Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Ja Rule

I recently interviewed Ja Rule on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: My guest today is one of the most successful rappers of all time. Ja Rule has released platinum records, numerous songs that have cracked the top 20, and one that made it to number one. Ja, thank you for joining us.

Ja: Thank you, man. I got more than number one man. Don't shortchange me.

Adam: How many number ones do you have?

Ja: Honestly, I think about three or four. 

Adam: Yeah, I need to fire my research person. My research person is me.

Ja: Yeah, no, no, let them know, get me right, get me right.

Adam: Hey, my bad, Ja.

Ja: Those are hit records. Number ones. They're not easy to put up.

Adam: Well, we're gonna talk about how you were able to get to number one. But before we do, I want to know if you can take listeners back to your early days you grew up in Hollis Queens, not too far from where my dad grew up. He grew up in Middle Village.

Ja: Wow. Queens, Queens.

Adam: You know it. You faced a number of pretty significant challenges early on. Your dad left when you were a little kid, your mom spent most of her time working to try to make ends meet. You were largely raised by your grandparents.

Ja: Yeah, well, a number of years. Yeah.

Adam: What experiences and lessons were most instrumental to shaping your worldview and ultimately shaping the trajectory of your success?

Ja: Well, you know, it's so crazy because in the Black community, a lot of kids come from one-parent homes, that's not out of the norm. A lot of kids are raised by grandparents. That's not out of the norm. Because the parents are usually not in the right financial space. Sometimes not in the right mental space to handle the child. So those things are fairly normal in the Black community. Which is sad, but it's true. So my upbringing, when I look at it, but humble beginnings the way I came up, I hate to say it, but it's normal. When White people look at the way Black people come up, it's not normal. They look at it like it's a shock. Like, how the fuck did you even make it with no real foundation, no real structure, no anything like that. It's very difficult, very tough. But that for us is a very normal upbringing. So, being raised by my grandparents when I was 12 was very normal to me. It didn't seem out of the ordinary. My mom left when I was five. Because my dad was he was very abusive and on drugs. And my dad was really dark very fast. As I got to know my dad in my later years of life, I learned a lot about him, because he started to teach me about how he was brought up as a child. And I learned a lot about my grandfather, his father, and some of the shortcomings that he had. And this is why my father was the way he was. And so those things, you start to understand that you become a grown man and have chosen yourself, you can kind of understand a little bit. But then when I told my dad because I never understood how he could abandon me that part of it, I'd never understood because I can never do that to my kids. Even if I didn't work out or whatever the case may have been. I was still always there for my children. Those things are very difficult for me to still understand. But I do get it. I get the difficulties of being a parent as being a father of three. It's not an easy job, and there's no manual to it. So my upbringing to me, in a nutshell, just to answer your question, was pretty much normal. To me, it didn't seem out of the ordinary until I got older and realize what a normal upbringing looks like.

Adam: Are there any experiences growing up that you look back on and say these moments really changed the way that I ultimately live my life, ultimately change the trajectory of my journey, and helped me become who I am today?

Ja: Yeah, my grandpa, my family, they were Jehovah's Witnesses. And it's crazy because the religion is very strict. People even call it, they go as far as to say, as a cult, but it's a very, very strict religion. But my grandfather was a very militant man. And my grandmother was a very easygoing woman and very nurturing. And so those two very different personalities rubbed off on me in very different ways. My grandfather, I learned early from him what it looked like to be a provider and to be a good father figure. Because he was that, he was very much that, but he was very much also the disciplinarian. He knew how to whoop some ass if things got out of line. And I ended up getting very much out of line from a day's work, and he was getting that as well. So I learned early on what it looked like to be a man in the household, which was great for me, because I felt like those things I carried over into my family, not as we've been putting, I was very young, I probably should have worked a little more as but those things I think, also made me who I was. Seeing how much of just how hard he was on us. I didn't want to be like that with my kids. Seeing my father abandoned me, I didn't want to be that way with my child, I can never be that for my kids. So uncertain things. I learned what not to be from these situations, as much as I've learned how to be, I guess. And those things stick out for me in life. And throughout my adulthood those subconscious things you learned from my parents, and from my grandparents or whoever was my guardians, all that kind of stick with you throughout your years that you didn't realize, you were actually picking up these traits. I picked up a lot of things from my grandfather that weren't good. I tried to take a lot of the good out of what I had going on growing up and leave the bad parts behind. So I guess that's the beauty of the struggle that I went through, I got a chance to know that I don't want to be like this. And made about being more towards the dad that I was, that I am.

