Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: MLB Manager Joe Maddon
I recently interviewed Joe Maddon on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:
Adam: Our guest today is a three-time Major League Baseball Manager of the Year and a two-time World Series Champion. Joe Maddon has spent more than 40 years coaching baseball. And in one of those years, he led the Chicago Cubs team that reversed the curse, winning their first World Series since 1908. Joe is also the author of the new book, The Book of Joe: Trying Not to Suck at Baseball and Life. Joe, thank you for joining us.
Joe: Thanks for having me on. I really appreciate it. I didn't realize you're such strong ties to Southern California. It's great to hear your stories.
Adam: It was fun chatting off the air and I’m looking forward to chatting on the air. You broke into baseball as a catcher playing four seasons of minor league ball in the Angel system before coming to the realization that your future wasn't going to be as a major league baseball player. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What experiences and lessons were most instrumental to shaping your worldview and shaping the trajectory of your success?
Joe: Well, honestly, it's because of the struggle I've been through. I've talked to my kids about this, everyone, to phrase it, but I'm so grateful that I had a hard time getting to where I'm at right now. It was easily denied a lot, a lot of setbacks involved. But I never lost faith in my abilities, and I always thought it was going to happen as a minor league player. I was not drafted. I was an undrafted free agent signed out of the NBC tournament in Wichita, Kansas in 1975. That’s no money to sign. Zero. So that's about the bottom of the barrel when it comes to future potential major league managers I think, who went to the minor leagues and played a little bit set behind Stan Clyburn primarily as a catcher and some others. I was the backup. I was Crashed Davis before it Crash Davis became popular. So as I moved all the way through it, your dreams are fractured, you're denied. But you know, this is what you want to do. And I knew it wasn't going to happen as a player. Obviously, I even had one of the best scouts that ever lived, the elite Christopher who got a revered and what take gives up to me during batting practice in Visalia. And he asked me, “When are you going to stop playing and start coaching?” I'm 23. And he asked me that question so that other people would see it in advance, but fortunately, I didn't bite it. And I knew by the time I was 26-27, I needed to go a different route. Thus, I became a minor league manager and a scout at Idaho Falls and Arizona, Colorado, Utah, New Mexico.
Adam: And so much of it is being willing to listen to others and being willing to accept feedback. I love that. Literally, the first chapter of your book kicks off with this great story about your greatest mentor in baseball, Bob Lou, and how your life and your career was impacted by that relationship. Can you share with listeners how mentorship has impacted you and what your best tips are on the topic of mentorship?
Joe: No question. Baba Lou was a difference-maker for me. He was in the big leagues as a coach and came back to the minor leagues, and I was kind of running the minor leagues at that time. And the hitting coach, I thought, was pretty hot. You know, I thought I knew my way around, whatever. And then Baba Lou came back and started challenging me on everything. And we were so tight that we could argue, like husband and wife and he was like, shoot 30 years older than me. But it was that close. It was that profound. This is Baba Lou. And this is ahead of his time or because I read it since but one of the great lines that I've read is I can't teach you anything, I can only make you think that's really what a mentor would do. And Bob Lou would always say to me, just trying to make you think a little bit. And that's true. I mean, we're going to teach ourselves. I mean, it really comes down to what we got to teach ourselves. But you have to have the right thoughts in order to teach yourself and that's what a mentor does. He or she does, she promotes thought. He puts different ideas, thoughts in your head that challenges you to get to another level of yourself or thinking wherever you want to call it. So Baba Lou, every day would challenge me with something and contradict not just to contradict, because he thought I was wrong. And I thought it was right. But he caused me to think and think and think about the game and how to teach the game. And that's it. I mean, I think a real mentor is a cause of thought, someone that really promotes thought. And if you can be surrounded by people like that, that, you know, you might say you may get upset, but don't take it the wrong way this person's there to try to help. I think in today's world, sometimes kids turn that off because they don't like me, this person doesn't like me, or this person's angry with me, no, this person is trying to point you in the right direction. So I really think the ability to make me think more deeply was probably his greatest asset.
