I recently interviewed former 7-Eleven and Blockbuster CEO James Keyes on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today was the leader of two of America's largest and best-known companies. James Keyes was the CEO of 7-Eleven and was the CEO of Blockbuster. James is the author of the new book, Education is Freedom. Jim, thank you for joining us.

James: Great to be with you.

Adam: You grew up in poverty in a small town in Central Massachusetts, your dad worked in the local factory and struggled to get by. And early on, it felt like that was destiny for you. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What experiences and lessons most significantly shaped your worldview and ultimately shaped the trajectory of your success?

James: Sure, that's a difficult journey to figure out where to begin with. But let me just say that my reaction to the word poverty when you said it was an interesting one because it always gives me a little bit of sharp pain to hear Jim grew up in poverty. And while that was the reality, I never saw it as poverty at the time. I think that's the case with many people who grow up in challenging circumstances. They don't see themselves as poor. And the irony was growing up, literally, without running water in a three-room shack with a wood-burning stove in Massachusetts with cold. The irony was, I thought I had a great life as a child. And looking back, one of the things I remember is, my friends used to love to come and play at my house, even though they had fancy toys and big, warm houses. My dad had junk cars out in the yard, we had a blast, we would climb around in these chunk cars, and let our imagination work. And so looking back on it today, I have a wonderful lesson that I was more free in many ways. I had freedom, I didn't have money. But I had a tremendous amount of freedom, maybe more freedom than my friends who grew up in a much more structured environment. And that freedom is something I think that I'm trying to tell that story today. Because it's not really about wealth, even though I'm privileged today to say, done all right. Today, my greatest riches are the freedom that I have to do anything I want to do anywhere in the world that grew from that adversity ironically.

Adam: I love that. Happiness is appreciating what you have, instead of longing for what you don't have. And you're framing it around freedom. I can do whatever I want regardless of what my circumstances are. I can control my destiny. It's ultimately on me to decide how to get to where I want to go. It starts with setting goals, setting objectives, and then taking the steps required to get there.

James: Exactly. And an important piece of that puzzle is recognizing this is the hardest learning, but it was my most important learning. Took years to finally let this sink in that adversity that I faced as a child ended up giving me the strength that I had to do what I do today, and that there are only two ways to respond to change, or respond to adversity or bad situations. You can have your head down and be a victim and woe is me. Or you can step back and say, this is happening for a reason. And if I can learn from this, I'm going to come out the other side as a better person. And maybe there's an opportunity here. I think that's the key in so many cases that it doesn't matter where you grow up, how you grow up. The point is if you can learn from those circumstances, good or bad, and let that learning propel you to do anything you want to do in life, the riches of life are just waiting for you to make it happen.

Adam: It's a really important lesson. Adversity is inevitable. The magnitude of the adversity you face is going to vary. When you face adversity, it is going to vary. The type of adversity you're going to face will vary. But at the end of the day, your success is going to be dictated by your attitude, your approach, and your mindset. You framed it beautifully. You viewed those early adversities as opportunities to help you become better and to help you ultimately become the successful leader that you are today.

James: Yeah, I wish I had known that when I was a kid. I've always been a space geek. And there's a wonderful Latin expression some of my astronaut friends have used. It's 'Per aspera ad astra'. And it's Latin for from adversity to the stars. And it says it's so well. If you can use those challenges that you've had at any stage of your life, rather than sink you to instead propel you to the next level, the possibilities are infinite.

Adam: I love that. And diversity is going to be a key theme of this conversation because you've led in very different environments, you led 7-Eleven, which was a company that you took to great heights. When you were CEO of 7-Eleven, shareholder value increased tenfold, and the company was ultimately acquired. Huge success. But when you were CEO of Blockbuster, you took over the company as it was in a steep downward spiral. It had already lost most of its value before you joined. But you became CEO, and you weren't able to turn things around. Very different experience. What were the best lessons that you learned from both of those experiences?

