I recently interviewed Gabrielle Reece on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is one of the best-known women's volleyball players of all time. Gabrielle Reece was Nike's first female spokesperson, is a leader in the fields of health and fitness, and is a New York Times bestselling author. Gabby, thank you for joining us.

Gabby: Thanks for having me.

Adam: You were born in La Jolla and grew up in the Virgin Islands. Before moving to Florida, midway through high school, your background was a little different. And you were different for one because you were so much taller than the average girl your age. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What were the key experiences that shaped your worldview and the trajectory of your success?

Gabby: I think, you know, I will say this; if you asked me if I really think about it, am I surprised about having levels of, you know, worldly external success? I would say I was because there was no indication of that early in my life. Like you said I was born in La Jolla and actually lived in Mexico City for a minute and ended up in the Caribbean. And the reason I moved to Florida my junior year is just because I was sort of spinning, you know, in St. Thomas. And my mom moved me out of there to Florida, which is where I sort of discovered athletics. And I had played a little bit of volleyball in St. Thomas and I was six feet at 12 and six, three, by the time I was 15, which is where I kind of topped out. And my stepfather is in Puerto Rico, my father who died when I was very early, young at five years old. He's from Trinidad. So I have sort of a different background. I think for me, going to college on a scholarship was as much a surprise to me as to anyone where a lot of all my teammates were, you know, planning on this, kind of by the time they were freshmen in high school. When I started getting offers for basketball and volleyball, I was really surprised and decided it was a really interesting opportunity. So when I graduated at 17, I ended up going and playing indoor volleyball at Florida State.

Adam: You've been very open about your journey, you've been very open about the highs and lows, the ups and downs, the challenges, setbacks and failures that you've encountered over the course of your life and your career. What do you consider to be the most significant of all the challenges that you faced along the way? How did you navigate and overcome them? And what advice do you have for listeners on how to overcome the ups and downs that they may face?

Gabby: Well, I think immediately, you know, when I was two, my mom left until I was seven. And I was left with a couple that were friends of hers to raise me. And so I think I always felt unsure about everything. And I didn't, it was hard for me, I've been in a very long marriage. But in the beginning of that marriage, it was really hard for me to be vulnerable. Because when I think you have parental figures or people that you love that leave early, your tendency is either to use it or to kind of isolate yourself, and I was an only child. So I wasn't going through this experience with a sibling. So this really impacted me and by nature, I was born with probably an internal level of discipline. And so I put that into hyperdrive, right. Like I just really use that as a tool to help me navigate things. The problem with that is sometimes then we can hide in that too, right? So we can use work and discipline and grinding and busyness to hide from ourselves or our lives. And so how do we have this? So for me, my children were the ones that kind of knocked me out of that and really had to take a look at that. But, I used to hide within my discipline. I'm not naturally actually really self-destructive. That wasn't my MO. But I had a lot of fear that I hid inside of stoicism. And it's like it's a terrible feeling like you're always on edge and waiting and you're trying to anticipate what could go wrong so you can avoid it or move around it. And I think there comes a point where you realize that you're not really in control and that you'll handle whatever happens when it happens but don't live like it's happening when not everything is okay. You know, somebody taught me that there's a great book for if anyone experiences traumas or things like that, called Anxiety RX, where it's like, every transgression that we ever have the amygdala in our brain remembers everything, and it all stored in the body. And so, you know, the brain, we think it's happening in our brain because the brain is a meeting maker, it's there to make meaning of everything, but it's actually just stored in our body. So can we find the way to just get that stuff out? So we're not living in this weird inner chatter, fear, anxiety, you know, stress, but being like, hey, no one's coming through the door. It's all okay, right now. So even in business, stuff’s going crappy, or things are tough. But at this moment, is everything okay? Are we still in business? Are we still good? Is everyone healthy? That's what's happening right now. And I think that that was really, really helpful for me.

Adam: The core principles of having a winning mindset in business are so similar to having a winning mindset, in anything you do in life, having a winning mindset on the volleyball court, and I wanted to ask you, if you could share with listeners, how did you reach peak performance as a volleyball player, both from the physical side? And from the mental side? What did you do to become such an elite athlete?