Adam: So often we think of mentorship as having someone in your life who can tell you exactly what to do, where to go next. But that isn't the way to do it. It's how you described it. It's not telling someone what to do, it's teaching someone how to think it's providing someone with a tool so that when you're not there, they can make the decision. Without your help. It's empowering someone to be able to make the right move. And if your mentor tells you to do this, you might do it. But you're not going to have ownership of that decision. And you might do it, you might not do it, you might do it half-heartedly. But if you do it with full ownership, you're going to get it done, it's going to be yours,
Joe: It's going to be yours, that's really good. And ownership is another big word. I'm so into that as a coach, as a manager. I don't tell people what to do, I don't think hardly ever. My goal is to again, you empower them, you give them direction, you give them something to be in charge of, then you monitor it. I mean, I'm not there to tell you what to do. If I'm working for you, and want you to tell me what you want me to do. And pretty much out of the way unless I am getting totally off track, then you might have to pull me in. Listen, I noticed this, you might want to consider this instead. But that's really what leadership is all about. That's what teaching is all about. There's an empowerment moment, this is yours, go get them. And you're there to answer questions. And you're there to be heads-up in case it gets off track a little bit. And that's how I view it. That's how I coach. That's how I manage. I put people in charge of things. I'm there to help them. I have definite absolute viewpoints and thoughts and methods of doing things. But I'm not going to interfere. Unless I absolutely believe I have to.
Adam: And you've been leading teams for more than four decades. All kinds of teams, all kinds of individuals. In your experience, what are the key characteristics of a great leader? And what can anyone do to become a better leader?
Joe: Listen. Listening, I think the listening skill is the most important skill any of us can have, especially as a teacher, you have to listen to whoever you're speaking with, don't walk over conversations, ask questions. Listen, we all try to attempt to cut people off and incorporate our thoughts too. So I think listening is probably the number one asset for me, as a coach, as a teacher that I respect and listen to whomever I'm working with flexibility. Be flexible, people that are so set in their ways that we cannot be influenced to try to do something differently. It's hard to lead from that perspective, you might get a false follower, but you're not going to get a true follower. People that, you know may be fearful of something are going to follow or just pander along because they got to, but you really don't have them. You don't have them on your side. So you have to be flexible. And in order to really be a great leader and not be so caught up in like the static method, which eventually it's gonna get repelled it is. I'm really big on that too. But the leadership component to me that would be the two most basic things is flexibility and great listening skills.
Adam: An early guest on this podcast played for you about 30 years ago when you were coaching in the Angels minor league system and I asked him, “What makes Joe Maddon a great leader?”. And the guest was Victor Rojas, who, at the time, was the Angels TV broadcaster. Do you have any idea what Victor said?
Joe: I think I was accessible, maybe that I did listen to him and that I paid attention to what he was saying.
Adam: Yeah, he said that. And he said a few things. And they ultimately boiled down to your ability to communicate. And I wonder if you could share with listeners, in your experience, what are the keys to being a great communicator, and what can anyone do to become a great communicator?
Joe: Be aware of building relationships. You have to build relationships that communicate, you have to build relationships to lead, you have to take interest in whomever you're there to lead. So it starts by building relationships, conversation, back and forth and you listen. That starts with building relationships and then when you do that, the glue of anything that exists is trust. So once you build the relationship now you could actually develop trust between one another. That is vital to the next step where you could actually exchange ideas. You can't really exchange ideas in a matter where there's no pushback or blowback. Unless I know you, and you know me, that we trust one another. Now, I can tell you, without hesitation, openly with pure honesty, this is what I think, without worrying about offending you, or hurting you or being wrong to you. Those are my three basic principles because that leads to the fourth and maybe the most important thing, constructive criticism can flow back and forth. But if you don't have relationships, you don't have trust, you don't really have open exchange of ideas, you'll never get to the point to really get something done. And that would be where you could actually be constructively critical. Every place I've gone, I consciously am aware of doing that when I walk in the door, and then it becomes more organic. I think sometimes, I'm an organic guy, sometimes it has to be inorganic, in order to get things rolling. And when I went to the Cubs, that’s exactly how I did it. When I went to the Angels again, exactly how I did it. When I went through the race, I kind of knew it. But all my thoughts and my theories were kind of cemented there. So that I can eventually tell you exactly what I just said. Because I knew consciously I did that with the Cubs. And again with the Angels.
