Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Olympic Gold Medalist Gail Devers

I recently interviewed Gail Devers on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: My guest today is a three-time Olympic gold medalist. Gail Devers competed in five different Olympic Games and won gold medals in Barcelona and in Atlanta. Gail is a member of the National Track and Field Hall of Fame and the United States Olympic Hall of Fame. Gail, thank you for joining us.

Gail: Thank you for having me.

Adam: You grew up right outside of San Diego.

Gail: I did. I am a native iOS National City. I always tell people you could see the lights of TJ on one side and San Diego National City is not very big. So I think I'm a positive product of my environment. And I always look to make the National City of San Diego proud.

Adam: Beautiful city San Diego, I grew up not too far away in L.A., which is where you went to school. You went to UCLA.

Gail: UCLA, yes. Bruins.

Adam: I went to grad school at UCLA, and I teach leadership classes at UCLA. UCLA has produced a number of legendary track and field athletes, one of them being you. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What sparked your passion for track and field and what experiences and lessons were most instrumental to developing the foundation for your success?

Gail: Oh, gosh, I would have to say what sparked me was my brother who made me. I don't know if that was a spark. He was 14 months older than I am and told me that when you get to high school, you are going to run. I’m like, okay. And so he had me start running cross country and I ran cross country. And I guess I got that bug as far as wanting to compete and set goals. And I competed in the 800 my first year in my sophomore year in high school. And then each year somebody would suggest I try a different event. And then I kind of just moved down and got to the 100 in the hurdles and stay there. When I was early on, we used to race in the streets, he lived in these apartments and my brother would set up match races between us. And I would run and beat them. And he'd say, okay, now one of the slides and jump over the horses when you come down. And I think that was probably my first hurdle practice. But that's kind of how I got started. And just realizing that I had a talent. And I always tell people, you have a talent, you're supposed to utilize that talent. And if you utilize it, you'll be blessed in other ways. And that's basically what I did. I went on and got a scholarship to go to college at UCLA. And that was the beginning.

Adam: I love it. A couple of great lessons there. Utilize your talent, we all have a talent, identify it and utilize it. In your case, you were able to identify it pretty quickly by beating everyone on the track. But yeah, it might take us a little bit longer to identify what our talents are. But once you do, lean into it. Another great lesson is the importance of having a mentor. In your case, your brother, who can show you the way, who can guide you be that mentor, be the person who can open the door for others, who can help others set that path, chart that course.

Gail: That's been my life. I've always been a goal-setter. So I write my goals down and I sign them and place them in several places in my house as a constant reminder. And so my goal was I want to go to the Olympic Games. I want to do my best, it was always my thing. How can I be the best me that I can be? 

Adam: What did you do to become great? How did you reach peak performance? And what can anyone do to attain greatness in whatever it is they're pursuing?

Gail: I think the first thing is you have to believe and you have to want it. You have to find strength. You're gonna find times when you feel like the walls are closing in on you and there's no way out. And it's during those times that you have to reach inside yourself. I think we all have the potential to be great. But it's, how deep are you willing to dive? How hard are you willing to work? How much are you willing to do? And sometimes you have to. Have you talked about that with your mentor? You have to have that team. No one achieves success by themselves. If you look back, there's always a team around you. If you're honest and you admit it, somebody that's pushing you to get to that point.

Adam: No one gets there alone. How did you manage the pressure and the anxiety that came with performing on the biggest stage where the margin between winning and losing is so microscopic, to begin with, and what are your best tips for anyone listening on how to manage and perform under pressure?