James: Well, I have a favorite expression I use, it's a Nelson Mandela quote. I was very fortunate to be able to have President Mandela support one of the foundations that I began back in the year 2000, called Education is Freedom Foundation. And I love this quote by Mandela, because here's a guy who was in prison for 20 years or something like that. And you'd think he'd be bitter. And you think he's talking about adversity. He was in jail, and in pretty hard conditions. But my favorite Mandela quote is, 'I never lose.' Here's a guy, what better excuse for losing than being locked up for that many years? He says, "I never lose. I win, or I learn." And his time in either Robins Island or Pollsmoor prison in South Africa. He studied law, he made use of that time to study law. So while there was a hardship situation, came out of that adversity as President of South Africa. What a great example. So it puts in context of the challenges I faced in the business world. Ironically, 7-Eleven was in bankruptcy. In 1991, I joined the company. Shortly before that, and found myself going from a great start to my career in a major oil company, to all of a sudden being in 7-Eleven and finding that it was bankrupt. And yet, that bankruptcy turned into a tremendous opportunity, both personally and for 7-Eleven. It was a wake-up call for both of us, actually, for the company and me, in my career. Turning that form of adversity into opportunity was a great lesson for me to take to Blockbuster. And to realize that whatever happened at Blockbuster, I wasn't going to lose. I was going to learn from the experience. So that gave me the confidence to go forward. And I also had a very important learning that it's not personal. This is the problem so many people have. They take very personally, business success or failure. Business success in the sense that, oh, look at me, I just increased stock value 10 times. I'm a genius. That's not very effective. Nor is woe is me, I have failed in my mission, and the company had to file for a restructuring. I'm an idiot. That isn't very effective, either. So it ultimately is not personal. It's business. And as long as you're doing your best, and you put your best effort forward, then you're gonna learn from that experience and take it through that adversity to the next opportunity.

Adam: As you think about your time leading those two businesses, businesses with extremely contrasting outcomes, I couldn't think of two outcomes that could be any more different. How can anyone listen to this conversation who's in a position to influence their business, and take action to ensure that their company enjoys the fate of 7-Eleven rather than Blockbuster?

James: I have a few things that I encourage, particularly entrepreneurs. Entrepreneurs can be in a big company. It doesn't need to be a startup. I saw myself as an entrepreneur both at 7-Eleven and at Blockbuster. My advice to those in that situation is three things. I call it my three learnings, what to learn about being able to weather the storms. One is change, and there are three C's for simplicity. Change, confidence, and clarity. And change is inevitable. 7-Eleven went through dramatic change, it had to respond, and it was able to respond. We went through a restructuring, completely redefined the way we delivered products, and where we sourced products, and ended up with 7-Eleven, not only a 10 times increase in shareholder value, but today they have grown to 80,000 stores worldwide. So change is something 711 embraced. I had to have confidence because living through a turbulent period, there's a tendency to let fear overwhelm you. I'm going to lose my job, people will think badly of me, the company is going through problems, you personalize it. But the confidence to keep your head up and look to the future is critically important. And then finally, clarity. In times of crisis, whether it's the world going through a financial crisis, or COVID, or whatever it is, communications, clarity of communications, and keeping things simple, are so important. That's the best way to navigate that storm and to have your team stay on board is to constantly communicate with all of your stakeholders, both internally your employees, and externally, your shareholders so that they are with you as you navigate these difficult waters to a safe harbor.

Adam: Jim, I want to break down each of those three C's. How can leaders most effectively navigate change?

James: The number one most important aspect of navigating change is recognizing the change. There's a denial effect that everybody has. But Blockbuster may have been in denial that the business is going to be ultimately digital. I had to deal with that. In the case of many of the internal employees who weren't sure if we were ever going to make that transition, there's a tendency for inertia to come into any corporation. 7-Eleven had stopped changing back in the 80s and 90s. They were a beer, soft drinks, and cigarettes market. And they weren't adapting to new next-generation forms of convenience. So, we had to do that. So the most important element of change is recognizing it and accepting it, and then being able to proactively respond to it. Because with change, it's not the change itself that's important. It's the response to change that separates winners from losers.