Adam: What did you do? And how specifically can leaders build trust?
Joe: You build by empowerment, I think just specifically by whatever you've asked this person to do. You let them do it, you permit them to go out and make their mistakes, do their job, prove their work ethic, whatever you want to call it. But you have to give them leeway, you have to give them the opportunity to show that what they're saying to you is what they're actually doing. And then probably more importantly, that what I'm saying to them I follow up on because now they can trust me. I've always told my guys, my coaches, you have my trust, I have to earn yours. That's always been a method I've worked from. So it's a combination. I like to start with that. I like to start with whomever I'm working with and like totally trust, you know, I have to earn yours in return. That's how I pretty much start conversations with new employees.
Adam: I love it. Staying true to your word, giving leeway. Something that I noticed, no matter how poorly the Angels played, and the Angels, unfortunately, didn't play the best of baseball while you were the manager, you were extremely positive after every game, win or loss. And you never criticize the players in the press. You always looked for the positive things to point out, you're continually praising players even when a pitcher had a terrible outing, you would point to the positive. And that's something that whether you're leading a baseball team or leading in any other context, we can all learn from.
Joe: Grace publicly, criticize privately. Yeah, I really believe in that. There's no reason to, most of the time. This is my take when you see a leader hypercritical of a group publicly, they're protecting themselves. I really believe that when I've seen managers go up and they're just like shooting guys down and they're being very negative. It's just to deflect blame. It's not me, it's them. It's not about me, I mean, I'm fine. I'm really good at what I do, but everybody else thinks. So I really believe I believe that. So when you praise publicly and criticize privately, there's times that a tough conversation needs to be had. But it's just you and that other person, there should be no one else around. Unless sometimes you do bring one other person in the room just to make sure that this conversation is validated because it doesn't get twisted, sometimes post. So sometimes you want a third party in the room just to make sure that everything is tracked properly. And you need to be pragmatic, and you need to be honest, and everybody needs to be held accountable. So that's it. I mean, it comes down to that. I've heard that I read that years ago. And I've kind of lived by that the price public being criticized privately.
Adam: How important, in your experience, has it been for you to develop leaders within the team, building a culture of leadership within the clubhouse? And do you have specific examples of players who you have turned into leaders and the role that that's played in ultimately elevating the performance of the team?
Joe: This is what professional-like guys like, that I work with the more freedom given, the greater respect and discipline returned. I believe that when you're working with professional athletes, these are men and I give them as much freedom as they can handle. And when you do that, these people will do anything in return because I know as a young player when I work for somebody like that, or with somebody like that, that's what you do, run through the wall for somebody. Somebody's not always telling you what to do, they give you again some wide berth. Now go and make this thing work. So I'm all about that. I'm into that more freedom given greater respect and discipline returned great. I saw Anthony Rizzo morph into you know, you see him when he goes to the Yankee. So everything settled down. Because Anthony's like everybody else, he gets upset with himself, who gets down on himself once in a while, but he also knows the power of conversation. To pick somebody else up, I don't have to go on to have a great influence on the game tonight. And Anthony is also a cancer survivor, which this guy gives so much of his time to hospitals and kids. It's incredible. But Anthony is a perfect example of a guy that I really hit it off with. Even David Ross, David had been around for 100 years. But when David came to the Cubs, he and I had a lot of great conversations. And still in the offseason, he'll check in with me probably this year at some point. And we've already texted back and forth. But guys like that, and they love the idea of freedom. They love the idea of being treated like a man and not being told or lecture to all the time, the best way I can describe it. So that's one premise. Here it is. I do something I call the elite bulls. The lead bulls are born from a James Missioner book that I read in Centennial where the Indians were very creative in the way they got buffalo meat, buffalo hides, just to live, food, clothing, and shelter where they would run the lead bull to a cliff. And everybody else would fall. And I'm not trying to lead these guys to a cliff. But the point is if you get the head players running in the right direction, and they're on board, everybody else in that room is going to follow. I totally believe in that. So it's not like you're gonna pander to anybody. It's not a pantry, and it's not ingratiating. It's a common philosophical goal that we have. And you get grownups that are willing to lead a room, you need grownups in your room. And these are the things I talk about with my coaches all the time.
