I recently interviewed Gary Hall on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is a five-time Olympic gold medalist with 10 Olympic medals in total. One of the greatest swimmers of all time, Gary Hall Jr., won gold medals in three different Olympic Games. Gary, thank you for joining us.

Gary: Yeah, thanks so much for having me on.

Adam: Gary, you grew up in Phoenix in a family filled with great swimmers. Your dad Gary Hall Senior also swam in three Olympic Games and won medals in each. Your mom's dad was an NCAA champion, swimmer, and her brother was an Olympic swimmer. But you were far from a swimming prodigy growing up and you actually avoided competitive swimming for most of your childhood. Could you take listeners back to your early days? What were the key experiences and lessons that shaped the trajectory of your success?

Gary: It's not so much that I was avoiding swimming, I was busy doing other things. And I had naturally more interest in skateboarding than I did in joining a swim team where you had to get up and jump in a swimming pool at 5:30 am. But then when I did come around and join the swim team, I noticed immediately that there were expectations from others. Those expectations weren’t coming from my parents or my family but from other coaches or other swimmers out there. This oh, your dad was a great swimmer, you're going to be a great swimmer. And treated me a little bit differently because of that, perhaps. And so 13 is when I really threw my hat in the ring, and started committing myself in a major way to the sport. And I love swimming before that. But it was all recreational. And Phoenix you mentioned, it gets so hot in the summertime that the swimming pool was just a natural place for us to play. And so yeah, those were backyard water slides and horsing around and doing cannonballs off the roof. So a lot of like, I always loved being in the water, being around the water. And then I was really fortunate to because in Phoenix, we also would visit frequently, both California and Miami. That's really where I fell in love with the ocean, which brought on a much deeper love for all things aquatic.

Adam: Once you started swimming competitively, you mentioned the expectations that came with it that came with your last name, that came with your bloodline, that came with having a dad who was this great Olympian, grandfather, and uncle. How did you manage those expectations? And what advice do you have for listeners on how to manage the pressure and expectations that they face in their lives in their careers?

Gary: You have to know why you're doing something in order to do it well. And so if you can't answer that question: what do I love about this? And it's not that you have to love every moment of this journey. But if you can identify what you're getting out of something, what's to fill it and not like a monitor, I get something like that. But how you're being challenged, how you're developing as you're growing, how you're advancing through this thing called life. These are really the milestones that need to be in place. And so it begins with one knowing where the finish line is, you'll never get there unless you know where you're going. And so knowing ultimately what you want is the most important thing and why you're doing it. These are two simple questions that aren't so simple to answer sometimes.

Adam: But that's great advice. Know where the finish line is. Set goals, set clear, actionable goals, no matter what you're doing in life.

Gary: Absolutely. Get to work, because it does take a lot of hard work to get there.

Adam: What were some of the challenges that you faced along the way as you're going from this 13 year old Gary Hall Jr., discovering competitive swimming, going from a hobby to becoming an Olympic gold medalist a five time Olympic gold medalist? How did you get there? What were the steps that you took?

Gary: Small steps, it's small steps that take us to great places. And I didn't get to the top of the Olympic podium, one lap at a time. I got there one stroke at a time. And so it was just perseverance and really sticking with this dream, this goal through thick and thin. And there's plenty of thick and thin aisles and tribulations along every path. And so somebody said, a champion isn't determined by their victories, it's how to deal with adversity, we're all gonna get knocked down. Rather than get punched in the gut, at some point, life throws a jab here, there. And it's how we respond to that. It makes us good at what we do. And so that was, yeah, there were a lot of setbacks along the way. And a big one for me, was a diagnosis of type one diabetes. So that happened later in my swimming career, I was 24 years old when that happened. But if it hadn't been, what I had learned from swimming, how to set goals and go after it, and just be vigilant, always on top of it. And thinking about it. This, in some ways, prepared me to manage this disease in a way that had never been done before. I didn't have any family history of type one diabetes, I didn't know what it was, I didn't know what the difference between type one diabetes and type two diabetes was. That was one of those punch-in the-gut moments, before and after moments, where there was life before I had diabetes. And then there was life after I had diabetes. And ultimately, everything that I had learned from sport and the sport of swimming, in particular, helped prepare me. And you hear that sometimes when I was a kid, there were Olympians that would come in and speak to the team and, and they talk about hard work and perseverance and goal attainment and all these things that swimming is teaching you. And I remember being a young teenager, kind of rolling my eyes a little bit like it was a little bit too rah-rah speech. So I didn't realize it along the way that I was seeing these characteristics as character building type of qualities, through my commitment to the sport that would serve me outside of us winning.

