I recently interviewed Kenny Lofton on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is one of the greatest leadoff hitters in baseball history. As a six-time all-star, four-time Gold Glove winner, and a baseball legend who is producing at a high level in the majors, even at the age of 40. Kenny, thank you for joining us.

Kenny: Thank you. Thanks for having me. I'm glad to be here.

Adam: You grew up in poverty in East Chicago, Indiana. And you were raised by your grandmother- your mom was in high school when you were born. And your grandmother was unemployed because she had glaucoma. She was eligible for welfare but refused to go on it. You grew up in a very unique circumstance. Can you take listeners back to those days back to your early days? How did your upbringing shape your worldview and the trajectory of your success?

Kenny: I mean, all I can say is that my upbringing, it kind of built the foundation to who I am today. For me, I grew up in poverty, I grew up in a neighborhood where it was drugs, shooting, killing, no gains, and, and all of that and I grew up with, like I said, I grew up my grandmother who was blind, she had glaucoma, but just understanding her values and what she taught me growing up, and I felt like if she could be able to accomplish what she accomplished, being blind, me accomplishing anything in life was pretty much easy. Watching her on a daily basis, you know, dealing with this, so for me to see her having one of her senses, you know, when they say you have your senses, one of her senses was taken away. But she found out how powerful the other senses of who she is. And part of her life became stronger. And I saw that and that's kind of how I built my foundation of who I am. By just watching her.

Adam: Your grandmother was clearly a great mentor to you. You've had a lot of mentors along the way throughout your career in baseball, you played basketball in high school, you played basketball in college, you played for Lute Olson, and I want to ask you about your time playing at the University of Arizona, you were on a team that made it to the Final Four, you backed up Steve Kerr, you were a starter on a team that made it to the Sweet 16. What were your favorite memories and best lessons from your time playing ball at the University of Arizona,

Kenny: You know, being from where I grew up, and then going on the other side of the country from the Midwest to the west and, and having a coach like a ludos in there he was- I'll say it this way- he was a mentor. He was a coach, he was a father figure to us. And I think he taught us a lot about life. We talk a lot about the game of basketball, discipline, on and off the court. And I think just a young man's- myself coming in at 18 years old, you know, trying to and all by myself. And just having someone who was as structured as he was kind of also helped me build, again, a foundation of structure doing things the right way. And when you work hard in practice, and when you practice, you know the right way, things will pay off in a game and he was just again, he was a teacher who always told people he was a teacher of the game. And when you have a coach who's a teacher to gain every aspect that goes right or wrong, you will make a comment about it. And that's what you've learned. This is what you do to make a point to go right, this is what you want to do that is going to go wrong. And he had that mindset on an everyday basis of teaching young kids the game of you know, game of basketball.

Adam: You played with Steve Kerr, you played with Sean Elliott, you played with a number of teammates who went on to become players in the NBA. Any memories from your time with Steve Kerr? Did you have any sense that he'd become a great head coach in the NBA?

Kenny: Actually, I did. Because when we play it, Steve said, you know because again, the one thing that I've learned when I was in Arizona, you know, people didn't understand why Luke is a great coach because he instilled in us, again, like I said, discipline, but Steve understood what, what coaches were looking for on the floor. So he felt like he didn't really need to call timeout all the time because he felt like, you know his mindset, the way he approached the game was on the floor with Steve. So you know, Steve was the point guard, he was a leader of the, on the court. And I think Luke put his, pretty much, his right hand on the court basically saying Steve knows it. And toward the end of the game, we had to set up a play or whatever, Coach pretty much had always timeouts without because we didn't have to call you know, we knew how to settle each other down. We need to set a certain play that we had to call if these got a little disarray. We knew what play we needed to call without the coach column, the time of the setup that play, the only time plays we set up with like on the Audubon's play after a timeout or something but if the game got kind of out of hand, Steve knew exactly what to call. And that's pretty much how we just kind of stuck in it, you know, stuck in and I'm going with it that way.

Adam: Your junior year of college you decide to try out for the U of A baseball team. And over the course of your entire college baseball career, you played in five games and had one at-bat. And the scouting report on you was that you had a hitch in your swing and you looked lost in the field and on the base pass. A very different Kenny Lofton that anyone who watched you over the course of your major league career would think of but a scout on the Astros who saw you play during the scrimmage was blown away by your speed and buyer potential and you're drafted by the Astros and you were selected essentially as a project which is not uncommon among draft picks. You often have teams who select players who are extremely raw but have a lot of upside. The majority of the time those players fizzle out in the minors in your case you became a superstar. How did you go from Kenny Lofton prospect to Kenny Lofton major league player?