Gail: I always say pressure is something you allow to be placed on you, that's just my mental well-being, that's how I deal with things. I'm a person that I find something positive in the worst of situations. I'm going to find positive because positive begets positive, anything negative I tried to get rid of quickly and thoroughly. And so the pressure for me, of what other people would say is the pressure that comes with the territory. And in track and field, you don't have to run. I signed up to run. And I did it because I believe that that's a part of my God-given talent that he gave me. And if you utilize your talent, he's going to bless you in other ways. So practice, what is practice, practice is a rehearsal for the main event. So when I'm at practice, I'm trying to do everything that I can do to get myself to execute on the day that I'm supposed to execute. And so practice is rehearsal. Rehearsal is rehearsal for the main event. And I always tell like, even the kids that I coach, I'm like, what are we doing at practice? You can't go to the bank and pull out money if you didn't put anything in. And you can't make a withdrawal if you didn't make a deposit. So our practice is your deposits. So we're making deposits. Now how much do I want to make a big deposit? So when I want to withdraw that I can, and when I go to a meet, whether it's a small meet, or the World Championships, which is bigger, the Olympic Games, which is bigger, it's still I'm still doing exactly what I've been practicing. It's just the venue is different. It might be more or less people. But I'm not focusing on that I'm focusing on my lane, I've got that tunnel vision, that I've got to do what I came to do because this is my job. And if you talk about the Olympic Games, you got to understand, you only get one shot. The Olympic Games come around what was once every four years until we had our pandemic. But once every four years there's no guarantee that you're gonna come back. So you want to take full advantage of that. And that becomes mental. That becomes that you got to have your mind so tight that, you know, I've been practicing for this. I've been rehearsing for this for four years. I feel like a caged tiger or a caged bear or whatever you want to call it, get me to the track. Let me go. It's like being in a horse that I have the horses in the stall before the race, and they open the gates, open the gate and let me go. That's what it is that you practice that like I said, over and over and over and over again. And now it's my time to shine, then it's no pressure. If your teacher tells you you have a test next week, what are you going to do? Are you going to study a little bit every day? Are you going to wait until the day of the test to start the first time you open up the book? And then if you don't get the results that you want? Then you're like, oh, the teacher doesn't like me? No, you didn't prepare yourself. But if you're prepared when you get to the test, it's called a brag moment, give me the paper so I can show you what I know. That's what track and field was to me.

Adam: Practice, preparation, repetition, put the work in, do the hard work, and it'll pay off. Understand why you're there. To your point, you're there for a reason. There's a reason why you're on the biggest stage. Don't forget it. Something that you shared, brought me back to another interview I did an interview with Terrell Davis, one of the best players in football history. Super Bowl champion, and a great running back. What TD told me was very similar to what you told me. The venue might be different, but the game is the same. When he was preparing for the Super Bowl when he was playing in the Super Bowl. Didn't matter that was the biggest game that one can play, no matter what sport you are playing. The game was the same game that he played on the street as a kid when he was in high school and when he was in college. In preseason and regular season. Same game different venue.

Gail: Yep, that's fine. And it becomes the same thing. As you said, it's all the same. It is what you do with it. Once you get that fame, what do you do with it? How do you turn around and help somebody else? How do you open that door when doors are open for you? Because of the difference between people with access and opportunity? 

Adam: Yeah. Gail, so much of the advice you've shared has really been around the mental side of success, and the importance of developing a winning mindset. What can anyone do to develop a winning mindset?

Gail: You've got to believe in it. It's not what other people believe about you is what you believe about yourself and what you're willing to work for. And you got to do it for yourself. It's not I'm doing this for my mom or my dad, or my coach told me. No. What do I believe I can do? I can tell you two opposite ends of the spectrum. Your coach may believe in you more than you believe in yourself in the beginning, because they may see talent. But you have to start believing, because they're not going to be out there performing for you, running for you. They won’t be doing any of that. Mentally, you have to get to yourself. Read. Read things that are inspiring. Follow the like, and find things that are uplifting, because negative things, do nothing but drag you down. So find uplifting things that will uplift you. Music, that's inspiring things that you like to do find something positive. And when you set out to accomplish a task, and we'll talk about track and field, it can be daunting, it's like, oh, my gosh, there are so many components to sprinting, that if you try to focus on everything, you're going to lose somewhere in between. So you find one thing that I'm working on today, and I'm going to focus on that one thing until I get it right. And after your task, no matter what the task is, when you're done, I look at myself in the mirror. And I say, did I do everything that I could? And if the answer is yes, I'm successful, because success is defined by me. Otherwise, you browbeat yourself. If you can't find one thing positive, and everything that you're doing is negative, you're gonna stop wanting to do it. And my example is in 1992, my second Olympic Games, when I came back, I had already won the 100 meters, and I was running the 100-meter hurdles. And I was running so fast because I have just set a personal best and 100 didn't have time to work with that newfound speed. And I was so close to the hurdles, every hurdle I was it just seemed like it was inevitable that I was going to fall. And I got to the last hurdle. And that hurdle jumped up and hit me. I didn't hit the hurdle. It got me. But I ended up falling over the hurdle and placing sliding through the finish line and placing I think, fourth or fifth. And people have asked me since then, how did you feel? I said I've never cried. They're like, you didn't cry? Oh, my gosh, I was so heartbroken for you. And I say thank you, but I didn't cry. And I'll tell you why. Because on that day, I did my best when I came back and I looked at myself in the mirror and I said, did I do everything that I could do? The answer was yes. I flip, crawled, and clawed my way to the finish line. Now next time, I would like it to be on my feet, but I still did everything that I could do. So mentally, you've got to find something positive out of everything that you've done. So that becomes your motivation to keep going.

