Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Former Jamba Juice CEO James White

I recently interviewed James White on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today led the turnaround of one of America's favorite brands. James White was the CEO of Jamba Juice and is the author of the new book, Anti-Racist Leadership: How to Transform Corporate Culture in a Race-Conscious World. James, thank you for joining us.

James: Adam, I'm thrilled to be on with you today.

Adam: You grew up in St. Louis in a tight-knit family. You studied Business at the University of Missouri as an undergrad and you got your MBA at Fontbonne University, a small school, also in St. Louis. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What were the key experiences and lessons that shaped your worldview and shaped the trajectory of your success?

James: Adam, thanks for the question. Again, St. Louis native, really humble beginnings working-class family. I ended up being the first member of my family to graduate from college. But as I think about it, probably one of the early defining moments for me as a leader, I go back to my fourth-grade class. I was in a public school, probably too large, in a class of about 30 kids. For my fourth grade year, we never had a permanent teacher. I was a bit introverted at that time. So to make a long story short, I ended up getting tracked to a slow-track fifth-grade class. And I watched my mom intervene. And basically her words were “Not my son”. But as I think about leadership, and mentoring and empathy, watching my mom work on my behalf as a young person really changed the course of the rest of my life. I mean, I come out of the fourth-grade experience, leading to the fifth-grade experience. And then two years later, I'm having prep schools try to invite me to come to their school. And this is a kid that was tracked for the slow fifth-grade class. I share that to say we all need to take the time and show the kind of empathy that my mom showed for me as her son, as we think about leading people and building organizations. One of the things that I've never done since that moment is I never underestimate the human capacity to grow, to learn, and to do more than any of us believe possible.

Adam: I love that. And I love the fact that as you look back on the formative experiences in your life, it wasn't necessarily a mentor in your career. It wasn't necessarily a mentor in your professional life that was instrumental in making you the person that you are today. It was your mom. It was your mom stepping in and stepping up. And whether you're a professional mentor or a personal mentor, be that person, step in, step up, however you can.

James: And that is one of those things that as a young person, you don't really notice that. But I can look back on it retrospectively. And point to that, you know, that year in the fifth grade with my mom's really close oversight and mentorship has been critically important. And then kind of broader than that, just my mom and dad and the role they played in kind of shaping me as a young person into an adult.

Adam: I love that. And one other thing I wanted to add, James, is you mentioned that you came from a humble background. But coming from a humble background, coming from a privileged background, you came from a background where you had two parents who played key roles in driving you to success. And I think that's an important takeaway as well. It's not necessarily the financial privileges you have. It's the privileges you have insofar as, who's there supporting you, who's there helping you, who's there to mentor you.

James: Absolutely, and I view that as a gift every day. I've got, you know, friends of mine that didn't have the benefit of having, you know, both mom and dad in the household, kind of, guiding them on the path. I, you know, have them as they look back on their own lives, kind of, wonder, you know, how their careers and lives and opportunities might have turned out slightly differently for them if they had the same advantages that I had. You know, having my mom and dad kind of guide me through the process.

Adam: You started your career at Coke Cola and you spent the next 25 years climbing the corporate ladder at four different companies before becoming the CEO of Jamba Juice. Looking back, what were the keys to rising within your career? And what can anyone listening do to rise within their career?

James: I think the big lessons for me and you know, I go back to my parents, what I learned from my parents early on is the importance of hard work. And what I would say, Adam, early in your career, you can actually outwork people and advance your career. But you get to a place in a career, for me, it was around middle management, where everybody's going to put in the extra time. Everybody's going to put in the extra work. What most people don't know and don't think of doing is, you know, really making an investment in learning. You know, sometimes when we finish university or have an advanced degree, you assume that learning stops at that point. The place where I believe I ended up excelling, is, you know, really building new capabilities, investing in my own skills as a leader, and I did that overtime. And I do that even today. That investment in being a lifelong active learner, I think, is one of the biggest lessons that I share with your group. The final point that I've made really relates to people's leadership. And again, this ties back to my own kind of humble beginnings. I always look for two things: I try to lead teams and people. I want to understand what people are passionate about. And I want to play them to their strengths. Lots of leaders look for deficits in individuals. And I always look for strengths and passions. And if you play people to their passions, and they know how much you care about them, you as a leader always get much more discretionary effort.