Adam: What you shared applies to not only leading your business but also leading your own life. The most successful leaders are adaptable is one of the most important characteristics of the most successful leaders.

James: It absolutely is. And here's what happens. I find so often that the culprit when change occurs is fear. That's the number one culprit because the most important thing is how you respond to the change. Well, you can respond in a proactive, positive fashion, or you can respond negatively. In other words, start blaming people, hunker down, resistance to moving forward. And that victim thing, we see it a lot in society today. And if you just turn on the news, there's a lot of victimization, it's their fault. Somebody's doing something to me, they're gonna take something away from me, etc. And that's all caused by fear to get into the deep roots of it. It's fear, fear of the unknown. What's the antidote to fear? Knowledge, that we don't have the confidence to make it through change, like you said, in your personal life, forget business, your personal life. Devastating things are going to happen. And the family is going to be looking to you to how you respond to that awful thing that just happened. Are you going to be the victim and have your head down? In which case the whole family may have their head down. Or are you going to say we'll get through this and have a positive outlook and not be afraid, but be able to learn from that experience and move to the next level?

Adam: And there's not being afraid. But a step further is developing real confidence, which is another key characteristic of the most successful leaders. Self-confidence, belief in yourself. If you don't believe in yourself, who's gonna believe in you? How can anyone develop true self-confidence?

James: I've been blessed with some great mentors for this book, guys like John Maxwell, Leadership Gurus, and Stedman Graham who has written 12 books. Harvey Mackay has written 15 books, 12 best sellers, or something like that. That's great advice. One of the best I had, was writing to an event sitting next to Harvey Mackay one night, I told him about my book. I told him, I have a whole chapter on confidence. I have a chapter on fear, and how we have to learn to overcome fear and a chapter on the importance of confidence in moving forward. And he said, "I've got a gift for you. Let me share this with you. I'm gonna give you three words that you can use in your book. They're in every one of my 12 best sellers. But I've never actually had one with this title, but you can use it in your book." Wow, this is great. Thank you. So he gave me three words, he said, "Prepare to win." I was like, "Oh, thanks, Harvey. That's great. Prepare to win. That was too simple." And he said, "Yeah, think about it. Prepare to win. Preparation is what gives you the confidence to win." I was like, wow, that's sunk in for a second, prepare to win. The more you prepare, the more confident you can be and the better chance you have of succeeding in winning. And if you apply that as I started researching for my book, I started doing some work on that. I was like, okay, who are some of the most confident athletes out there? Tiger Woods, I was at the Masters once. And it was like eight o'clock at night. And I was having a drink near the driving range and out came Tiger Woods at night, in the dark with his golf bag. And he was practicing, it was Saturday night, and nobody else was practicing. Tiger Woods was practicing, preparing for the next day. Prepare to win. Tom Brady has a terrific game at quarterback. What's he doing? He goes back into the locker room and he's looking at game videos to try to see what he did well, and what he didn't do well. Prepare. Isn't that awesome?

Adam: I love that. I interviewed with Bernie Williams, the great New York Yankee. I told Bernie off the air that I rooted against him when he played but it was good to connect with him. At Thirty Minute Mentors, I'm a big Angels fan. So he got the better of us. I asked Bernie, how did you feel in the highest pressure moments? Game 7, World Series, bottom of the 9th, you're up at the plate. Do you feel pressure or do you feel excitement? And it got into this whole conversation around exactly what you just shared, which is the very best athletes feel the excitement. They don't feel pressure. And the reason is they have put in the work. They're waiting for that moment. This is the moment that they're living for. And you don't need to be an athlete to have that mentality. You don't need to be an athlete to have that mindset. You could apply that to whatever you do, whatever your craft is.