Gabby: Well, I think you have to, first of all, have a passion for it. I think people that do anything, just because it's something to do, or it seems like a good idea, and it seems popular, that doesn't really work. I think you have to really believe in what you're doing, whatever it is, and we're good students. If I have a coach that I trusted, I would be all in. I'm not afraid of hard work. I understood that failure was really uncomfortable. I don't enjoy it, particularly. But it wasn't something that I couldn't get back up from. So it was like, oh, this sucks, I could shed some tears, I could be pissed. And then you just get up the next day. And you know, you're back at it. So the other part of that is also having a strategy in place. I also seldomly kind of flowed through everything. So it was like, okay, what are my goals? And how do I back that into a structured plan of action that you can adapt, but that it's leading me in steps towards this goal? I think a lot of times, so in business, people say I want to do this. Okay, great. What does that mean, and actionable plans. Because a dream is a dream. And people have ideas. But we all know that execution and delivery is the hardest part of anything. So I think for me, being systematic in athletics, and achieving goals, and going through seasons, and trying to peak at a certain time, dealing with failure, dealing with things like dealing with co-workers, dealing with teammates, all of that was very, very helpful.

Adam: You're no longer the competitive athlete that you were in the prime of your career, but you're still in tip-top physical shape, and fitness is still central to your life and to so many things that you do professionally. What are your best tips on the topics of health, nutrition, and fitness?

Gabby: So I'm going to start it by saying, this goes back to the why. And so first, I can tell you, I can lay out a blueprint, I can write your program, I can even do it with you. If an individual hasn't decided that this is a priority, it will never matter. They'll never stick to it, whether it's the nutrition, the moving part, or the eating part. So I think first and foremost, it's me asking people to internally ask themselves, what do you own besides your relationships that is more valuable to you really, than your health? And once you can, someone can get in touch with that real reason, then superficially, we can say Americans, 60% of their diet is processed food. So if you really want to do yourself a favor, and it's less fun, costs more, takes more time, is to give up those processed foods because they're really kicking our ass in a real way. And find a regular practice of movement. And the mistake that people make is they think they have to go to the gym and kill themselves two hours every day. That's not the case. If you actually are pretty good about what you're consuming with your food, reasonable movement, we'll get it done. Another really obvious thing that everyone's like, blah, blah, I’ll sleep when I die. Even if you're an entrepreneur, it's really important. The only time we recover is in our sleep. And so even our brains, you know, you have your brain almost like rinses itself at night truthfully. And then all your cells in your body and things like that they only recover at night. So if I was going to keep it so because I can get as scienc-y as you want, but I wouldn't do that to your audience, I would say, when you're sitting at your desk all day long, be breathing in and out of your nose only. Unless you're doing, you know, sprints on the track, there's no reason to be breathing with your mouth open. The reason for this is that Co2 rises in your system, when your mouth is closed, the only way for your body to absorb the oxygen that's in your bloodstream into yourself and into your muscle tissue is with the presence of co2. If your mouth is open, you're scrubbing your Co2. So you're never actually really absorbing the oxygen, the health benefits of oxygenating, your system is unbelievable, the ability to stay downregulated, or calm or in your parasympathetic, through breathing in your nose. The other very simple tip is four to five, maybe six full breaths in and out per minute. Most of us are about 12, some of us are up to 15, that means you're breathing too quickly, and you're not absorbing the oxygen. So longer, deeper, slower breaths, four to five a minute. That's number one. Number two, the eating part, the moving part, cliche, if you want to be smarter, hydrate. People have to hydrate with things. They just need water, like you need to drink water because everything eliminates the entire system, brain functions, sleep, if you're a woman, your skin, like whatever it's going to take to get people to drink water. This is true. And then I hate to say it, but you know practicing, we have to be connected to some to something we have to have a purpose. But we also have to be connected to each other. If we don't have a meaningful connection, it doesn't mean a romantic relationship. It's all for naught. And there's so many- one of the longest studies in the United States shows that people- I think it's the Harvard study- they studied a group of men that went to Harvard and people now outside neighbors, some were presidents, some were billionaires, whatever. At the end, success was about connections. So especially right now, people are isolated, they've been uncovered, we've got masks on, it's all the shit, it's like, we really need to find the way to have just connections with people. And people think of health as like, I do protein, it's like not really, it's a much bigger conversation about being for the organism, the body, the being, to be efficient and adaptable and dynamic.

