoing. Are you ready for this challenge? Standing up for your core values in the workplace is one of the most important crises anyone can face in professional life. The choice is clear: career or conscience? Will you “go along to get along” or give voice to your values? My book provides a research-based, step-by-step guide to working through these conflicts successfully so you can be look back on how you handled them with pride, rather than regret or shame. I show how you actually advance your career by leading with your values.

Adam: In your experience, why are ethics essential to effective leadership?

Richard: As one of the CEOs (Yancey Strickler, co-founder and CEO of Kickstarter) who endorsed my book put it, trying to lead an organization in the 21st century without having ethics at the center is like “trying to fly a plane without wings.” One of the most important things a leader needs to be effective is the trust of the people he or she is leading. And the most important facet of personality that people look for when they are deciding to give that trust is moral character. A leader’s ethics are the outward evidence of their inner moral character.

Adam: What do you believe are the defining qualities of an effective leader?

Richard: Character, confidence, judgment, humility, and the ability to successfully manage interpersonal conflict.

Adam: How can leaders and aspiring leaders take their leadership skills to the next level?

Richard: “ABL” – Always Be Learning. Do this by reaching for problems that look too hard to solve. Then “LTF” – Learn to Fail. Treat setbacks as opportunities for growth. As Zig Ziglar put it, “You haven’t really failed if you learn from your defeat.”

Adam: What is your best advice on building, leading and managing teams?

Richard: Seek balance -- between positive team relationships (which creates energy and trust) and open/forceful dialogue to define problems, options, and the meaning of data (which generates creative friction). Optimize the tension between interpersonal harmony and authentic diversity.

Adam: What are the keys to developing ethical leaders?

Richard: Inspire others by doing things right, doing the right thing, and being the right kind of person. Lead by example, hold people accountable, practice compassion and generosity, and consistently celebrate the moments of integrity that make work meaningful.

Adam: What are your three best tips applicable to entrepreneurs and business leaders?

Richard: My Dad taught me to “always take care of your people.” So that is #1. Second, “be yourself” – it is too late to be anyone else anyway. My #3 tip would be a negotiation rule, “The only thing you should never compromise is your integrity.”

Adam: What are your best tips for community and civic leaders?

Richard: The same as for entrepreneurs and business leaders. A leader is a leader, no matter what type of organization they lead. The public arena does, however, require more political skills!

Adam: What is the single best piece of advice you have ever received?

Richard: Avoid judging other people. As my lifelong mentor put it, “Everyone does the best they can with what they’ve got.” A leader’s job is to give people the chance to “do better” by giving them more of what they need so they can accomplish more of their goals.

Adam: Is there anything else you would like to share?

Richard: The Conscience Code lays out ten rules for taking a toxic workplace and transforming it in a positive environment where everyone can thrive.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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