James: Exactly. And sometimes the most elegant solutions or the simplest solutions, and people take something like this and say, "Oh, prepare to win. That's silly. What kind of lesson is there in that?" But ultimately what you just said is so correct. Preparation ultimately gives you confidence. With confidence, you have a greater chance of success. And so as you said it can apply to anything. It's easy to see a professional athlete and say, okay, well I see why Michael Jordan was so successful because he prepared and he was confident because of that preparation or Tom Brady. But take it down to something simple. Let's say you've got two students that are taking a test. And student A is all worried about the test and oh my gosh, oh my gosh, but they're not studying. And they get into the test and they're not prepared. And they're not confident, what are they going to do? It's a self-fulfilling destiny, they're going to do poorly. Versus student B, who does the work, puts the work in, they're prepared, walks into that test with confidence, and gets an A. It's common sense but it does make the difference because you've got to have confidence to succeed. And confidence doesn't come from just walking around being arrogant. And confidence comes from putting the work in and being prepared.

Adam: 100%. And when you have that confidence, and when you've done the work, you walk in not feeling the pressure, not feeling nervous, but feeling excited, feeling fired up, ready to go, pumped up, whether it's being on stage, whether it's being at the plate, whether it's taking a test. I can tell you that when I played baseball, I didn't feel that same excitement when I got up to the plate, because I wasn't a very good hitter. I knew when I got up to the plate, there was a pretty good chance that I would get out. But Bernie Williams knows that when he's up at the plate, there's a pretty good chance that he's gonna get on base. So the work that you've done going up to that at-bat is going to dictate your mindset, which is ultimately going to dictate your performance.

James: It is. It's true, I was a baseball player too, and also wasn't a Yankee fan. I was a Red Sox fan. I know, I'm sorry. But I wish I had read my book in high school. Because like you said, I was a pretty decent baseball player as co-captain of my team. But I didn't have that confidence at the plate. And the reason is, in hindsight, I never took the batting practice the time, the effort that I really should have taken. I could have stayed after practice for an extra hour with a pitching coach, and done some extra at bat. We all took it for granted. I'm playing, I went to practice. But I didn't do that extra work. So I wasn't as confident. I think back at how good could I have been had I known that a little more preparation would've made me a far better ballplayer.

Adam: I had the exact opposite issue. I was the co-captain of my team, as well in high school. And I worked harder than anyone else. I was the co-captain of my team not because I was good, but because I was a good leader. And I discovered after I stopped playing baseball, it probably would have been good to have had eye coordination that would probably have made me better.

James: There are some other factors. Exactly. Adam, while we're unconfident, there's a really important element here. It's a delicate one because those of us who are confident in business or anything, also run that risk of walking over that very, very fine line into arrogance. I have been accused of being arrogant. Now there's a really important difference. Again, in the research for the book about confidence, I was like, How do I understand where that line is between confidence and arrogance because that can be derailing? If that same professional athlete hasn't put in the preparation or doesn't have the hand-eye coordination, and they are still overly confident, they could be perceived as arrogant and it derails their success. Well, I went back to Norman Vincent Peale, who was one of the Gurus of confidence, the art of power, and positive thinking, and he was not only an author, but he was a preacher. And interestingly, the young Donald Trump used to go listen to him. His dad, Donald Trump's father used to take him so a lot of his confidence came from listening to Norman Vincent Peale. Talk about how important it is and how confidence is key to success. But there's a really important message that Norman Vincent Peale delivered that not everybody learns. And that's the equal importance of humility. And the way Norman Vincent Peale describes it, it's so valuable because it's not humility in the sense that some people think, oh, I'm just no good and blah blah blah. I'm not smart. I'm not this, not that. No, not that kind of humility. It's humility in the sense that I know what I don't know. I know I have so much more to learn. I may be the best. I may be the GOAT, the greatest of all time. But man, I've got so much more I can learn. So that keeps me from crossing that line, from pure confidence, over into arrogance. As long as I know that I've got more to learn then I'll respect that person who may have something that I can learn from.