Adam: Ja, you shared a lot of really interesting points and touched on a lot of really interesting themes. One of which is the importance of learning from those around you. We have people in our lives who serve as role models, oftentimes, who provide us with behavior that we want to model ourselves after. And we look at them and we say, I want to be just like that person in this way. But on the flip side, we have people in our lives, who we look at and say, I don't want to be like that person. And we see leaders who we say, this is a great leader, I want to lead like this person, what are they doing effectively? How can I copy them? How can I learn from them? And then we see bad leaders and we say, I can learn just as much from a bad leader, by understanding what I don't want to do and how I don't want to lead.

Ja: That's what I mean with the religion, part of the religion is they teach you how to become a speaker. So at very young ages, they put the kids up on stages in front of the congregation to speak. And so I was speaking in front of the congregation of crowds of people, probably a couple of 100 people at the age of like 10 years old. I attribute that to my being able to get on the stage in front of 1000s of people and have no fear at all, it just feels natural for to me speak in front of people. I attribute that to the time that I spent in the Kingdom Hall and with my grandparents and learning some of those things. I definitely feel like that got me ready for being a celebrity.

Adam: What role did mentorship play in your success? Were there mentors within the industry, outside of the industry, who you look back on and say, this person or these people were instrumental in shaping my success? And more broadly, what tips do you have for listeners on the topic of mentorship?

Ja: Mentorship is very important. I still have people that I look to as mentors to this day. But early on, I came from the best school possible. I was at Def Jam recording artists, there was no other institution better than Def Jam to learn from. It was the holy grail of rap labels. So Leo Cohen and Russell Simmons and Irv and Diddy and Jay and Dame Dash. I got to be around all of these people in close proximity and learn a lot from these people just being a fly on the wall. That was important to me. I'm very much a sponge. I like to get in spaces and just people-watch and learn and study people's mannerisms and how they carry themselves and that's very important to me because I feel in life, there's a time and place for everything. But I also feel like people should be comfortable in their own skin to walk in rooms like themselves. So that's a very difficult line to walk. If you're not a celebrity, it helps when you're a celebrity to be able to walk in the room as yourself. And also know that there's a time and a place where everything you know how to carry yourself, becomes a very easy line to walk, but it's important to your livelihood, see the structure of your company and the building of your brand and who you are as a person and character, all of that stuff is very important. So I would have to say, when you have great mentorship, those things fall in line.

Adam: And it really speaks to another important point which is getting to a place where you can develop comfort in your own skin to be yourself. Be comfortable in who you are before you can effectively lead others you need to be able to lead your own life. It ultimately starts with self-awareness.

Ja: Absolutely. I became a lot more self-aware when I went to prison. I think that's when I shed a lot of baggage that was Ja Rule and I started to become more Jeff Atkins. Even though these people are the same person. The prison Ja Rule, he gives up a different energy. People see Ja Rule when they look at Jeff Atkins, they see Ja Rule. When they talk to Ja Rule, they get to see Jeff Atkins, the same person, but they hold two very different personas in people's eyes. That's the difficult part about the entertainment business. People get misunderstood a lot. I think I'm very misunderstood, in a lot of ways, but that's fine. I like a little mystery, a little mystique.

Adam:  Well, Ja,  that's why you're here to try to become understood, to try to crack through the mystery. And to that end, I want to know if you could share with listeners, how did Jeff Atkins become Ja Rule? And more broadly, what advice do you have for listeners on how anyone can get to this journey of greatness? You obviously were able to create this great path for yourself. What can anyone else do?