Adam: James, I love every word you said. The importance of lifelong learning, the importance of focusing on what you bring to the table that is unique, your strengths rather than your weaknesses. I want to dive into the first thing you mentioned, which is the importance of lifelong learning and the importance of becoming a great leader. How can anyone listening to this conversation become a better leader?

James: I think one of the things that your listeners, I think, are on that path. I mean, listening to this podcast, and the many wonderful leaders, you know, from all walks of industry and entertainment that you have on this podcast is one of the ways to continue from a leadership perspective to hone your craft. For me, I was an active reader and an active listener to audiobooks. Back in my day, it would have been because, you know, listening to books on cassette would have been my version of audiobooks today. But if you don't have a set of experiences, you can actually vicariously build skills and experiences. And at least have some insights that as you meet different situations in a career that benefit you because you've at least thought about certain topics that maybe you haven't experienced at this point. So this active reader, active learner, and engaging actively in the industries in which you work; try to be a student of the industry. And those always play out positively from a career growth perspective.

Adam: On the point you made about leaning in on your strengths, focusing on what you bring to the table that you're great at, what were the most important skills that you developed over the course of your career that helped you make it into the C suite? And what were the most important skills that you developed that helped you excel once you're leading Jamba Juice?

James: I think the two things for me would be I started my career in commercial sales at the Coca Cola Company, hawking Minute Maid orange juice in southeast-southwest Missouri, to 100, you know, plus retail outlets. So the skillset that you develop, kind of, selling ideas and concepts is something as a business leader, that serves us all well, and it certainly ended up being a critical advantage for me. The second was, you know, the opportunity that I had at the Coca-Cola company to lead people as a 24-year-old. So my first leadership role was at the age of 24, a couple years out of college, and the team that I had the opportunity to lead were all a decade and a half older. So you can imagine the many, many lessons learned by working with that team. And the fundamental thing that I learned is people don't care how much you know, they care how much you care. And I learned early on to really focus in on leading. You lead people individually. And that's where you get the discretionary effort as a leader. When you focus in on the individual, and then you can, you know, build trust, and then collectively link people. But you lead teams and people individually. 

Adam: I want to talk more about your experience leading Jamba Juice. You took over as CEO of Jamba Juice in the first week of December 2008. The economy was in crisis. The country was in crisis. And on a micro level, Jamba Juice was in crisis as you were brought in specifically to take over a company that had a beloved brand, but it also had a broken business model. What did you do to lead the turnaround of Jamba Juice? And what were the best lessons you learned from that experience?

James: I think for me, the thing that really led me to that opportunity, and I had friends that said, “Jay, we knew you wanted to be a CEO, we're not sure this is the right opportunity to take”, but I knew a couple of things to the point you make around Jamba being a beloved brand, that I knew from my own diligence and my own experience with the brand. The second thing that I brought to the table was my own belief. You know, over a few decades of experience, if I could point the company in the right direction and make it through a six-month window, because, again, you set the state of the scene around the economy. Being in dire straits, we were going into the heart of the Great Recession, and I'm running a smoothie chain in the Fall. So it's the toughest season for this company. But I knew if I could make it through a couple of quarters, that I'd be able to really steer the company towards success. And where I focus is really on all the key stakeholder groups. I focused on the employees and got input from the employees or associates at the company. I work with the Board of Directors and I work with our key suppliers. And I think, importantly, I created mechanisms to hear from customers on what they thought was missing from our menu. And offering as a company, we quickly tried to formulate a plan to really turn around and transform the company. And I knew going in, it would take multiple years to, you know, have the plans to unfold. But we were able to really align the board and my team. We were able to have an impact on the menu in our offerings, and we built momentum over the first six months or so of my time there. And we ultimately turned around the company. The company increased its value fivefold over the course of my time at the company. And I think my greatest lessons coming out of the experiences is the power of the team and culture. And that's where we focus. And the second one is the power of having a plan that, you know, executes against on a daily, monthly basis, relentlessly. So really, those are the, you know, two of the really important lessons. We had a blueprint or a plan. And we really depended on the team to lead the work. And if you think about the retail industry, the frontline workers are the bottom line. So that's really where everything happens in a retail-oriented business. So those were the critical lessons for me.