Adam: And it ties into the critical importance of self-awareness. Know thyself.

James: I've got a cool formula that describes exactly what you just said, that self-awareness element. Do you want to hear it? Okay, so I've been struggling. Education is Freedom is the title of the book, and I'm struggling with it, but how come people are doing such stupid stuff when they are very highly educated? It was killing me trying to figure this out. How do you explain things that make no sense at all, people who are very intelligent saying and doing dumb things? There's got to be an explanation for this. And so I started looking at IQ, which is the intelligence quotient. And then, as you said, there's a fact that there's EQ, there's the emotional quotient. We've all heard, IQ + EQ are important to balance an individual out. So I figured that there's something like this. IQ is intelligence, IQ + EQ equals call it knowledge because you've got enough self-awareness that you're emotionally balanced. So you've got knowledge. But there's still a missing piece of the puzzle. And that's wisdom. That's the wisdom to know what you don't know. That's that humility. That's that integrity. That's the compassion for other people. What is that? That's just pure character. So I've coined this concept of CQ. So you've got IQ, you've got EQ, well, what about CQ? What about the character quotient? What about the ability for somebody to go beyond just pure knowledge into what I would call wisdom, and having the wisdom to know that they're not alone in this world that gotta be compassionate about other people, they've got to have integrity to be able to survive, because people have to be able to trust them. And they have to have humility to know that they've got more to learn. That character quotient, I think, is elusive for so many of us.

Adam: That's a great formula. You didn't mention GQ. But that's a whole nother thing. That's a great formula. And I want to know if you could break down. Number one, how can anyone develop and improve their EQ? And number two, how can anyone develop and improve their CQ?

James: Well, I think it starts with awareness. Like anything, we all have more to learn. And if we are more aware, and I'll give you an example at great risk, because this term has become so polarizing. But this concept of woke that we're hearing. It started in the 1920s, in the African American community, as a way, ironically, for people to be sensitive to other people's prejudice. That's like, look, just be aware that it may be there. And it's not their fault. They grew up with this perceived notion and we've got to deal with it. Let's be sensitive to it. So the whole concept of woke ironically started as sensitivity as the emotion Quotient or even the character quotient. And yet, it has become such a polarizing thing that we hear people using it almost as a weapon against others, to say, "Oh, you're woke, therefore, you're bad." When the irony is it started in a 180-degree opposite position. So I think awareness is so important that before we attack others, if we can have the ability to understand them better, then it might be that we don't need to go on the offense, we might be able to be more compassionate in the process. Awareness and self-awareness, I think, are the prerequisites to being able to improve your EQ or your CQ.

Adam: And something that you mentioned, which is extremely valuable for everyone, the importance of understanding others. It's human nature to want to walk into a room and say something, express yourself. I have an idea, I want to say it. In reality, there's enormous value in taking a step back listening, and asking questions. Understanding the perspectives of those around you. It's only going to enrich your idea, your thought. Whatever you have to share is only going to get better when you take the time to take in the views and perspectives of those around you.

James: Exactly. I use Mark Cuban as an example, ironically, I heard him give an interview one time, and he talked about the best piece of advice he had ever had. Wow, it's got to be pretty important. He said that someone sat him down once and said, "Mark, you've got to listen. And I want you to walk into every meeting that you have. And the first thing you write on your little notepad is listen." And he said he's practiced that throughout his career. And it's been so important because you're right, we're too often coming up with the response before we even listen to the question or listen to another person's point of view.

Adam: Seek to understand others and listen. Invaluable.