Ja: I wouldn't advise anybody to take my path, my path was a dangerous path. Because it really wasn't a plan B, was plan A, and plan a one. There was no real plan B. I dropped out of school, in the 11th grade. And so I felt as though the only thing I had was this talent to take me to different heights that I wanted to achieve. And in life, you have choices. And the choices that I made early on in life would definitely affect the choices that I make now in life. Jeff Atkins is still paying for some of Ja Rule’s mistakes. And it's fine. Because Jeff Atkins is also still living off of single jobs, glory, and success that Ja has had. If I could tell anybody, I would say have choices, go to school, finish school, have an education,  have that to fall back on. Not to say don't chase your dreams. Because I believe that everybody should. I believe that that is the most important thing in life is to be happy. Part of being happy is having a job that you love. The thing that you get up and go do every day is something that you enjoy doing. Because if not, you're not truly going to be happy. I read this book, it is a really good book. It's called The Six Types of Working Genius which talks about being happy in the work that you do in life. And it's quite an interesting concept theory that they have on living your best life. And meaning fulfilling your dream, going after that dream job, doing that thing that you always wanted to do, because in life, what I've grown to know is that when it's all said and done, and you're taking that final bow, the things in life that you will regret will probably be the things that you never tried, or the things that you dreamed of doing that you never did, that you never tried to do. It's on fulfillment. And some of those things are career driven. I hear so many times people talk about the job that they have versus the job that they want. I'm very fortunate to have the job that I wanted. But at the end of the day, I will say this to people. It all becomes a job, at the end of the day, it all becomes a job. As much as I love my job, I love what I do as an entertainer, there are days when I feel like wow, I gotta get on the stage and I don't have to, but I love to do it. And so that's what gets me there, be tired. But there are days when you just don't feel like getting out of bed. You just don't feel like doing it. And whatever job you have, it will feel like a job. But that's why they say love what you do.

Adam: Ja, my favorite writer of all time, David Halberstam used to always bring up a quote that he got from Dr. J. And it's my favorite quote, “Being a professional is doing what you love to do on the days you don't feel like doing it”.

Ja: I love that. Yeah. Yep. And that's being professional. And that's real. That quote reminds me of what I used to always tell people, and artists about getting into the music business. I used to always say, yeah, it was the thing that I love to do because I did it when I felt like doing it. I used to write rhymes when I feel like it. I get up, I write rhymes. Well, when you signed a deal with Def Jam, now you want to clock. I need a new album by next quarter. Do I need a new album? Do you understand? So now it's not when you feel like doing it. It's my fucking getting up and doing it anyway. So yeah, I love to do it. But it puts a timestamp on when it has to get done, which makes you professional, makes it a profession. And you're absolutely right.

Adam: Can you describe your creative process and how anyone can unlock their creativity?

Ja: I happen to believe that everybody is creative and has that creative gene within them. It's just unlocking it. What is it? What is that thing? For a long time, I thought it was music for me. I've grown to realize that my God-given gift is being creative, whether it's music, fashion, tech, or whatever, it doesn't matter. My mind and what things that I like to create, that is my gift. And so music is just one of those things that I tapped into. And now I'm tapping into a lot of creative sources that I am getting the same fulfillment that I got when I started doing music. So that lets me know that I'm definitely right about being creative first. And everything else comes in, it falls into line after that.

Adam: When you want to get to a place where you're at your most creative, whether it's creating a new song, trying to come up with an idea for a new business venture, or anything else creative, what do you do? What are specific things that you do to get yourself in that place?