Adam: Can you talk about the people who you hired as you were building the team, as you're turning the culture around? What did you look for in the people who you hired? And what are your best tips for listeners on the topic of hiring?

James: For me, I wanted people that had superpowers or strengths that I didn't have in certain areas. I wanted people that would bring talents to the company and experiences to the company that I didn't have. And that's one of the places where diversity really matters. I also wanted people that would play for the team first, versus themselves. I needed people that could work in a team environment and work collaboratively and work in a cross-functional fashion. Because I knew that's what we would need to ultimately transform the company. And, you know, for me, I always hire slow. But when I find people that don't fit, I try to make sure we exit those people from the company and the culture quickly. I think that's critically important.

Adam: You mentioned the word diversity. And you wrote a book called, Anti-Racist Leadership: How to Transform Corporate Culture in a Race-Conscious World. What is anti-racist leadership? Why is anti-racist leadership essential? And how can leaders build truly diverse and inclusive organizations?

James: All great, great questions. I think I'd start with how we thought about anti-racist leadership. And writing this book, we felt like this was a moment in time where it has never been more important, kind of, coming through the pandemic. And coming through this great racial reckoning for us to really be more definitive and what we stand for. And what's important, we make the point in the book that we're pro-Black, we're pro-LGBTQ, we're pro-Latinx, and we're feminists in terms of our approach; just to be clear out of the gates. And really, this is a book in a leadership approach that is created for all. So the idea is that we want every single person in the organization to bring their full selves to the company, in an authentic fashion. And really, the responsibility of leadership is to create an environment and a space at the table for everybody's voice to be heard, for them to be included in the decision-making, and for them to play to their full potential. And again, for me, I always go back to the work that my mom did with me. And one of the things we talked about in the book is the importance of empathy as a capability. And this is one of the, kind of, intergenerational learnings that I have with my daughter, Christina. She said, “Dad, you talk a lot about empathy, can empathy be learned?”. So we did two dozen interviews and we talked with lots of fantastic executives. And that's one idea that we explored. And I think we think the answer to that question is, absolutely. And as I think about empathy, it is the capacity to put yourself in someone else's shoes or pumps. But importantly, you want to then have compassion, and then translate that into some form of action inside your organization to allow people the space and the room to contribute to their fullest, and it gets back to my point around playing to people's passions and strengths.

Adam: I love that. I give a talk on the seven characteristics of a resonant leader. And one of those characteristics, in my view, is empathy. You need to deeply care for others. You need to genuinely feel others' pain. Leadership isn't about advancing your own self-interest. Leadership is about genuinely wanting others around you to be better, to do better for the team, to be better for the team, to do better. And that's not going to happen if you're not a caring person, if you're not a loving person, if you're not an empathetic person.

Adam: I couldn't agree with that more. I mean, I often think about, you know, a couple of the things that have, kind of, guided me as a leader. Leaders have to be teachers. I believe in the principle of servant leadership. And leadership always requires followership. And I talk a lot about discretionary effort. You pay an employee to do a job, and you'll get, you know, kind of a nine to five. But the people that you really connect with in a significant way and build trust, you'll always get their discretionary effort. One of the things that I recall commenting on when I interviewed for the Jamba job, I said you could give me any 10 people on the planet and I'll get more out of that set of 10 people, no matter where they come from, the nine out of 10 other leaders anywhere on the planet. And it's because I care. And it's because I understand you lead human beings, you lead them individually, and you lead them to their strengths and you lead them towards their passions.

Adam: Every leader in America is trying to wrap their arms around diversity and inclusion. How can leaders of any organization build truly diverse and truly inclusive organizations? What are your best tips?