Adam: Anthony Rizzo, David Ross, two examples of players who made your job easier. Over the years, I would imagine you had many players who are on the opposite end of the spectrum, very difficult to manage challenges in the clubhouse. How did you deal with problem employees? And what advice do you have for the leaders on how to deal with the more challenging members of the workforce?
Joe: Don't let it fester. Do not let it fester. And don't think it's gonna go away. That requires one-on-one, immediately. I think too many times I've seen people in leadership roles run away from the tough conversation, a difficult conversation, it's got to be done right now. If there's more than one, get them all done today, I absolutely firmly totally believe in that. And if it is, legitimately a cancer, it's got to be gone. Because one person could tear down the entire fabric of an organization what you're trying to accomplish. It's just true. And you know when somebody has gone sideways on you, everybody does, not just you. And everybody's watching to see how you react to this and how you deal with this. Because at the end of the day, if you do not back up everything you had said to everybody else, and how you believe this play should be properly run and everybody's attitude should be now this is going to work and you permit one, just one to challenge you. And take this in the wrong direction. You really stand a chance, a good chance of losing the rest of the room. So it's got to be attacked immediately. Do not sugarcoat this renders this line about compassion. Honesty without compassion equals cruelty, right? But there's times I can't even worry about that. This is a time when I can't worry about that because of my conversations. I want to believe I'm honest, but I have to know my audience and you can't go over the top. But in situations like this, don't run away from it, because they're going to take not only you down but everybody else around them down. And my concern has always been even like people like secretaries and people that work in front offices. The moment you permit this stuff to fester it all crumbles
Adam: Among modern major managers, no one has been more successful at transforming a team's culture. The raise epitomized losing, never having a winning season in franchise history, and never even had a season where they were competitive. And you come in in your third year, the teams in the World Series, the Cubs known as baseball's lovable losers, a culture literally defined by losing. You come in, in your second season, the team reverses the curse and wins the World Series, for the first time in over 100 years. How did you turn around such deeply losing cultures, and how can leaders transform losing cultures into winning cultures?
Joe: We're gonna go back to the relationship building the trust, etc, that has to be established first, always. Your culture cannot be established, unless we can all get on the same page, it can't. And again, if those that don't want to get on the same page can no longer be there, you have to make sure that you in order to establish the culture that in your vision, if there are those stragglers that choose to not want to come on board, they can't be there, and don't think you're going to change them. Don't think we have all these different wonderful methods and thoughts and you're going to change this person, he's going to come over to our side, don't count on that. You cannot count on that. So you do the relationships to trust the exchange of ideas, the constructive criticism, etc. And then I think the next important thing is really you got to get rid of and that's what we had to do in the race. I talked to some people and they said what's going on, he says there are certain people that we have to get out. If you're because there's a climbing kind of a situation, people are always trying to get on top of other people, just because there's people that are going to denigrate the new leader just because he's new, or she's new. And you got to be cognizant of that. It's just true. It's just a fact. You have to clear the path, get the philosophy out there, get everybody running in the same direction to lead bulls running in the same direction and then be consistent with your message. The message has to be consistent. And it has to be, for me, concise, not complicated, simple, better. All these different little axioms, they have to be present in order to flip a culture. And it's not going to happen overnight, either. You have to be patient, you need small victories, because people have to see that what you've been talking about translates into success somehow. So you have to grind and grind and grind until the small victories begin to occur, and then the bigger victories will follow. And you got to tell you why you gotta play defense a lot, you got to clean yourself a lot. In my situation, my business is playing defensive postgame. tough loss, there comes all the media, and you got to play defense and defend everybody there because a big part of that. For me, as a major league manager, was to play defensive, defend my brood, my players, whatever. And then the moment you start having some of those little successes grow larger than you go on the offensive a little bit more and really espouse the virtues of your group. So there's no one easy clear-cut way to do this. But you have to be clear, your vision has to be clear. It has to be consistent. You can't waver from it. You can be flexible and adjust. But everybody's got to see that we're all held accountable, the same set of policies, rules, whatever you want to call it. And the moment you let it fester in another way the other direction, heads up. That's when it's going to fall apart.