Kenny: Well, I mean people don't understand that when I went to college, I played basketball. My freshman year, my sophomore year, and my junior year. So it was three years where I was not focusing at all on baseball. So for me to come out after three years, you know, it takes time, you know, again, for a guy who hasn't swung a bat or thrown to play softball with the baseball team, or let me with the basketball team out of different little events we do but for me to go out and being able to play, you know, to play baseball and which I haven't, I haven't done in three years. So that's almost like you're telling a player, you know, just say a baseball player, you know what, you played basketball in high school. But also you've been playing baseball for three years straight. Now go out there and compete on a level or college level basketball. You can't. It takes time. So I think that Chris, who, who felt like, you know what, I had the tools. But again, he even said, he said, no, you ain't played in three years. He said a normal scout would have thought like, wait a minute, this guy hasn't been on a dime three years. So he's going to be a little rusty. He felt like this was a project because, again, certain things you couldn't teach always know how to but when I can read, and I had the instinct of going after the bond outcome, maybe I didn't take the right route at the time. But again, the instincts were there. I got the great jumps. I just didn't take the right route. But again, that was all about, again, it was all about practicing. It's all about going out there doing it on a repetitive basis. I didn't have that for three years. So I just felt like if I had that opportunity, knowing me as an athlete, knowing how I put everything out there when I go out and when I do something, I put it all out there on the table. That's what I do. And knowing how I am as an athlete, I knew that was all I needed was time. And I'm glad that that god to goodness that scout, you know, felt like, you know what? The ability was there. But again, he also felt like all I needed was time. And you know, it worked out for me;

Adam: Kenny, I love it. And I think that there are a lot of great lessons that are applicable to leaders in all industries. Look beyond the surface. Don't just look at whatever the surface level statistics are if you're talking about a baseball player, but if you're leading an organization, don't just look at the surface level statistics that are on a resume, dive deeper. Do your research. In your case, doing a little bit of research one would see that this is a guy who's incredibly talented, but hasn't played ball for three years. And that explains why he has a hitch in his swing. Take a chance on talented people who are willing to put the work in, eager to put the work in. And it may not pay off all the time. But when it does, it will pay off in a big way. And in your first season in the minor leagues, it didn't quite pay off, you had a .214 batting average at .286 on-base percentage, a .273 slugging percentage. For listeners who don't know a lot about baseball, those numbers are not very good. But you were-

Kenny: Wait a minute, wait a minute, wait, okay. In the day game, that's pretty good. .214. Right now you get $2 million.

Adam: Kenny, I can't, I'm not gonna do the math in my head to figure out the OBS to do 286 plus 273. But what I can tell you is that for listeners who are not big baseball fans, those are not numbers that you're going to look at and say, this player is going to be a six-time All-Star yet, you were able to power through that tough season and other tough moments along the way, as you're making it to the majors. I wanted to ask you if you could share with listeners, how you were able to navigate the difficult moments, and what advice you have on how anyone can make it through the tough times they face in their careers?

Kenny: Well, for me, you know, start off in the minor leagues, I knew I was wrong. I knew I hadn't played. So I mean, I always say, you know what? I'm not an optimist. I'm a realist. Again, I keep it real. You know, you can be optimistic about if a guy's going to do well, you're not going to do well. No, you don't put it in that category. You put what's out in front of you, you see what's going on. I knew again, I knew my ability, I kept it real, I haven't played. So I think that's where for me as a player, I knew my limitations. I knew what I hadn't done in years. So I knew it was going to take time. But other people didn't look at it that way. A lot of times, a lot of these things, put investments in these guys, whatever. And they say, oh, yeah, he's to be at this level, by this time, or whatever. I knew that. But again, I knew me, I knew that I just needed time underneath my belt. Because I felt like I am an athlete, I made adjustments. I know, I was good in high school, because I played every day. So I knew once I got on that every day on a consistent basis, you know, but they didn't see that. So, you know, for them to be able to see that part of it. You know what I mean? But knowing that he's a good player, he's going to be that guy we need in the long run. But a lot of men think that way. They thought you know what, look at his average, like what he's doing. But like you said earlier, I was wrong. I haven't paid in three years, if they would have kept looking in that for the first two or three years they would assault. But again, I think I did it sooner than that. But again, once I started to play more, I got better.