James: I think we've got to spend time thinking about this in the same way, Adam, we spend time thinking about developing financial capability and building a resilient supply chain. This is really one of the most critical capabilities moving forward. As I think about the future of work, the future of work is going to require more inclusive leadership moving forward. And I think, for that reason, because it's so linked to the culture and the values of a company, it can't be delegated. So this is not something where you hire a chief diversity officer or chief people officer, and you delegate that work to them. This the CEO, the key executive, she has to be intimately involved in that work as you can't delegate culture. And for me, it starts wherever you are. And you do a thorough audit of the composition of the organization and makeup of the organization. And then what I always advise people to do is to think about what you want your organization to look like in the future state that advances your company from ability to acquire talent, from an ability to solve problems for customers, from an ability to garner capital, and fuel the growth of your business. And I think when you work from that vantage point, it allows you to really do a deep assessment of the organization and then build your company for it. We start where we are. And I think we've got to build the capacity for both the leader and the employees to, kind of, go on this journey of building a different kind of company together. I think what CEOs are typically challenged by is they typically need to be the person in the company that has all the answers. This is a topic where none of us have all the answers. As I think about all the things that I learned from my daughter over the last several years, if you think about the multiple generations that are in the workforce and workplace today, we're going to all be learners and teachers at different moments in time. And I think we've got to be open to that and bring a, you know, an open heart and mind to building a better company. And I firmly believe that the best companies and the best leaders, whether you're CEO or mid-level manager, the most capable leaders moving forward, they're going to get this and they're going to think about this whole idea of empathy that you talked about, as well as a capability that needs to be built.

Adam: I think that's such an important perspective. Great leaders are great listeners. Great leaders ask great questions. Great leaders have the humility to know what they don't know. Great leaders understand that if they're the smartest person in the room, they're in the wrong room. And they need to surround themselves with people who are a lot smarter than them. The only way to build a great team is by surrounding yourself with people with capabilities far greater than your own. Absolutely. To that end, I want to ask you a little bit more about the topic of team building and building a winning organizational culture. A key theme of your book is the importance of building a corporate culture focused on true meritocracy. What are the keys to building a culture focused on meritocracy?

James: I think the most critical thing is to really look at all the processes and systems in a company from, you know, how we hire people, you know, how do we promote people? How do we make assignments around key projects, which ultimately lead to who gets promoted? How do we think about salary? And we need to make sure that in an unintended way, are there things in our processes and systems that are biased in any way? And I think about really unbiased ways in all the hiring practices; taking the bias out of how we promote people, unbiasing our systems for promoting people or giving people critical assignments, and adding a filter that makes sure we've got the most diverse set of participants, really across the company, and being engaged in every piece of work. That's important. And like anything else in business, that's important. If it matters, you measure it.

Adam: We've talked a lot about how to build winning organizational cultures and how to build winning teams. We've talked about your success leading Jamba Juice. What is a failure that you've experienced over the course of your career and what did you learn from that experience?

James: Really many failures across a long career. I think the thing that I've learned the most is that if you can fail at, you know, smaller things and always learn from those, it becomes the source of both experience and allows you to really incorporate those lessons into the next time at-bat. So I'm a big proponent of incrementally, you know, trying to advance innovation and growth and doing that in a way that you can learn from it and really advance your career. If I give you a specific example of something that I look back on that I might have done differently, it would be as a, as a young leader, you know, how I thought about building my teams. I was, you know, always had a mindset that every person would have the capacity to be successful. And I think the thing that I've learned over time as you, you hire slow, but when you make a bad decision, and you've got somebody that isn't the right kind of contributor for the company, or doesn't matter, the company values, you may change. And that's one of the lessons that I carried with me as I took over as CEO of Jamba. I was really clear on what the values of the organization would be. And we made quick decisions on reshaping the leadership team. Upfront, we had, you know, a person or two that didn't share the same kind of values of the view of the future. And we freed up the future of some of those folks, which worked out well for them. And well for the kind of organization and team that we wanted to build. There's always going to be some non-negotiables in terms of value and culture.

Adam: What are those non-negotiables? 