Adam: A lot of great advice and one big takeaway that is universally applicable, regardless of the kind of organization that you're leading. It's not going to happen overnight. Focus on the small victories. One of the earliest guests on this podcast was Doug Conant, who was the leader of Campbell's Soup, a Fortune 500 company. He came in when the company was at the very bottom. And he led an unbelievable turnaround much in the way that you turned around the Rays and then turned around the culture with the Cubs. And he shared some great advice, which is that as a leader, you have three years. The first year. It's the other guy's fault. The second year, you're learning. The third year, you own it. And in your case, it didn't happen overnight. The Rays were still losing the first year. They were still losing the second year. The third year, it was as though it was an overnight success.
Joe: Right. It takes at least 20 years to be an overnight success, right? At least 20, maybe 30. I didn't get my gig until I was 51. My Major League gig was when I was 51 years of age and everybody acts as though you've always had this level of success or acknowledged success. Of course you haven't. I'm in the backfields in Mesa, Arizona. I'm riding buses from Balls to Lethbridge Canada, or from Midland Texas to Beaumont, Texas. That's 950 miles by the way. Very non-sexy stuff. You get passed over for jobs. I've talked about that in the book. There's all these failures that you have to circumvent somehow or get out of. And yeah, it takes a while to be an overnight success, no question.
Adam: And it's really the grind.
Joe: It's all about it.
Adam: Joe, you've always been a different kind of guy. You think differently, you speak differently, you've embraced your different philosophies, rather than shutting your uniqueness. And that's what makes you great. How did you develop the confidence and comfort in your own skin to be the Joe Maddon that everyone knows as this different, unique guy? And how can anyone get to that same place?
Joe: I've done almost every job there is in baseball since 1981. That's true. I have. And I run minor league organizations, I've been hitting coaches, because like I said, I've been a manager. I've been out there on my own a lot. And again, I've had mentors like Bob Clear, and Bob Root, and all these different guys. So you develop what you believe is the right way to do things. And again, while remaining flexible, this is how we're going to do this. This is what I believe in. And it's substantiated through trial and error failures and successes. It's so when something pops up, and I did things that appeared to be somewhat different to certain people. I've already done it before, on field three at geometry Park in Mesa, Arizona, against the Oakland Athletics instructional league team, I've tried it there. So the benefits and the pitfalls of doing this. Okay, so now move the clock. Go to the 2006 raise when I first got there, and I got to Zim. I said, “Zim, what is that play you did with Jeter where he put it to the right side? Runners on first and third, we could not stop this”. And he starts giggling at me. And he tells me about the safety squeeze as an example, or with Jean Mock with a five-man infield the first time I've ever seen it. And then I've been through a lot. I've experienced a lot. I've asked a lot of questions. I've done different things. So we're talking about baseball now. So when situations pop up in a game, most of the time I've gone through that situation at that moment in the past, and it can't tell you exactly where I learned it, whether to do it or not do it from, so I'm very comfortable with my explanation because I have one. And it's not contrived. It's not made up. It's actually been tested at some point somewhere. And furthermore, I mean, growing up in the ‘60s and the ‘70s. I said I was a nonconformist in a conforming society. That's how I thought of myself. I think if you think groupthink all the time, well, run, get away as fast as you possibly can. Because you will always find yourself agreeing with the majority. Wow, that's a dangerous place to be because nobody's doing any thinking here. So I've always had that thought process. I say in the ‘70s when it really blossomed within me that I took notice of that. And then even the Peter Principle, I found out in the early ‘80s, the higher I got up in your organization, the more confident I became. This is my competition. Are you kidding me? These are the people that I've had to be subservient to, then I find out as I get up there, and work alongside of them. Wow, this is not as good as I thought it had been. And then I became more confident. So it's all interconnected. Everything is interconnected. I'm just giving you an idea of how I arrived at this point, a lot of trial and error. A lot of it's just purely, purely work. I've talked to people in baseball and they know this nobody outwork me. In the minor leagues, nobody that I knew, physically or mentally I would throw all the BP I did all the fungos I pick up the machines I've gathered the baseball's a lot of guys have don't get me wrong. I just didn't think I was outworked. All of that adds up. I've done every grunt job there is. And then you become the manager of the 2016 Cubs and your World Series champs, the amount of labor, intensive labor, and thought and failure that goes into that moment. Wow, is incalculable. I mean, how much was involved in that particular moment. So when I talk, I've been through a lot of different based on talking into baseball since that. I've been through a lot so I could speak confidently about almost any question that comes my way.