Adam: I love that. It's so important to learn from others, it's so important to absorb the advice that you receive from those who have been there from those that have done it. But sometimes the best source of education is doing it yourself, going on that journey, going on that ride, and learning by doing.

Gary: Yeah, nobody can get you out of bed in the morning and put one foot in front of the other, that's up to you. So you can have the best coach, but unless you're willing to kind of take that ownership. And like I said, just putting one step in front of the other.

Adam: Motivation, essential to everything we do in life, but especially critical to what you did over the course of your career. You can't win an Olympic medal, let alone an Olympic gold medal, let alone five Olympic gold medals, without being able to motivate yourself day in and day out. How did you motivate yourself on the days that you didn't feel motivated? And what are your best tips on the topic of motivation?

Gary: Well, to stay motivated, because we all have these days where we don't feel like it, that it just seems overwhelming to pursue, life itself can be overwhelming. And so know why you're doing it. That's what I was talking about earlier that helps to know what you love about what you're doing and why you're doing it. These are the critical questions that you have to have an answer for to get you through those less than motivational days. I've never been comfortable saying I'm the best in the world when I was this. But even as the fastest swimmer in the world, just saying I'm the fastest swimmer in the world is extremely difficult for me to do. And I come from a modest upbringing, where I had a family that would keep me in line. Ego was squashed a long time ago. And to think that we can make a difference in the world seems grandiose, and just seems like an impossible task. And it isn't. It's easier than you think. And it doesn't take winning a gold medal at the Olympics to do that. I found out through a diabetes diagnosis. And being able to after that diagnosis and be told by two doctors that it was the end of my swimming career that it was impossible to compete at that level, I was able to get back in the water and achieve that and found in that process that the more rewarding experience out of that was making a diabetes diagnosis a little less scary for some kid and their family. That it was more rewarding than the golden metal than a fast swimming time. And so sometimes, if you asked me, as I set out on this path to become a fast swimmer, I could have never anticipated that I would have made a diagnosis less scary for some kid somewhere down the road, right? And so it's by chasing down and grabbing hold of our own potential as a human being, that making good decisions and working hard, working hard and working hard over and over and over again, never giving up, that you will inspire other people along the way. That you don't have to be in front of the cameras to do that. When I was diagnosed, I was scared. This was a really scary proposition. The complications of this disease are very real and life-threatening. It kills so many people each year, and so staring down that barrel. And it's just overwhelming to think how I can manage this. I'm gonna get back to the Olympics and do that. But with diabetes management, the same as my swimming, it was just one small step at a time, just checking in on blood sugar, not giving up on it, remembering to do the right things, make better food choices, start taking care of my body at a cellular level. And just being mindful of health, health consciousness, this was a critical piece to get me where I needed to go.

Adam: I want to talk a little bit more about that moment in time, to give listeners a little bit more context. 1996 you're 21, you're competing in your first Olympics, you made a huge splash, literally and metaphorically, winning two gold medals and two silver medals in Atlanta, you're on top of the world. And you're getting ready for the 2000 Olympics. And that's when you're told by doctors at age 24 that your swimming career is over. Your Olympic career is over. This is it, you're done. You have type one diabetes, which as you said you didn't know what type one diabetes even was. And that's it. Understandably, this was not good news for you. This wouldn't be good news for anyone, but particularly for what you do professionally, this was it. Can you describe exactly how you were able to make it through that dark period? You shared some great tips, you shared some great advice. But I want to know if you could bring listeners back to that moment, which was as tough a moment as one could have professionally and personally. You're suicidal, this was dark. How did you go from that to bouncing back? And not only resuming your Olympic career but resuming your Olympic career at the same level as before going on and winning more and more Olympic gold medals, competing in that next Olympic Games, competing in the following Olympic Games, and winning gold medals in each of them.

Gary: So how was that done? I think that you have to risk failure. I think the biggest key is that you have to put yourself out there and try it. I didn't go to medical school. I'm not in a position to argue with a doctor that's telling me it's impossible to compete at the Olympic Games with type one diabetes. I didn't know that I couldn't point to somebody else who had done it before to say yes, it can be done. And so it was with great uncertainty that I began or resumed this path. And it really was a new path, a lot of the training and everything that I had done, the way that I was examining nutrition and what I was putting into my body and how important that is. All of this changed dramatically after that diagnosis. And so there was a trial and error process with a lot of errors and so you can't be afraid to make mistakes. You can't be afraid to fail. In this learning process this evolution But our existence here on planet Earth. So that's the biggest message that I like to convey through assisting others and encouraging others to, to chase down their dreams, and go into one, care to try.  Work hard, but don't be afraid to fail through any of that process.