Adam: I love it. I think that's great advice. And that brings me back to a quote from another Bruin from John Wooden.

Gail: And you're going with this. I know who John Wooden is. Yes.

Adam: What was John wooden's definition of success?

Gail: Oh, goodness, we had quotes around Polly Pavilion and stuff like that, and we were quoted but we were also taught to find your own. You don't follow in somebody else's footsteps, you make footsteps of your own. Because if you're following somebody else, and you don't do it as they did it, you're not going to be satisfied. But if I make my own, Bruins, we follow our own path. Because if everybody's following their own path, it's all gonna lead to success.

Adam: Chart your own course. Yes, at the same time, learn from others, just like listeners are learning from you, will learn from the masters, learn from those who have made it to the top. John Wooden has a great quote, “Success is peace of mind, which is a direct result of self-satisfaction in knowing you did your best to become the best you're capable of becoming”. So what does that mean? That means that it's all about doing your best. Yeah, do your best. Tony Horton says, do your best and forget the rest. If you know that you put your best foot forward if you gave 110%. If you did everything that you possibly could. If you left it all out on the field. That's all you can ask for, that success. 

Adam: So much of your journey has been and marked by these significant obstacles hurdles, literally and figuratively. Two major health conditions, one diagnosed Graves, one undiagnosed TDW. What advice do you have for listeners on how to overcome the obstacles that they face in their lives and in their careers?

Gail:  Like you said, figuratively, yes, hurdles, I've had many hurdles that I had to overcome. And I look at them as challenges. Be your own advocate, you know, your body. And if something doesn't feel right, do not accept other people telling you that there's nothing wrong or you're making this up in your head, because that mentally will bring you down. And you'll be in that box where you feel like people are sitting on top of the box and not letting you out. There are two things you can do when you're faced with a challenge. And we're all faced with challenges at a certain point in our life, you can either conquer them or be conquered. I choose to conquer. What does that mean? I'm gonna get over, under around, I've got to go through. I've got to go through this. I've got to get to the other side. It's like when I used to run, and people are like, oh, how fast are you? I'd say, let's go outside. And they're like, why are we going outside? I'm like because we're gonna look up in the sky. And there's no ceiling. What does that mean? That means there's no limit to my capabilities on the track. There's no limit to my capabilities off the track. There's no limit to my capabilities and anything that I set my mind to do. I won't be denied, I won't be deterred.

Adam: I love it. And it starts with knowing yourself, no one knows you better than you. And recognizing that whatever obstacles are in front of you are obstacles that you could overcome.

Gail: I don't feel like I was given anything. That was too hard. Now, it was hard. The journey is still hard. My health, that's your life. And that's hard. But I'm worth fighting for. And so I'm going to keep fighting. And then I turn around as a relay member. The world is worth fighting for. Those who have Graves disease are worth me fighting for you. To let you know, stand up. Don't let somebody beat you down where you feel like, is it worth it anymore? Yes, it's worth it. Had I known all that I know now, at the first sign of what's going on, I would have gone and gotten my diagnosis for Graves disease. And then knowing what I know, now, if I have Graves disease, right away, I would have gone to see a neuro-ophthalmologist or ocular plastic surgeon and said, hey, let's figure this out sooner than later. Because I gotta get my life back on track. I got to catch up to the old Gail. I hid myself because I didn't have answers. And I got tired of having to answer people. And I didn't have the answers for them. Because I was told that there was nothing wrong. So I stopped going out of my house. I know how that feels to be in that dark place. And I don't want anyone else to ever have to feel that way.

Adam: For someone who is in that dark place, how do you get out of it?

Gail: It's got a hold on. My example is a box. And when you open the box, you try to close it back, but it never closes back quite as tight. There's always a little bit of space, I don't care how many people help you and you've got to put tape over it. And so if you feel like you're inside that box, and people have closed it up because you had to open it up to put you in it and they closed it up. They can't close it all the way. There's always that little bit of like, hold on to that, like, keep looking at that light and verse through. Eventually, you will burst or you keep believing that there is something out there better than this. And I want it and I'm going to go and get it. And then when I go get it, I'm going to help somebody else because I know that this is a trickle of threats that somebody else is feeling like I am there's somebody else in a box somewhere. I gotta put on my super cape and go and save the day for somebody else too.

Adam: As an elite athlete who has been so focused on health, what advice do you have for anyone listening on how to attain top physical health, how to attain top mental health, how to live a healthy life?