Adam: Joe, you're talking in the baseball sense, but everything you say is applicable, whether you're a baseball manager or a baseball player or someone who doesn't care about baseball because those principles are universally applicable.
Joe: That was part of the book. I wanted to make sure. The point wasn’t just to write a baseball book, it was a little bit deeper than that. I was hoping for something that compasses personal philosophy or philosophies that can be applied in the business world, academically, somehow, I wanted it to apply to a wider audience. Yeah, it was born of a baseball occupation, but I just don't think in those terms. I know I've read a lot since the mid ’70s. And I'm able to connect the business world with baseball and it is actually the business world too. But it all comes down to people, and dealing with people and working with people, and how to motivate them and how to get the best out of them. And one of my favorite latest new lines, although it's an old line comes from Ernest Hemingway, when asked about how did you write a book, what do you do and he gets, he says, he sits down, it's so then he says to himself, just write one true sentence, the true a sentence that I know. Well, during the pandemic, or during the Black Lives Matter where I had to dress my players a lot. All I tried to do is, say, one true sentence, the truest sentence that I knew, and then follow it with another one. That's probably the best piece of advice I give to anybody.
Adam: I love it. And in your book, you talk about a ton of relationships that you've developed over the years. You talk about a number of players who you've managed over the years, you give a list of players who you consider to be baseball geniuses. The first two names on the list are Shohei Otani and Mike Trout. What are the best lessons that you've learned from your time spent with Shohei Otani and Mike Trout?
Joe: Shohei Otani, while you see what he's doing, obviously, this guy has the strong competitive nature of anybody I've ever met and he does not like to lose. So he's been very successful on an individual basis, but they haven't won there yet. But as a team, I don't know anybody that competes more than Shohei competes every day and in everything that he does. I think it's more noticeable when he pitches, not as noticeable when he hits but when this man pitches, he has such a great feel for the game. Its ability to adjust to what he's seeing adjustments on the fly, what's working, what's not, what am I seeing with this hitter right now? It's very intuitive, and I love it. I love that about showing it. Offensively say what you mean he competes. But I really admire watching him pitch because that's when it really comes through to me, this competitive man with great feel for what he does, absolutely fearless. He's not afraid of making a mistake, ever. He's just out there to win. And I love that Mikey, they’re the same way in a lot of ways. Mike is most hard on himself. Also, this competitive nature that's really off the charts. The thing about Trouty - athletically, he might be the most gifted baseball athlete I've seen on a baseball field. He is really big, he is really fast, he is really strong. And he sees things too. This guy's got a great inner compass or innate feel for the game. So physically just gifted, as well as anybody I've ever met. And then you combine these other ingredients. And Shohei, the sixth or seventh sense of field that he has for the game of baseball. Very few have ever had that.
Adam: You spent several years now around these two people, not just players, but human beings. What are your takeaways on Shohei Otani and Mike Trout as individuals, as human beings?
