I recently spoke to Jack and Patti Phillips. Patti is the CEO of the ROI Institute Inc. and Jack is chairman of the ROI Institute Inc. They are the co-authors of the new book Show the Value of What You Do.

Adam: Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice. First things first, though, I am sure readers would love to learn more about you. How did you get here? What experiences, failures, setbacks or challenges have been most instrumental to your growth?

Jack: This process had its beginnings several decades ago when I had a request to show the value of a co-operative education program at Lockheed. From that original request, we developed a process that has been refined and improved, making it more user-friendly. It has evolved and developed and has been accepted to become the most used evaluation system in the world. Along the way, there were many challenges. People resist this process because they think it's too complicated and complex, will take too much time, and is unnecessary. We have worked to overcome this resistance to make it acceptable to its users, executives, and researchers. Our new book, Show the Value of What You Do, presents a simplified and concise version of this original methodology.

Patti: I joined the process in 1997 with the challenge of implementing this methodology globally. This process is now being used in 70 countries, and our books have been translated into 38 different languages. There have been several obstacles along the way, as people sometimes fear the results or numbers. We have overcome these by continuing to simplify, explaining why this is needed, and the importance of this process.

Adam: What do you hope readers take away from your new book?

Patti: Leaders are successful when they follow this chain of value with five levels of outcomes. First, there must be a good reaction to the leader, as she tries to earn respect and maybe even make it exciting. Second, the followers must learn from the leader, they have some takeaways. Third, a leader must inspire others to take action to do something. In that role, leaders become influencers, causing followers to apply what they have learned. Fourth, there is the consequence of actions, the impact of the application. Fifth, the journey should be worth it for the follower and the leader. That's the ROI. Leaders need to understand that these levels of success will apply to any situation.

Jack: With the five levels of outcomes, leaders need to know they can get from here to there. How to collect data on these different levels, analyze the data, and make adjustments and improvements. The process begins with the end in mind, which means identifying the impact measure you want to improve. The second step involves selecting the right solution or approach to improve the measure you identified in Step 1. In the third step, the leader expects success by setting objectives at each level. The book details how to set precise objectives to achieve desired outcomes. In the fourth step, you collect data along four levels. In Step 5, you analyze the data. Finally, the sixth step involves leveraging the results with a focus on process improvement and making things better. 

Adam: In your experience, what are the key steps to growing and scaling your business? 

Patti: This involves several key issues. The first is making sure the business is scalable by understanding what scaling actually looks like. The second step is having the financial resources to fund the scaling. The third step is having the key talent to achieve that scaling and make it successful. The fourth step is ensuring that the market needs and accepts the scaled-up business. 

Jack: Along the way, it is going to take great leadership, particularly for the talent portion of those steps. Great leaders drive great results, and great leaders have to focus on delivering impact and doing it efficiently. That's the ROI. 

Adam: What do you believe are the defining qualities of an effective leader? 

Jack: There are so many definitions of great leadership. You can read almost any book and see some interesting twists and turns of leadership. Great companies have been built around offering specific leadership competencies. Whatever the competencies, they simply evolve around setting clear goals, having good communications, providing effective feedback mechanisms, and rewarding and recognizing performance. 

Patti: Almost any set of leadership competencies can deliver value. Since the pandemic, we’ve seen a focus on listening to employees using empathy and ensuring that we are inclusive in all our processes. The key is to ensure that the competencies you are using are absorbed (learned), used (applied), and have an impact in the organization. 

Adam: How can leaders and aspiring leaders take their leadership skills to the next level? 

Patti: That's a great question, and that's the heart of this book. So often, we think that success occurs when we know something. But in reality, it's not what you know; it's what you do with what you know (behaviors) and the consequence of the behavior (impact) that makes the difference. Success is not defined by what we know or do, but by the impact. So good leaders don't stop with good leader behavior. They make sure they have a clear reason why that new behavior is in place and how to get there. 

Jack: The challenge for leaders is to focus on the impact and, occasionally, think about the ROI. If the team is taking on a new project and the leader is leading them through that project, we want to ensure that the project has turned a positive ROI. Therefore, leaders must keep moving to the next level but not ignore the lower levels. If the followers do not have a positive perception of the leader (reaction), their work will go nowhere. If no one knows what to do to be successful (learning), the project won't be successful. When the focus is on just behaviors with no consequence, that's just being busy. 

Adam: How can leaders evaluate the success of their projects, programs, and own development? 

Patti: What we offer in the book is how to design the project or program for success in the beginning. In summary, we show how to plan for the results, capture data to show the results, analyze results properly, and leverage that at the end. 

Jack: Not all projects or programs should be evaluated through all these levels, but the important ones do need it. Those programs are expensive, strategic, critical to the organization, and maybe important to the senior team. These programs need to be evaluated to impact and ROI following this process. 

Adam: What are your three best tips applicable to entrepreneurs, executives, and civic leaders? 

Patti: I am reminded of a quote that we often use in our books: “When delivering results, hope is not a strategy, luck is not a factor, and doing nothing is not an option.” You need to be proactive and show the value of what you are doing even when you are not asked for it. Waiting for the request is dysfunctional. 

Because of the request, three things happen: 

1. There is a short timeline to provide results, 

2. You are now defending the project, and 

3. ROI is on someone else's agenda. You want to keep it on your agenda. 

Jack: Start with the end in mind with a clear business measure and make sure each project and program is designed with the end in mind. Follow up to make sure the desired result has been delivered. Anticipate failure and adjust. Use process improvement to make it better each time. 

Adam: What is your best advice on building, leading, and managing teams? 

Patti: Creating a culture of accountability where everyone understands success, how it is measured, and at what level. Where everyone strives to reach success at least to the impact level, and we all strive to get there. That is when the culture delivers the results because they see what results mean. They have a way of getting there and are clearly supported along the way. Our book might be best described as a tool for creating a culture of accountability in an organization. 

Jack: Put clear expectations in front of individuals and provide them with the resources and support they need to get there. So many people don't know the end goal and may be busy but not understand what is really important in the organization. 

Adam: What is the single best piece of advice you have ever received? 

Patti: My single best piece of advice came from my father, as I saw him ask teenagers, “What's your purpose?” He made me realize that we have to think through why we are doing things and the ultimate out

Jack: W. Edwards Deming once said, "Every system is perfectly designed to deliver the results it gets." That's the important advice that has stuck with me. If we want specific results at the end, we have to design for it. If we don’t design for it, then our design (or lack of) gets us the disappointing results we may be facing. 

Adam: Is there anything else you would like to share?

Patti: We invite you to get involved with this book. We think that you will find it to be engaging and interesting. We have more than 20 stories about how this methodology has helped individuals achieve success at the impact and ROI levels and use that success to enhance support, funding, and their career.

Jack: We purposely made this book brief. It provides a quick overview and is void of a lot of mathematics, finance, and accounting. It works off a simple logic model and easy mathematics to get you where you need to be. It can make a world of difference, and for many of our key clients, it's a game changer for them in how they operate and the success they deliver.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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