Gail: Oh, age is a number. People are like you say that all the time. Like I believe age is just a number. I used to tell people I'm 19 and then I was like, okay, I'm having kids. I got okay, I'm forever 21. So I'm forever 21. Now I even have a store. I'm forever 21 and what does that mean? Like I said, mind over matter. If you don't mind, it doesn't matter. I just turned 56 years old, but you cannot tell me I just came from practice that I'll get out there and I run with kids. I'll go over hurdles, I'll do whatever at this age because that's keeping me young. I felt like I lost two and a half, almost three years. By the time I got back on the track, it was three years from my diagnosis with Graves disease. And then all these 30 years that I've been dealing with all of this is a lot of time to make up and I still got half my life to live. So mentally, where am I? I'm 21 years old. I'm living my best life. So every day that I wake up, I'm like, I love myself. It's about making positive affirmations to yourself to other people, and not being afraid to reach outside of yourself to help somebody else. I think that keeps me young. I think that keeps me with this positive mentality. I get rid of all the negativity. I think I have this like suit of armor that I wear. And negativity just bounces off. Not saying it's not gonna happen, but I don't deal with it. I don't deal with it. It's like, you know when you were young, and people like, oh, they called your name? No, they didn't. My name is Gail. And I didn't hear that. So I don't know who they're talking to. And I ignore it. I deal with positivity.

Adam: Yeah, I like it. Gail, something that we spoke a little bit about, really a signature of who you are uniqueness, embracing uniqueness, your nails?

Gail: Should I, kind of, look like talent is? 

Adam: Certainly different than any other Olympian I can think of. How did you get to a place where you were so comfortable embracing who you are? And how can anyone get to that place?

Gail: It goes back to you having to love yourself. I love the skin that I'm in. I even embrace the redness in my eyes. No, I don't have allergies. It's TED. It's not me. It's TED and I just embrace it with my nails. Everyone in my family usually has long hair, and long nails and one of the first signs of my Graves disease was that my nails started breaking and wouldn't grow. Now my nails don't break unless I do something crazy. And they wouldn't grow. And because it took two and a half, three years, for me to kind of get back on track. I started letting my nails grow for three years at a time. And the longer they grew the curvier they went, and the longer it took me to dry my nails with the nail polish, for me was a mental sign that I was okay. Because there was a point in my life when I didn't have that option. And so now it's just one of those things that I let them grow. And I used to work at like schools and the little kids were like, oh, I thought you were gonna paint your nails this color. So I always had nail polish in my bag, and I paint them this color and somebody say we'll change it this way. It's a mental thing for me that I'm okay. But I'm also when I was diagnosed with my thyroid eye disease, I cut my nails, and I let them grow back. When someone that I know or someone that's close to me, my brother passed away, I cut my nails, because it's a sign of starting over. And if you take care of something, it will grow. And they grow again. And so it's just it's a mental thing for me. I always tell people, it's a Gail thing. You don't have to understand it. I understand it. How did I become comfortable with that? Because I'm comfortable in my skin. I mean, I can't be you. I can't be you. My name is Gail. And that's all I know, how to be me. And what comes with that? If people ask me as you ask, I can explain. There's a story behind this. I used to bite my nails when I was little. So my father who was a minister decided he's like, okay, we'll have a contest. Because everything else he tried didn't work, hot sauce, all the little tricks. I was like, oh, that's pretty good. So nothing worked until he appealed to my competitive nature. And we had a contest. I'm like, there's no way I'm letting my dad beat me and growing his one finger. And once I decided to stop biting them, they just kept growing. So it became a part of me. And yeah, you'll get comments that people will say, oh, why are your nails like that? Or, I don't like that. But I'm not doing it for you. So when you ask how you become comfortable, you have to be comfortable with the decision that you make for yourself. In decisions that I make in my life, I stop, I take a pause, and I think about the consequences of my actions before I act. And if we would do that more so than less. Half the things we think about doing we probably wouldn't do. My nails aren't hurting anybody. I still type, I crochet, and I do all kinds of stuff. So it's just a part of me. And it's a mental thing to let me know that, Gail, you've caught back up to the old girl because you had nails before. You're gonna be okay.

Adam: Yeah, yeah. Hey, Gail, something that you brought up earlier, you are a byproduct of great coaching. We spoke about how no one gets there alone. You've had great coaches in the course of your career. You now are paying it forward by coaching others. What makes a great coach and what makes a great leader?