James: Exactly. I'll add one last thing while we're on this. I put a chapter on cultural literacy, because when we understand others, it becomes a little more challenging if they have a sometimes different religion or different race, or if they're from a different country, we tend to sometimes not have that openness or that understanding. So I was going to have a chapter on diversity. And I thought, oh, man, here's another word that has become this very polarizing thing. If you say diversity, then people will jump on either side of the argument that it's good, it's bad, whatever. So I threw that word aside, I said, you know what? Let me talk about cultural literacy. Because that's really what we're talking about here. When I went to start doing business in Japan, I tried to learn the language. Because I understood that I really wouldn't know their culture unless I understood the language. It was shocking how much more I understood and how much more successful I could be working within that culture because I knew a little more about where people were coming from having learned the language. So that cultural literacy and I don't mean that, that you have to learn every language, but understanding that that culture is going to be different, maybe the way they look, the way they dress, the way they speak, the way they eat. And I can take good from that and make it part of my character quilt if you will, that I'm weaving, and I'm going to learn from their culture. So that cultural literacy piece is, I think, a really important part of this concept of understanding others.

Adam: You mentioned that diversity can be a polarizing word. And unfortunately, that's true. But I want to dive into that with you for just a bit. Something that I've found to be universally true from my own experience, and from my conversations with the most successful leaders in business, in the military, across industries. When you build truly diverse teams with truly diverse perspectives, with truly diverse experiences, teams that represent a truly diverse cross-section of people, your teams are going to be stronger, your organization is going to be stronger. That's how you build a winning team. That's how you build a winning culture. That's how you build a winning organization. And I'm interested if you agree with that if you disagree with that if you have any thoughts one way or the other on that perspective.

James: I agree with that. That's why I use cultural literacy instead of the diversity word because I'm trying to break through that obstacle that occurs when someone picks up on a polarizing issue like this and judges it because ultimately, call it diversity, call it cultural literacy. The more we can bring people with different skills together, the more successful we're going to be. It's just really as simple as that. We all have something unique to offer. So that ability to tap into those unique strengths makes us bigger and better than the sum of the parts. My learning about that came from, ironically, I went to a junior year abroad program in London and I thought, wow, everybody's gonna speak English, and all of a sudden, I'm thrust into an environment coming from Central Massachusetts where everybody was light, and Irish and Italian or whatever. All of a sudden thrust into a world where my friends were Pakistani, Indian, English, and a whole bunch of other cultures. And I was exposed for the first time to some forms of discrimination. Even as a Yankee, I was getting a hard time from my British friends. I'm like, whoa, what's going on here? And then finally, I assimilated into their culture while I was there and learned to play cricket and learned to play rugby and learned to drink warm beer in the pints. And it was a tremendous experience. But if I stayed in my little American bubble with other American friends, I never would have had the richness of understanding that culture and being invited to play on the cricket team with them, because I was not one of them. So it was a fascinating learning experience. But it's something I wish all Americans had an opportunity to learn. It took immersion for me into another environment so that I was no longer the majority. I was the minority in my little way. It took that immersion for me to become aware of the power that true cultural literacy could bring.

Adam: What can anyone listening to this conversation do to become more successful personally and professionally?

James: Literally, this was the purpose of my book, it's called Education is Freedom. And really, the message is that we can do anything we want in this world and to the extent that we can use knowledge to overcome all of these issues that we face, whether it's problems with diversity, immigration, and crime, and virtually any problem that we face out there in society today. The root cause we break it down to what's causing that problem, there are fear issues, there's ignorance, issues, and knowledge issues, if we can bring knowledge to the table, any of us, ourselves take the responsibility for learning more and adopting critical thinking and curiosity, again, that we learned in grade school, but many of us have put on the shelf. If we can get back to that, then we can shine a light on these problems in a way that takes away that fear. Because what happens when you're a little kid in the dark, and you're scared, you turn on the light, or mom comes in, turns on the light, and you go, oh, there's no monster under the bed. I'm okay. That's what knowledge is. Knowledge is the light. And if we can encourage more and more people to turn to the light, to turn to knowledge, to eliminate the fear, we can reverse that cycle of ignorance and fear and violence, and anger, we reverse that and replace it with knowledge, hope, opportunity, and peace. Sounds a little pollyannish. But in so many ways, it is true.

Adam: Jim, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

 James: I appreciate the opportunity, and it's been a lot of fun.


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally-recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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