Adam: And Kenny, I think a key message that you're sharing is the importance of believing in yourself. No matter what your numbers are. If you know you can do it, even if your performance isn't reflecting it. Believe in yourself. If others aren't believing in you, that's still not a reason to doubt that you have the ability to pull it off. And you clearly did when you joined the Indians. That was a team that no one believed in. And for good reason. The Indians, I'm gonna throw some more statistics out at listeners from 1960 to 1993. The Cleveland Indians - now known as the Guardians - never finished above third and only finished in third once and that was in 1968, which was before I was born. So Kenny, when you joined the Indians in 1992, you were part of a team that turned a deeply losing culture into not only a winning culture but one of the best teams in baseball for almost a decade. In your experience, what are the keys to turning around a losing culture? And what are the keys to building and sustaining a winning culture?

Kenny: That turned up a team to a winning culture? It’s the talent. First of all is the talent and is the mindset that each individual has to have going forward saying, hey, you know what? Knowing the talent that you have out there and knowing the mindset that each individual player has to try to win and knowing that you know what, you always have to change and you have to do something different. And I felt like the teams that we had there, we felt like we had to do something different. And we all took that same mindset. And I think just within all of the players that we had there, we had the same mindset is to change the culture and try to win. We all wanted to win. And that was the mindset we had. And we kept filling, like, everybody come on talking about this mistake by the lake, we just want to change that mindset. You know, the team always loses that, you know what, we got to change that. And it's all about the players mindset in his thinking that you can win thinking that you can change this culture of losing to something different. And I think we all sat down, and we had that same, same mindset, and it turned it around.

Adam: How was that mindset instilled? And how can anyone develop a winning mindset?

Kenny: You know, each and everyone's different. Everyone doesn't have that same mindset. Everyone doesn't have that same drive and determination. Some people just, again, you just don't have it. But how do you, you can kind of work toward it. But it kind of always, they say it's in your DNA, it’s in your DNA, you can try to help that. But again, when you have success, that helps that a little bit. If you don't have success, you’ve got to figure out ways to work around it. But again, I think learning and understanding we all had a mindset that we knew our strengths, and we took advantage of it. And that's what we did as a team. And the mindset is that don't try to be something you're not and I think that's when a lot of guys fail.

Adam: Yeah, great point. And in your case, you knew what you're, you're a great leadoff hitter. You are unstoppable on the basis you didn't go up there and try to become Jim Tomi or Albert Bell or Manny Ramirez. You know your game and every team needs a leadoff hitter, you can't win without one, you can't win by having nine guys in the lineup who do the exact same thing.

Kenny: Exactly. I just felt that and that's where we sat down. We all knew our roles. When you know your role as a player and each individual player on that team knows their role- that's how you win because everyone you have is almost like you have it's like a well fine machine. You know, all the pieces fit for that thing to roll in a good fashion and we felt like I was laid off. I did my job. Omar's behind me called us by Edgar Albert told me and Eddie Mary, we all knew our role. So we knew that and that thing. That's why it works. Because myself and Omar weren't trying to be Carlos and Albert, and vice versa. So that's why it worked.

Adam: A lot of the names that you mentioned are very strong personalities. Not only great baseball players but strong individuals. Can you talk about how that clubhouse came together? How can leaders most effectively manage teams with strong personalities?

Kenny: Um, well the bottom line is when you use I think that word clubhouse is overrated. What I mean by that is that he's good for the clubhouse. Being in the clubhouse ain't gonna put stats on the field between a clubhouse gonna go put run scored on the board. So our Clubhouse was something that you can never talk about, really. It was out of control, actually. And that's when people make it seem like a clubhouse out to be a certain way. I mean, okay, I'll give you two examples. I went to the Atlanta Braves and the Cleveland Indians. It was like two opposites, Easter and West. The Atlanta Braves clubhouse was quiet, you know, not music going on. Nothing. It would just be straight and narrow to the point. Ours would like Animal House. We have guys fighting in there, wrestling, Braunstone, all the clubs, you know, you know making loud music going on. It was but then around 7:20- no 6:15, 6:20. Quiet music started but it was like uh, people can say you know before a certain time you like, man. These guys are supposed to be playing a game. And then all of a sudden it just kind of went quiet. That was the focus part that came in that people didn't get. But again, we performed on the field. I mean, again, the game was about on the field. The game wasn't about the class. You know, people can have it. Like I say, I play with Barry Bonds. And, Jeff Kent, you know, people like that. That clubhouse was, you know, it was not because those two were just kind of like, bumping heads, they didn't get along, it didn't matter. But when the guy was on the field, it didn't matter what happened in the clubhouse, you perform, you do your job on the field, Barry and Jeff got along on the field because they knew what the ultimate goal was. The ultimate goal was to win. After the game was over, you know, they don't have to talk to people. But during the game, they did talk about what they needed to do. You're doing the game. That's what you want. But people don't understand, you know, it's just the dynamics of when you're on the field, not in the clubhouse. It’s overrated.