Ja: I have what I call the think tank. I get into the think tank just about every day. It's my jacuzzi bath. So I work out, and I have a very strict regimen on how I do things. That's another thing I learned I used to be a very unpredictable person, to be unpredictable, thus gaining the advantage type of thought process. But when I went to prison, I became very much more of a routine person. Because I had to be there you know, everything was going on a routine and so but what I learned is when you have a routine, it becomes second nature and becomes just part of your life, just part of what you do. And working out became part of my routine. And I'm very happy about that. Because one, it keeps me looking young and fresh and great, which I appreciate. But it also has a certain discipline to it. It allows me to know that I can do anything if I put my mind to it. And that's not just a saying that's like a real thing for me. Because I've done it time and time again, not just with music and not just with my physical appearance and not how I attack the gym. But that discipline translates into different aspects of my life, whether it be business or whatever. So that's important to me to have certain discipline, and it comes from that process.

Adam: We've alluded to some of your entrepreneurial ventures. You have a couple of new businesses that you're working on, a whiskey brand, a wine brand, what are the best lessons that you've learned from your experience as an entrepreneur?

Ja: It's a rollercoaster. Investment is very funny because everything is not a home run. But with investment people want it to be. I'm investing my hard-earned money into something, it must work, right? No, it is not the way it always goes. That was the first lesson you learned and investment is, it's kind of like throwing darts, you throw 20 darts, and you hope you hit the bullseye. Not aimlessly, you're trying to go with businesses and teams and things that you think will be successful. But you never know, nothing is guaranteed. And so there's been a lot of fun with investment, trying to be the next great startup and seeing if you have the ability to pick the thing that was going to be the next thing that people are gonna love. I think I have a knack for that because I was able to do it with music. I was able to say, hey, I think people are gonna love this new sound, you're gonna love this new thing. And, again, a lot of people, even my label, not believing that it could be the new sound that did a new thing. It 100% was. And so the same thing, when you start an investment or you're starting a new company, you're hoping you have your eye and your fingers on the pulse of something that people are not quite abreast of maybe not even ready for. But that's the risk you take of being early or being or early investor or angel investor on a startup, those are the chances you take. So I've taken those risks and taken those chances. And I've had some success, and I've had some failure. But the thing is, when your’re Ja Rule, your failures get magnified. Your successes get minimized, but the failures get magnified. And so you just got to be very careful about what you pick and what you deal with. And it's not as easy as people think,”, that's what I'm saying.

Adam: I want to ask you about one of those failures. It's a very high-profile failure.

Ja: Oh, no, don't.

Adam: I just want to know if you could share, given the time you've had to reflect upon the lessons learned from that experience. What you've taken away, what have you learned?

Ja: I'm very guarded in the businesses that I get involved with. If I'm going to have heavy involvement, and it's not just a financial investment, and I'm going to actually be an officer in the business, I’m very guarded on that now. I won't even do business if I'm not the head of the business on the board. I'm very, very skeptical about the strategy of how I choose these businesses. Now, that's the first thing I learned. The second thing that I learned from it is if you have a vision, and a vision is yours, see it through, you don't pass the baton on your vision. And let somebody else orchestrate it, run it. Those things are very difficult to swallow as well. But like I said, you live in you learn, investment is tough. There are going to be things that are successful. And they're going to be things that are not so successful. But as long as you give it your 1,000%. That's all you can do. That's all you can really do.

Adam: You used the word roller coaster. And it piqued my interest. Because looking back on your journey, you've enjoyed incredible highs, you've enjoyed incredible lows. And I want to know if you could share with listeners, what advice you have on how anyone can manage the highs and lows that they go through. We all go through highs and lows. As you said you're a public figure. So your highs are going to be magnified, and your lows are going to be magnified. Those of us who might not necessarily be as high profile as you were still experiencing highs and lows. We're just not having those highs and lows as visible to as many people. What advice do you have on how anyone can navigate the highs and lows that they're facing?