Adam: And it's a conversation that I'd love to have with you right now. There's a famous quote that some listeners might be aware of, you are the average of the five people you spend the most time with. And in your case, one of those people is your husband, Laird Hamilton, who also happens to be one of the greatest surfers of all time and your business partner on several different ventures. Can you dive a little bit more deeply into this topic with listeners? What is your approach to building successful personal and professional relationships? And what advice do you have for listeners on how to build winning relationships?

Gabby: Well, first of all, when it comes to relationships, I don't give advice, what I do is I offer my experience, and then people can take what makes sense for them because this is such a personal thing, right? So in our relationship, I would say this, you know, oftentimes people look at us and they think, oh, you're both such strong people and must be combative. Quite the contrary, both of us come to this relationship to serve the relationship. What's the point? That doesn't mean I put everything before myself every moment. You know, there's sort of like this weird order that floats in and out. So I'm here with the attitude of serving the relationship serving my family. I have three daughters simultaneously saying what do I need to do to keep myself my own homeostasis, my sense of self strong enough that I can actually reach out further and deal with all of this because that is something that's very natural to happen. But it's also detrimental in the longer story. People will build up resentments. They'll be frustrated, things like that. The other thing I can tell you is I do not unlearn and do not look to the other to save the other. Now certainly I'm here to enhance your life. And if I'm good at something that maybe is not your thing, I'll totally take over and vice versa. But no one can make anyone happy and no child can even make a parent happy. That's not what this is. You know, these relationships are also free. love and connection, but they're also for growth, right? Are these reflections of each other, that it's like I get to be a better version of myself, but Laird certainly can't make me happy. So if we're entering into a relationship thinking someone's going to make us happy that I don't think is realistic. You know, leading with kindness, real strength, really, I think, when people talk about being tough, or being warriors, or all of these things, I really think it comes from leading with love and kindness and compassion, and not like, I'm not so tough. And, and so I would say that we live in a culture now at least if you watch TV and the news, where it's pretty combative. And that, to me, just reeks of fear, insecurity, and weakness. It's not like, hey, I need to tell you how I feel oh, you disagree with me? Okay, let's discuss that. We're at a place now where everyone's just yelling at each other. So I think it's something if we can do that, because also what happens is, let's say you might be better at that than your partner, we can help each other. Learn to do that better, because we build trust. And then you learn, like, oh, I can safely tell you how I feel. And I'm not gonna have to pay for it later. So it's playing fair and trying to come at things I always say, like, with solutions. And I don't, I've learned for me personally, I try not to want to work things out in the heat of like a psycho moment in our day. Let's say I need to bring something up, I will wait for a productive time to do that. So that we can like, just simply deal with it. And, and you know, like the relationship part, it’s especially important if you're going to work together. So it's like us as individuals, us as a romantic couple, us in the friendship, us as parents, us as business partners. We have to. If you can slide in and out of these roles, and not really neglect the romance part because that will be the one that suffers first. That seems to really help everything else.

Adam: Gabby, I love so much of what you shared. And I think it's applicable across all kinds of relationships, not just romantic relationships, but friendships, business relationships. To highlight a few points you made; communication is key. So much of success in all kinds of relationships is centered around both parties being able to be on the same page when it comes to speaking the same language. And you shared a few great tips, one of which is just waiting for the right moments to communicate with the other party. Sometimes the person who you're speaking to or want to speak to is heated or it's just not in that right state of mind. Just wait, let that person cool off. And then when the time is right, go back and engage. I love when you share with listeners the importance of leading with kindness. I'm a big believer in leadership through inspiration rather than through fear and intimidation. And along those lines, I wanted to know if you could share with listeners, in your experience, what are the key characteristics of a great leader? And what can anyone do to become a better leader?