Gail: Oh, that's a good question. I don't know if I'm a great coach. I mean, I think the kids that I coach, respect me because I respect them. I listened to them, they listened to me. You know like I said, I just want you to be the best you that you can be. And my goal as a coach is to help you accomplish those goals that we've written down. And we're going to do it together. We're going to work together. I think, for me, coming from a great coach, everybody's not coachable, either. Everybody can't be a coach, and everybody can't be coached. But what works is that communication. And I always tell athletes, to be a sponge, take all the knowledge, and then when you wring it out, you will decipher if it's positive or negative for you, but be willing to listen, to try something new. Even though it didn't, you know, I'm like, I'm not comfortable with that. Okay, well, you know, this Jack, and Phil, I probably would have bought you a pillow out here if I wanted you to really be comfortable. Maybe if you're not comfortable, you'll get off the blocks, you know. So it's a matter of being willing to try different things, being willing to look, listen and learn. And so when people have information, let them decipher it for you. If it doesn't work, at the end of every year, I sit down and we say, okay, let's decompose. Let's see, did this work? What worked? Okay, let's keep that with that. I don't think that works. So, let's take that out. Or let's try something new. But we're willing to try willing to keep evolving and being better, just like chronic condition changes. So it changes with my Graves disease. It's progressive, so it has ebb and flow. So I've got to be willing to be, as it begins with me, and it's the same thing in life, you've got to do that. And come out on the positive side.

Adam: Be a sponge, be willing to listen, and be willing to try new things. Get out of your comfort zone. I love your emphasis on adaptability, diseases change, and people change. We're constantly changing. And in order to keep up with the change, you need to be adaptable. The only certainty is uncertainty. And leaders who are comfortable with change, are the ones who are most capable to succeed regardless of what's coming.

Gail: And leaders make changes to them. Absolutely make a change. And where does that come from? Leaders become leaders based on everything stemming from something else, from your childhood, or something that you went through. So you look at me, why do I help others because I was held? Why do I want to go outside of myself to make a change? And that change is making people aware of what's out there aware of the facts, aware of the statistics inhale, why? Because it took me 30 years to get there. So the change that I want, is to even the playing fields so that you can get the diagnosis that you need, that you can be under the proper care of a Graves disease doctor, your endocrinologist, or your regular practitioner, and then be under if TED decides to come and take up residence with you, then you're also under the care of a neuro-ophthalmologist or ocular plastic surgeon, you have that team, build that team around that positive team. So the puzzle that you're all putting together, nobody's holding one piece. And when you get to the end, it's like this is not a complete picture because somebody has a piece. No, everybody's playing their part. And now this puzzle is complete it doesn't mean that you won't have Graves disease or you won't have an illness. I have everything that I have, but it makes me me. And I'm complete because I know where to go to help this situation. And so my team is working with what we have, and we're making it better for me. And then I'm, as you say, paying it forward, making it better for others.

Adam: Embrace change and be the change. Anyone listening to this conversation knows, John Wooden's definition of success, knows your definition of success, knows Tony Horton's definition of success. What can anyone listening do to become more successful, personally and professionally?

Gail: Stick to it, have a goal, and set the goal. Stick to it. Success is truly defined by the individual. It's when you try to be placed in a box or allow yourself to be placed in a box to say that this is what success looks like. No, success means that you have to give it your all no matter what you're doing. They say you can't give more than 100%. So I say give it a little off and evaluate yourself at the end. And be honest with yourself. Did I do everything that I could? Could I do more success? This is defined by you. If you want to be successful, be willing to work, be willing to hurt, be willing to get up earlier, and go to bed later. Be willing to do everything that you can do at all times to accomplish the goals that you have. And if you fall short, you know, you're trying to stay on this yellow brick road, but maybe the yellow brick road is not for you. Get on that red road, get on that brown road, flexibility. It's not just how far you can stretch in athletics. It's how far you are willing to stretch and be flexible, to learn new things, to adapt and adapt to new things, to stretch out your hand to help somebody else and bring them with you. That's what success is. It's not just one-dimensional. It's the whole picture.

Adam: Gail, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Gail: No, thank you for having me. Thank you for helping me get the word out. As I said, you are a part of my relay now, Adam. So you got to be able to spread the word to say okay, weight loss, hair loss symptoms, you know what? I need you to go to focus on tt.com. And there's a wealth of information. And if it doesn't help you, it's going to help somebody else

Adam:  You said that. You can't be me. I can't be you. If you were me, you wouldn't have three Olympic gold medals, you would be really fast junior high school track runner, but at that point, your track stardom would have ended.

Gail: No, no, no. You are a gold medalist in what you do. You are a champion for what you do. You help get the word out. You help people just with your cast that you have now that we're talking about. People are learning stuff, you're helping people all over the world. So for that, you are a gold medalist and keep doing what you do.

Adam: Thank you, Gail. I appreciate it. Thanks again. 

Gail: Thank you.


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally-recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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