Ja: It's simple, stand on it. Stand on it all easier, and celebrate the victories. Because you can't hide when you have the failures. You got to stand on it. You got to stand on it. Wear it just as you wear the victories. I did a sit-down fireside chat, no pun intended. Maybe 50 of the top CMOs in the country, did it for Forbes. And one of the main topics that I wanted to get across to all of them is we all get up here. And when we do these Fireside Chats we all talk about the successes and how great our businesses on how successful we are now in the journey was and this and that and third but nobody ever talks about the failures. And those are the things that make the victories that much sweeter, but also you have to go through certain failures to get to the victories. And if you're a new entrepreneur, you're just getting into this, it may look like a fucking Instagram feed to you when you're just seeing all the victory, all the great, all the good, but you're not seeing the reality of what it really is to get to that. That, to me, is important. I tell people all the time, I say it was the best part of being an artist and being Ja Rule, what you've gone through in this thing, and I tell him all the time, it's not the success, it’s the journey. I could get sometimes some of the accolades and some of the things that I've done in my career and throughout, but I never forget the journey, I never forget what it felt like, you know, the hard knock life tool or survival that it was taught me and X jam in the room and shit like that you never forget that. You'll never forget those things. And so, for me, it's all about that journey, that struggle, because when you have success, it keeps you ever so grounded to let you know that that's where it started. And any slight failure could bring you back to that humble beginning. So, enjoy the successes, but also be humble and appreciative of the blessings that you've been able to have throughout your life. And so I've learned that lesson along the way.

Adam: Ja, what do you believe makes a great leader? And what can anyone do to become a better leader?

Ja: People like to say leaders are born. I don't know, I believe, of course, you can have leadership qualities, to be born with leadership qualities. But I also believe leaders have made, you can learn to be a very good leader. I think the best way to lead is by example. I can't tell you, it's like the reason why when I went to prison, I said I'm gonna sit my ass down, and I'm going to get my GED while I'm here. Because I can't preach education to my kids. I myself didn't try them further my education, very hypocritical. And so my best way to lead by example, if I'm gonna tell you to do it, I've already fucking done it. You understand and are not scared to go do it again. And that is a sign of good leadership to me.

Adam: Ja, what can anyone listening to this conversation do to become more successful personally and professionally?

Ja: Believe in yourself, your dream, and your passion. Be very passionate about what it is that you want in life and go for it. It's so many times I've been told I couldn't do something or this is not possible. There have been times when I've been told they'll never give me that job. You're asking for way too much. Well, I say that all you can do is act. You got to tell me no. And even after the no, I still have a reason to ask why you're telling me no. Because you have to be overly confident in believing in yourself. Make others believe in you. If you don't believe in yourself, if you have any inkling of self-doubt, why should I believe in you? You don't even really believe in yourself. So like, if they can see through it, and you don't truly believe it, people will see through it. So you have to have overconfidence like crazy competence. Like, he's crazy. He thinks he can do that. And yeah, that's the kind of confidence you have to have in yourself. To the point where people like he's fucking crazy. And if they're not saying that you might need to dream and think a little bit big.

Adam: How did you develop that level of confidence in yourself? And how can anyone develop that level of self-confidence?

Ja: I say it all the time. And I wish I could bottle up my confidence and sell it. Because I just believe in myself, man. I've been through so much, I've been through everything. My back has been against the wall for I feel my whole life. I'm an only child. I didn't have a financial upbringing, and I grew up in very humble beginnings. There was a lot missing. And I just had to figure a lot of things out. And so in doing that, and when people telling you, you can't do that, or only these kinds of people do that, then you achieve it. And then they tell you the only reason why you did that is because you got lucky or whatever. And then you turn around and say okay, well I'm gonna do this again. I'm gonna do this, I'm gonna do it. And then you just keep doing it for me. That's what it's about. It's about having that confidence to keep going and keep doing. You just got to believe.

Adam: To me, the magic word, summarizing everything you said is experience. Putting yourself out there and getting experience, not being afraid to fall down, not being afraid to get knocked down. And when you do get back up because whatever experience you have, is going to be the experience that's going to help you get that much better, is going to help you take that next step, is going to help you ultimately develop the confidence that you need to propel you to get to that next level.

Ja: Absolutely. Absolutely.

Adam: Ja, thank you for all the great advice, and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Ja: Thanks for having me. I appreciate it.


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally-recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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