Gabby: I'm going to cheat on this because I talked to a lot of people and learned a lot of things. So I'm going to cheat on the leadership part. And I'm going to borrow from Rich Divini, who wrote a book called 25 Attributes. And he was part of the Navy Seals and analyzed a lot of things and some leadership is a couple of things I know for sure- leadership is someone who's completely accountable themselves, period, end of story. And a leader, a leader is somebody who can make a decision, it doesn't mean that it’s the perfect and right decision, it just means that they're actually able to make a decision. And the beautiful part is because they're completely accountable if they're wrong, or they need to pivot or adapt or add, they can because they've built that into the situation with others, right. A leader is somebody who creates an environment where the other people thrive and can be their best. It's not about me being a great leader. It's about how do I create an environment where you get to be your best self. And you might have a co-worker that's completely different than you. And I know how to make that environment so that they can be their best selves as well. Very hard. It's like a good coach, right? And I think you have to be the thing. I think if you say to people, hey, I want you to work hard, I think you have to work harder than everybody. If you're the leader, just the way it is. I don't think you get away with saying, well, you know, 20 years ago, when I was in the mailroom, it's like, okay, but I need to see you now, grinding it out. That doesn't mean maybe my time is gonna be well spent in the mailroom ao I got to go back to the mailroom, that's not what I'm talking about, it just means that you have a level of work capacity in your own lane, that says to everybody. Um, you know, maybe when it comes down to it, I will have to call it. I'll have to be the one to make the decision. But there's sort of a level of horizontal-ness that I'm into, and I'm gonna bust my ass. And if I asked you, I'm not going to ask you to do anything I wouldn't do myself. I think that that's super important. You know, in my philosophy, personally, I always say, I don't have anyone who works for me, I have people who work with me, I believe this. But again, you have to have somebody who calls the shots, because nowadays everybody tries by consensus to be like, well, how do you feel? Why do you feel that anyone who's ever been in business knows that that doesn't work either. And nope, not everyone's gonna be happy, ever. Even if you take out everyone's opinion, and you go, okay, I'm going to consider everyone's opinion, believe me, when the decision comes down, someone's going to be unhappy, and that's okay. So a leader has to really be able to go like, this is what we're doing. And it's very, very important. And I think if you can lead with an interest and care for who you're supposedly leading, I think indirectly and not in a manipulative way, but you will get so much more from people when they think you actually care about them. I've had coaches that I knew cared about me first as a person, second as an athlete and I’d go through a wall for them. And so I think it's not about being disingenuous about that. It's about approaching this, like, who is this person? What do I find, the qualities that I'm drawn to, because they'll see that in you as well, like, oh, they say there's something in me they like or they admire, this goes a long way. And finally, I would say- and Rich said this in his book, you can say, hey, I'm in charge of this space. But you're not really allowed to say, I'm your leader. It's only those people that are allowed to call you the leader. And so the leader, it's sort of a very interesting nuance where they'll, they, they bestow that upon you ultimately, and, and sometimes it means making, you know, you gotta be tough, and people will be pissed. And you'll say things they don't like, well, you'll ask things of them that they don't like. But I think if you're clear, and you have clear communication, and you also kind of set it up like this is also on you. So if you can agree to do this, then fine. But if it's your third time in and you're going like we're talking about the skin, again, I'm sorry, it's probably not going to work out. That also can be part of the bummer.

Adam: So much great advice. And to highlight a few of the points that you shared, lead by example, empower others, great leaders take responsibility, make difficult decisions and focus on accountability. And last, but certainly not least, have a deep love for people. If you love people, if you love the people, you're leading. And if you love people in general, you are halfway there. If you don't love people, you're in the wrong business, you're never going to be effective as a leader,

Gabby: Be a financial analyst if you don't like people, you know?

Adam: Exactly. Go do something that doesn't involve managing others, that doesn't involve interacting with others, that doesn't involve leading others because if you want to be a leader, you need to fundamentally love others.

Gabby: I think you know, it's interesting. Also, you will inevitably, especially in the work life, right, you'll work on something that someone will come along and they will have a better idea than the way you've done it. And there'll be a rock star in this way or the world has changed. And so the systems have to change. And a good leader is not threatened by this. And they're willing to empower people to surpass their own capacity. And I think that that's important as well.

Adam: Gabby, before we go, I want to ask you a few rapid fire questions. Okay. How do you motivate yourself on the days that you don't feel motivated? And what are your best tips on the topic of motivation?