Adam: Which is a universally applicable lesson. No matter what you're doing in your life, no matter what you're doing in your career, if you're too afraid to fail, you're really too afraid to try and you're never going to be able to accomplish anything of significance. Whether that's in the swimming pool, in the game of life, in any game, in anything. Gary, you've had a number of great mentors who have helped you along the way starting with your dad, Gary Hall Senior. What are your best tips for listeners on the topic of mentorship? How can anyone find a great mentor, be a great mentor, optimize a mentor-mentee relationship?

Gary: It begins with the mindset. And I think that we all come across candidates that can serve as a mentor for us. But it's not really until we kind of flip that around and consider how I can mentor someone. We really start to examine what are the qualities that it takes to be a mentor and I think that through that process of looking at how you can serve others, that you gain a lot of self-awareness through that process, that questioning process. That's my advice. My father was a great swimmer. And he is qualified to have taught me how to do a better start, a better flip turn or backstroke catch or something like that. But he never did. He gave me one bit of advice in my swimming career. And it was the same advice before when he didn't swim, when I was just starting out before the Olympic Games. And he'd always say have fun. And what I've translated that to means is, be present. Enjoy the experience. Even though it's terrifying. Even though it's so much pressure. I can't possibly tell you what that is, even though you feel like you're going to throw up from the nerves. It's not exclusive, you can still have fun, and be present and enjoy that as part of the process. We talked about identifying things that you love. And for me in swimming, it was the race, I just loved getting up on the blocks and racing. And that was just so much fun. It's the same thing that I do. And when I was in my backyard, jelly bean-shaped swimming pools with friends in the summer, and Phoenix is a recent from here to there and trash talk and the bravado and all that stuff. It was all part of it. And it was a lot of fun. I just kind of took that to levels that I would have never imagined possible at the Olympic Games and had a lot of fun with it. But I loved that rush, the adrenaline of the stress. It was part of it, definitely. But putting it all on the line, risking it all. That was a lot of fun for me. And so that was the motivating thing. That's why I knew I could get up at five o'clock in the morning, go jump in a freezing cold swimming pool. It was worth it.

Adam: I love that. I did an interview with a Grammy Award-winning musician. And I asked him, “How do you perform under pressure? What are your best tips?” And this is a guy who has been for years performing in sold-out crowds in the biggest venues all across America. And his advice, his best lesson learned was two words: have fun. And it was when he was able to learn that the people who are there to watch him perform are there for one reason and one reason only. And that's to have fun. So he should be there for that same reason. And that's to have fun and enjoy it. And once you're able to adopt that mindset, it's a game changer. Along those lines, how can anyone develop a winning mindset?