Joe: Michael cares about everybody. He's always aware that somebody might be a little bit down, he's gonna go over there and pick them up. Regardless if he's normally going well, but there's times he hasn't gone well. He's always aware of his surroundings, and who's around him, and who he needs to pick up. I really respect that, including the manager who came up with the idea of putting a really bear-like arm and paw on your shoulder and asking you a question or maybe just going to reveal a little bit. But he's always there. He's one of the best teammates ever. Shohei, on the other hand, is a great observer. He's a great observer. He sees everything. His communication skills in English have gotten better. Although I know he understands a lot, he's starting to speak the language better. But Shohei I guess it's not unlike what I just described with Michael, he sees everything. Not like he's intentionally he just can't help it. Again, if somebody needs to be picked up. If somebody needs to be picked up by making a mistake behind him, you'll never see him great, but an error behind them never. I guess they both have this wonderful skill, of being aware of their surroundings, and the people that they're there to support. And they're always there to pick them up if it's not going well.
Adam: Great leadership qualities, self-awareness, and a continual focus on not only self-improvement but improving those around them, improving every person in their orbit, not only this deep focus on becoming the best version of themself but helping the team get to that next level. No doubt that's who they are. How can anyone develop a winning mindset?
Joe: A lot of developing a winning mindset is that you can not take no for an answer. There are going to be times you feel defeated or at that moment, you're on the verge of giving up. But you cannot and you have to understand the power of 24 hours. I tell that to the players, my coaches all the time. And of course, we all have bad days. I mean, it's like this, I can't do this. I'm no good at this. Am I going to get better at this? When is this ever going to turn? All I have is bad luck. And you go through this day, that's absolutely horrid. And there's a lot of feeling sorry for yourself, which, if you're that person, stop doing that victim's complex. Find the nearest trash can and throw both of those qualities away, right now. The power of 24 hours, though, when you come back the next morning, that awful day, and it happens often turns into the most glorious day you've ever had. So when you're going through those bad moments, just know it's going to turn. Yeah, you don't quit. The moment you quit, you'll never get that opportunity to turn this around and bring it back to where you want it to be. That's the point where some people, you just never know how close you are to achieving your goals. If you never give yourself that opportunity. So it's about that belief in the power of 24 hours. If you've had a bad day, bad couple moments in a day and you're getting to that desperation point. Just trust the next 24 hours can turn that around completely. If you give it an opportunity, and there's only one way to not quit, you can never quit. You have to believe it's going to turn and eventually it will. It's not all that different from Mike’s philosophy as a manager. Just focus on today's game, after today's game is over focus on tomorrow's game. Don't worry about what happened yesterday, it doesn't help you.
Adam: Joe, what can anyone listening to this conversation do to become more successful personally and professionally?
Joe: Attack it, whatever that is, wherever your passion lies, attack it, and do not permit anybody else that works for you. That's pretty much describing myself. I wanted to be a major league baseball player but it didn't happen, then I wanted to be a major league coach and I wanted to be a major league manager. And my pedigree did not indicate any of those things in my future. But a lot of folks told me, no, you can't do this, you'll never be able to do this. You've been trying and never accept no, you never accept no. But the only way you're going to get to that point where you have this opportunity, you have to continually attack it and keep looking for new thoughts. New veins are sources of information, mentorship, people that might create this new thought within you. All of those things are pertinent in order to eventually arrive at the point where somebody is going to take that chance on somebody. It's somebody's got to take that chance, but you got to give them a reason to do that. Actually, when I got the job with the Angels in 1981, Larry Himes gave me that opportunity. Larry was the newly appointed prime director and scouting director for the angels in 1981. He called me on the eve of Thanksgiving in Boulder, Colorado. I was working in a liquor store. He offered me a job, because he loved the way I worked as a young player, and ‘76-’77 and eighth and the Angels minor league system as a backup catcher. That's what caused the phone call on the eve of Thanksgiving in 1980. He took my job as a scout and a minor league manager in January of 1981. People are watching, you're always being evaluated. And different folks have different methods of evaluation, what they're looking for in an individual, but I'll tell you one thing, people that grind and work hard that appeals to almost everybody.
Adam: Joe, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being part of Thirty Minute Mentors.
Joe: Thank you for having me, Adam. It's a pleasure to be with you.
Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.
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