Adam: You mentioned a couple of teams you played for other than the Indians, you played for the Indians in 10 of your 17 seasons. But you also played for 10 other major league teams. Who are the best managers that you played for? And what do you believe are the key characteristics of a great manager and a great leader?

Kenny: Well, I mean, I can start off with Mike Hargrove. Mike Hargrove was a great manager. And he was a good manager, the fact that he, when you talked about that, a lot of different personalities, I have to, um, always tip my hat to him, because he had to learn how to control it, understand it, but pretty much let things you know, just let it go. Let things be when it needs to, you know, when it needs to. Because, you know, you can't sit upright and talk about Manny and Tavares and myself and Tommy and you know, all these guys with different personalities, just let them be on again, that's in the clubhouse. But on the field, you manage the game two ways- post manage, but off the field, let guys be who they are. Because he always says that, when you're off the field, you know, you don't have to be friends. When you're on the field, that manager is there to take this lump of assets he has, put it together, and try to make the best of it. You know, and guys are pretty much at the clubhouse from 2:00 to 10:30 or 11:00. That's the second home. So you don't want to kind of control these guys constantly when it's considered your second home. But I think the best manager I can say I played with was Dusty Baker, I can say that without a doubt. I think it was just his camaraderie with all the players. And he was a player's manager, he treated everybody with respect, but let the veterans have their space. But he also let them know when something needs to be said, you'll say it. So that's a good thing about him and he became your friend. You know, and but in a good way, you know, like, I'll just have the perfect example. I'm going to always tell this story, you know, David Bale, you know, and Dusty, they were good friends, you know, I mean, they became good friends, because Dusty was sitting down with pretty much all the players and getting to know you as a man. And he knew David, David Bell loves catfish. So when we go to a different city, to go to lunch, or whatever, David comes, you know, to the clubhouse, and there was a fish sandwich or whatever in his locker because Dusty knew David Bell likes fish. So he'll have it in his locker. That's the kind of stuff that Dusty did and guys respected him for that. And you and your own city, he'll say, hey, you know what you go and you go, you know, your hometown, you want a day off, you know what, give me two or three days before then, you know, in a role work, work, work, and then I'll give you a day off, in that sense, kind of your family's there and all that or whatever. That's what Dusty did. And that's what made him special to a lot of players because he got to know.

Adam: And leaders who are leading in any context can learn from that. To be a great leader isn't about leading through fear, leading through intimidation. It's leading through kindness, leading through sensitivity. Dusty Baker took the time to get to know his players and took the time to get to know David Bell as an individual, not just David Bella as a baseball player. And by connecting with him, by understanding who he was, what he liked, what he cared about. It not only made a difference in terms of his relationship with David Bell but in terms of his relationship with you and his relationship with the rest of the clubhouse when you show that you care about one person, it shows everyone else just how much you care about people, which is so essential to being a great leader.

Kenny: He was transparent. He was straightforward. He was honest, if you were wrong, you know, he’d kick you in the butt. If you were right here a pat on the back. And that's how Dusty was. Everybody respected that. I don't care who you were, you know, if you were the Barry Bonds of the team, or you were a small rookie on the team, he didn't care he treated you guys the same. And like you said, when you did good, he patted you. But you did bad he, he has something to say.

Adam: Accountability and kindness go hand in hand. For listeners who are not hardcore baseball fans, like myself or former baseball players like you, baseball's a 162 game season, and that's just the regular season. You play in many, many postseason games. And as the leadoff hitter and center fielder, you are the spark plug of the team responsible for bringing energy on and off the field, day in and day out. Doing that over a long season is a challenge. How did you motivate yourself on the days that you didn't feel motivated? And what are your best tips on the topic of motivation?