Gabby: I know that opportunity is a gift. I don't need to learn that lesson. So when I don't want to, I understand that I'm even fortunate that I have the opportunity to and I have enough self discipline in my mind to not be confused even after 30 years that when you have options and choices and something hard to work at, it's a gift and you might, you might want to take care of that opportunity. And that is why I like to be physically healthy, because it helps me deal with my mind and my emotions easier.

Adam: What advice do you have on the topic of motivation? How can anyone listening to this conversation motivate themselves when they're not feeling motivated?

Gabby: I think it's important to understand that we're built to be lazy, biologically. And so it's not about beating ourselves up and going, oh, I don't feel like doing this and going through all that nonsense. Be like, oh, yeah, okay, here it comes. I want to do something, or do I want to lay around? Do I want my life to have something that's interesting and challenges me, then I have to actually put the work in. And so I think it's really being clear that we don't get to let off, we don't get to take our foot off the gas. But we certainly can acknowledge that we'd rather lay down on the couch and eat potato chips and watch TV. And that's okay. And there'll be a time for that. But if I'm really going to get where I think in my mind and my heart I dream to go because all the people you're talking about are dreaming of something. The only way we can get there is to keep moving forward. Because the alternative sucks. Like not to have options, not to have choices and not to work at the thing that you want to work at is the worst. Discipline is freedom. For me, it's all about that.

Adam: Earlier in your life, you're able to balance a highly successful volleyball career with what might have been an even more successful modeling career. Now, on top of all of your professional endeavors, you're balancing a husband, three kids, staying in top physical condition. After the age of 50, you're balancing a lot. What advice do you have for anyone listening to this conversation on how to obtain balance to the extent that balance is possible?

Gabby: You know, everyone, especially females talk about this, like having it all, I don't even know what that means. I think you can't have it all. You just can't have it all at the same time. So for example, I'm working a lot more on my business than I did when my children were very young. I had that hat on. So I think it's also understanding the landscape of the timing of your life. And which buckets can you afford to and need to put more energy and time into, I would never, I would say, try your best not to sacrifice your health ever, because you don't want to catch up on that one. But you could say, hey, I know I'm gonna have 18, 20 hour days right now. So I'm going to be able to do less, but just to be mindful. And then I read something, once where somebody did a presentation to Jeff Bezos' team where they talked about, rather than it being balanced, that it's a flywheel. Right, you have all these buckets and so how do we make all of the things feed all of the things? How do I make my business that makes me inspired and feel good feed my relationship, that gives me something that feeds me as a parent that feeds me as an individual person. So it's sometimes not thinking we can spread it equally in every bucket. But at least these things are spinning in favor of one another. And also, internally checking in all the time, because sometimes we work really hard for a goal that actually maybe we don't even really want. So keep checking in, what is it that you really want? Not what the world is telling you to want- what do you really want? What's going to fulfill your heart's desire? And keep listening to that because I believe that leads you in sort of the right direction.

Adam: What can anyone do to become more successful, personally and professionally?

Gabby: I think you have to understand who you are. I think you have to understand what you can contribute, I think you can. You have to really dig into yourself and say, hey, what's my purpose? What do I think I'm doing here? And if I don't know that, you know, who are the people that I can be mentored by? Because there's a lot of people that would be willing to help us, what are the questions I need to ask? I heard a quote once- Arnold Schwarzenegger said, “Success is when your external life reflects your internal self.” And so for some people that might be like, hey, tons of cash and data for other people who might be like, hey, rich and dynamic family and great career for some people might be of service. I think it's starting from the place of going truthfully, inside what am I good at? What are my natural inclinations? What am I willing to do? What am I willing not to do? You know, all of these questions that you have to keep asking because we're changing and also I will say this; be willing to let go of the things that you are good at so that you can be good at the new things because sometimes people stay too long defined by a position or something. And it holds them back from growing into who they are supposed to become. And so not identifying, like, oh, I'm Gabby, I was the volleyball player. Oh, I was Gabby the model. It's like, I'm Gabby. And one of the things I'm doing is this and this and really trying to not be killed by our identity. So like, what are you doing? What's your job? What's your title, all that crap that people will put on you? It can be handcuffs.

Adam: Gabby, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of 30 Minute Mentors.

Gabby: Thanks for having me.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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