James: Really, for me, it's going to always start with diversity as a critical driver for the way I think about building teams. And I think diversity, from multiple perspectives, is a combination of backgrounds. I'm a firm believer in, you know, really working on solutions from a cross-functional perspective. So I want people that can navigate across multiple functions. And then lived experience is also another dimension of that diversity. And I'm always looking to build that into my teams. And, you know, one of the other things that I talk about sometimes is, having a more diverse team is a bit messy upfront. And that's the part that people don't talk about. But once you can have a more diverse team, really align and get in sync, you're going to always out-compete and always out-innovate your competitors. And that's what I found really across my entire career.

Adam: You led one of America's favorite brands for eight years. What are your best tips on the topic of branding?

James: I was blessed to end up working with a phenomenal brand at the start. I mean, it was a beloved brand when I got there. And I think the biggest thing that I wanted to do, and this is one of the things that one of the board members challenged me to do, they made the point that this is the one of the venture guys that invested in Jamba. They said, “James, can you make this your life's work?”. So that's the mindset I went into trying to save this company with. And I wanted to incrementally modernize the brand and the company. I wanted to incrementally transform the people and the culture. And importantly, I wanted to make sure that I did no harm to the brand. So I wanted to make sure I clearly understood the things that made this brand such a beloved brand, even before I got there. And we were able to amplify those things. And there were some things like there's too much sugar in some of the offerings and some things about the menu that we worked diligently to improve. And we always had a legendary service. And we worked to enhance that over time. And then we had a business model that needed to be retooled.

Adam: If it ain't broke, don't fix it.

James: Right. But all the things that need fixing you, you've definitely got to get after.

Adam: Absolutely. And that was what you were focused on. And you mentioned a couple of times in our conversation, the word transformation. How can anyone drive transformation? Whether they're transforming the company they're leading, or whether they're trying to transform their own lives.

James: I'm a huge proponent of, I live by, kind of, 100-day plans. And I take, kind of, bite-sized chunks of activity, you know, with a focused goal in front of me. And I think that also applies to companies. So when I started at Jamba, we had, you know, three to five items that we knew we needed to address. We put it in a structured plan and we focused relentlessly on those three to five items with a detailed action plan over a series of, you know, 100-day initiatives. And I do that personally today. Whether it's with my health or anything. But I learned early on to have a plan. And this is more on the individual basis, most people don't have a written plan for their lives or their activity or even any direction. And to the extent that you write things down and you look at them, it actually subconsciously kind of pulls you towards that goal. And that's something that I've learned. And the thing that I've learned further today is, I actually have, I actually do, as I've gotten older, I've got daily plans that kind of build-up. And I do my sprints now. And monthly, you know, sprints are chunks of work and use that to kind of build towards the bigger plan. But those would be a couple of lessons. What I tell young people often is, have a written plan, even if it's just three or five bullet points. So before I was CEO, I walked around for five or six years, with that written down as an ambition and some of the steps that I thought I'd take to get to that place and I do some version of those things.

Adam: I had James Worthy, the Big James, on the podcast. Whether you're a Celtics fan, you're a Warriors fan, I'm a Lakers fan, somehow, we've been able to make it through this conversation without any form of violence, which has been amazing. But James Worthy, when I had him on, I asked him, “What can anyone do to become more successful personally and professionally?”. I will ask you that. But before I do, what James Worthy said is to write it down. Write it down. And that's great advice. That's the advice you just shared. So to anyone listening, write it down. James, what can anyone listening do to become more successful personally and professionally?

James: I think the main message that I leave your entire audience with is, you know, where you and I started, I think we all have the capacity to learn and to grow. And if you pick a topic that you're passionate about, and you're willing to put in the time, you can build capabilities that will make you a stronger leader, a stronger mom or dad, or just better in your community. But pick things that you're passionate about, spend the time to become expert at those things and those things will yield really positive benefits. But you know, back to the Great James’ words, write it down. And then get after it because there's something about writing things down that kind of forces the subconscious to focus on solving those issues. It ends up being like magic.

Adam: Magic James Worthy and James White. James, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

James: Adam, thank you. This was a great pleasure and I hope we get a chance to do it again.

Adam: The pleasure was mine.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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