Gary: Well, you become your thoughts, the thoughts direct you in life. And so if you have a circling negative thought that consumes you, you're handicapping yourself by its advantages and disadvantages. And that is something that only you can change, it takes a lot of hard work, we're all susceptible, or prone to fall into negative thinking patterns. And so being able to recognize it, when it does happen, and dismiss it and say, I know you're there, but silver linings. And I feel like I've always been able to keep a very positive attitude, to some degree. I'll complain a little bit along the way, grumble grumble, that type of stuff, but to not be consumed by negative thinking, and then ultimately, take care of your body. Your mind is part of your body, right? And so are you getting enough sleep? Are you eating right? Are you taking supplements that can help achieve your potential ultimately? And so there's things that we can do, we can make better food choices and go with a salad every once in a while, instead of a double cheeseburger, or a salad with the double cheeseburger instead of the fries, not giving up that double cheeseburger just yet in life. But to offset choices like a double cheeseburger every once in a while or you know, something else. I also feel like I need to take steps. And especially now as I'm getting older, to offset that aging process, and really kind of address my health, my mind, and my body, you know, at a cellular level. And so I've learned about mitochondrial health. And that's one thing, we talked about silver linings, this falls perfectly into what I was talking about before out of a diabetes diagnosis, it seemed the end of the world was diagnosed, but it set me on a path to really start to examine health and wellness. And so as a drug-tested athlete competing internationally, I had to really pay attention to the things that I was eating and the supplements that I was taking. And we were early in our nutritional supplements, because we were competing against people that we know were cheating, that have since been caught. And that's not a debate, there's doping in sport. And so to compete against these people, right, as a top-level competitive athlete, we're taking a really close look at what we're putting into our body. Gosh, does if you take CO q 10. An antioxidant. And you hear about how good antioxidants are and these other supplements and omega threes. And so we kind of had to go through this learning process, the heart health, human performance. And so it led me to a kind of very interesting path, a very informative path where I learned a lot about not just my own body, but about stuff that I might have otherwise had snoozed through in high school or college. There's a couple of different things that I've come across in this journey of knowledge and self-empowerment. And one is in straight-up diabetes management, the continuous glucose monitoring devices, the most impressive breakthrough in diabetes management, because it gives us a response to see what our insulin levels and blood sugar levels are doing when we're eating the different types of food, that we're eating the different effects that it has on our endocrine system, and stuff like that. This is just like pulling the curtain back on how important food consumption, how we're fueling ourselves truly is. And then the other path that I mentioned was in the nutritional supplement world. And that was I mentioned early on in my competing days that I was taking cookie 10, an antioxidant. It's been around for a long time. And that ultimately brought me to a New Zealand-based company might have which is addressing cellular health, mitochondria stuff. It's all too complicated for an average athlete like myself to really get into the details of how it works. But it basically just helps me feel better and gives me an energy that I can use to go out and tackle anything that life throws at me. And with two kids now 14 and 16 and filled with busy fun summer schedules. That's quite a lot of activity.

Adam: Going back to before you had two kids, you developed a reputation as one of the most colorful personalities in the world of swimming, being unafraid to be yourself, unafraid to demonstrate your ISA and TriCities on the world stage. And this was during a time when it wasn't in vogue for athletes, and particularly not for Olympic swimmers to publicly display their personalities. Your kids might not remember that era. But back then, athletes were not encouraged to show who they were. But you did. How did you develop the comfort in your own skin to confidently be yourself, regardless of where you were? And how can anyone develop the confidence to comfortably be their true self?

Gary: I think the short answer to that question is you have to be able to dismiss what others think. And that's hard to do. That's really, especially now in the world of social media and how we're judged and valued on like numbers. That's difficult for a kid today to understand, for most people to understand, you have to be true to yourself. And so I applaud anybody that is able to take steps to identify who it is they are, that process and then looking inward, and just being themselves. And that is, to me, the definition of cool is not regarding what others think, just being true to who you are. And I feel like I was encouraged as a kid, because I was always that oh, Gary’s a little different, he was a bit of a different drum or something like I always was as far back as I can remember the comments that I dressed in bright colors. I literally like wasting this fraud on the color spectrum of my wardrobe. And so I didn't think anything because I had this accepting and supportive family around me that accepted these eccentricities that I got to a stage all of a sudden, and people were making comments, and I never really questioned the stuff before. And I didn't think that was strange. Anything that I was doing. I was just being true to who I was. And I got a lot of criticism for it. And so that was a difficult process. There's a dark side of fame. Definitely. And so you're scrutinized for little things that shouldn't be questioned. Your wardrobe choices receive a lot of criticism through the years, I never liked that very much. I never really liked the spotlight. I'm not doing these things for attention. Anybody who knows me will tell you, though, that I'm a relatively shy person. So it's not like I'm seeking out attention when I do these things. It's just, I prefer that brightly colored option over the brown one or the dark green. Just be true to yourself, that's ultimately what I'm saying.

Adam: I love it. What can anyone do to become a better leader?

Gary: Care? That's a one-word answer, care. Just simply by caring, you're going to be a better person and be a better partner. Better father, husband, everything changed the world. Okay, slow, slow process, but that's where it starts.

Adam: What can anyone listening to this conversation do to become more successful personally and professionally? 

Gary: I can't overemphasize how important the work hard part is. Anything worth doing requires a lot of hard work. So know that that's, it's out there. But I said it earlier in the podcast, doesn't do any good. Just start running as fast as you can, and not know where the finish line is. So you got to know where you're going. And then just work really, really hard at it. Sooner or later, you're going to get there and count on a few setbacks and hardships along the way. So an easy, not as rewarding experience, may not be worth doing.

Adam: Gary, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Gary: Thanks so much for having me on. Yes, it’s been a pleasure.

Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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