Kenny: Again, first of all, knowing my job, knowing what I like to do and I enjoyed my job, I enjoyed it. I think that's the motivating part for me is I love what I did. I liked what I did. So when it showed on and off the bill because they knew that was something that I didn't mind taking pitches, I didn't mind hitting with two strikes, because to help the team behind me- I didn't mind that. I was okay with that because I was a team player. So I was motivated, because I wanted to be the piece of the puzzle, to get the team to that next level. And that's what I tried to do on an everyday basis. Some days, I didn't have it. But again, you know, I always had a quote from Sandy Alomar, he always said, Kenny, when you go, we go. And that's the mindset that I took every day, even though I didn't have it. But again, I felt like, if I didn't do it on offense I did on defense. If I didn't do one of those two, I did it to motivate guys to, you know, to get it going if they didn't have it. But that was part of my job. And I enjoyed that. But I think that's the motivating part for me is that you have to love what you do. And when you love it, it's gonna show because that's how you perform. And that's how you go out there. And, and you pretty much live it, you know, you almost feel like I go out and tell guys, you got to talk and talk and walk the walk. And I felt like I was able to talk the talk and walk the walk because I talked about what I wanted to do. And I went out there and did it. I have not been successful every time. But they saw the preparation and the effort I put out there to be successful. I wanted to motivate myself because I knew for me it helped other guys, some of the guys didn't have the spirit and I had it. But again, if I showed them and it's almost like you live you lead by example. So I wanted to rub off on some of the other guys and I think I did on the teams I played with

Adam: It’s so important to lead by example. You chose to pursue a career that you are passionate about because when you love what you're doing, when you're doing something that you really enjoy, whether it's playing baseball, or whether it's doing any other kind of job, it makes it so much easier every day to get up and to show up. If you're showing up for a job that doesn't really mean a whole lot to you it feels like work. But when you're working in a role that doesn't feel like work when you're working in a job. That's fun. It doesn't feel like a job. And I know right now you're working on a new business that I don't know if it feels like a business for you. I know it's a lot of fun for you. It's a new NFT business called Cinder Blocks. What should listeners understand about NFTs and about the future of the NFT ecosystem?

Kenny: Well, I just try to explain it this way. The NFT, I mean, is that you know what the definition is of non-fungible tokens. And it's a digital asset that has value. But you have to incorporate it into the blockchain. And what it is, is that people have things of value. And you want to take advantage of that. And because right now, this just was all digital. This is your phone, if you don't, if you don't have your phone in your hand, you will lose it. You know, it wasn't my fault. I gotta have my phone because that's how this world works- digitally. So I think understanding the value of NFT's is something that, you know, it's hard to do. I'm not saying it's hard to explain but it's a digital asset, you know, like an asset you have, you know, like some people want to do cards and artwork or whatever. One thing I try to explain to people about NFT's, I'll use an example about an artwork, piece of art, you can sell a piece of art to the next guy. And pretty much that's, that's it. But in the NFT digital space, you can sell an NFT. And once you sell that you can make money in perpetuity of your own intellectual property forever. And the reason why I started this, because I wanted guys to take a hold of the intellectual property when you play baseball for years, okay, your intellectual property was in someone else's hands, because that's just the way to business then, and now you have a chance to extend your career life, so to speak, in the sport, by keeping your brand and let your brand keep going forever. And NFTs give you an opportunity to do that, you can almost brand yourself in a certain way to where it was extensive. And people always talk about sustainability, this is an opportunity for people to take a hold of intellectual property and what you didn't have before you have a chance to take a hold of that intellectual property now, and monetize it the way you could have when you were playing, but you didn't because, again, you had to go to different companies and they get a split, you know, baseball, get their split, and then you finally get your split. And then this right here, you pretty much own your intellectual property and you can take advantage of it.

Adam: What can anyone listening do to become more successful personally and professionally?

Kenny: It's about the mindset. You have to have that great mindset that you want to be successful. And understanding there's gonna be bumps in the road, you're gonna fail, you know, you can fail, you know, seven out of 10 times in baseball, you fail all the time. So, you know, it's all about learning from your mistakes. Looking at your asset of who you are. I always say that you know your strength, and you understand your weakness. Okay, you take advantage of your strength, but don't let your weakness pull you down. So my strength was speed. And I took advantage of that, even though I didn't have the power. But I made sure that my speed was going to overlook that power. And make that be the forefront of who I am. Know who you are. And just like, you know, Charlie Manuel said years ago when he talked to us about your game,, know thyself. We've always said know thyself, know who you are. And that's how you succeed is knowing who you are. And again, some people, it’s not in the cards to become a baseball player, but there is something out there for you. But you just have to go out there and look in different directions, whatever that direction is. For who you are. We all have God-given talent, but we don't know what that is. Some people circle, you know, longer than others. But it is there. You just got to find it. And once you find it, you make the best of it.

Adam: Kenny, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Kenny: Well, thank you. Thank you for having me.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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