I recently interviewed Olympic gold medalist Lenny Krayzelburg on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:
Adam: Our guest today is one of the greatest swimmers of all time. Lenny Krayzelburg is a four-time Olympic gold medalist, winning gold medals in 2000 and 2004 as the world’s best backstroke swimmer. Lenny, thank you for joining us.
Lenny: Adam, thank you for having me. I’m excited about our conversation.
Adam: Excited to have you on You grew up in the old Soviet Union in Odessa today the third largest city in Ukraine When you were a teenager you immigrated along with your family to the US Settling here in LA Your story is a classic immigrant story in that you didn’t speak much English Your family didn’t have much money but you could swim. Could you take listeners back to your early days? What early experiences and lessons shaped your worldview and shaped the trajectory of your success?
Lenny: Yeah, as you mentioned, I grew up in Odessa, at that time it was Soviet Union, in a Jewish family. Obviously, a lot of antisemitism in Soviet Union during my lifetime, at least when I was growing up. My dad wanted me to be an athlete, one of the priorities for him. He wanted me to be a soccer player, but when he wanted me to get into sports, I was too young to do soccer. So he got me into swimming and I stuck with swimming and really enjoyed the experience camaraderie being in the sport of swimming. When I was nine years old, started fourth grade, I was selected in a special group of kids that had a potential to be a good swimmer and was put into a well-known, famous Soviet sports system where it’s quite intense in terms of the commitment, the dedication, the training regimens. We’re training five hours a day at nine, 10 years old, in addition to going to school in between two practices. So there was quite a bit of pressure and it was of course challenging. But at the same time, when you grow up in the Soviet system, when you get selected into a program like this, it’s an honor. And there’s a lot of pride associated with that. And my family was very proud of me being in this program. So obviously the commitment to it and sticking with it was really important. And the biggest message that I can take from that experience is at a very young age, I understood that if you wanted to achieve something and if you wanted to be good at something, it’s going to take a lot of work. It’s going to take tremendous commitment. There are no shortcuts. And I really do think that that really molded me and built some of the characteristics of who I am today and helped me along my athletic career for sure as I was eventually getting to the Olympic level. It all started in that very intense environment in the Soviet Union.
Adam: Lenny, I love it and you’re sharing a lot of themes that I’m looking forward to diving into over the course of this conversation. Going back to that moment when you left that system, the system that you knew, really difficult system. You faced discrimination for being Jewish. It was a system with a lot of pressure, but you and your family left it and went to a completely different place. a place where you were a foreigner, you didn’t speak the language, didn’t have much in the way of resources. How did you adapt? What did you learn from that experience?
Lenny: The experience of immigrating from Soviet Union to the US, it’s a challenging one because there’s so many unknowns. You don’t know what tomorrow brings. Obviously, when you’re a teenager, you don’t fully comprehend or understand all the obstacles that are ahead. Your parents do. They’re the ones that are making this tremendous life-changing risk of moving a family to a completely new world without any guarantees. What I learned through this journey, especially settling in in LA and like you mentioned, not knowing the language, not having a lot of resources, my parents had to get jobs. So as a 13, 14 year old, I was pretty much on my own in LA going to school. taking a bus to practices, that I was about an hour away, coming back home late in the evening. It was all kind of on my own. But at the same time, what I realized is that the support and the foundation that I got at home, the love, the family bond that we had was really powerful in order to go through these experiences, go through these processes, getting assimilated in LA, getting assimilated in living in the United States. And leaning onto my parents was really big for me. It was helpful. But also, being independent, it gave my parents a peace of mind that they didn’t really have to worry too much and that I could be on my own in terms of pursuing my own commitments. And I think it really helped to have that strong bond and a lot of positivity and confidence at home.
Lenny: Because again, every day brought new challenges and new obstacles, but that family bond was incredibly powerful.
Adam: You mentioned the role that your parents played and the support, invaluable. Were there any mentors who really transformed you as a swimmer, as a person who helped you get to where you ultimately were able to get to?
Lenny: Yeah, I had mentors along the way, especially I was coming through high school and then college and heading into the games. There were a number of people along that path, most of them coaches. A couple of people that eventually became my friends, but we swam together. They were a little bit older than me when I was still at Santa Monica College. And then the other part of it was also me. I’ve always been a fan following people that have been successful. I read books. I would, well, at that time, I guess it was only books. There was no internet to do research, but I’ve always leaned into learning about people that were successful and what made them successful and trying to apply some of those characteristics in my own life and my own path. But I relied a lot on coaches to help me. And I’ve always had a tremendous respect for authority. And maybe that’s growing up in Soviet Union because that’s just how you had to be. But I know it was valuable and beneficial for me that my path here kind of evolved from community college to USC and then on to the Olympics.
Adam: You bring up something interesting, which is respect for authority, and it speaks to the importance of being coachable. It’s hard to become an elite athlete without being coachable. It’s hard to be elite at anything without being coachable, without not only being open to receiving feedback, receiving advice, receiving coaching, but being eager to becoming better. And the only way you’re going to become better is by receiving the insights and advice from people around you who can help you become better.
Lenny: Oh, absolutely, Adam. I think it’s essential to be successful is to be open to that and bring that openness in every single interaction. Because if you’re not willing to, you’re definitely going to hit a wall and you’re not going to break through that. And I didn’t understand any other way. I didn’t think any other way. I’ll give you an example. I’ve always looked at it 5.45 in the morning. I am getting ready to jump in the pool. And I have a coach that’s standing on the pool deck with his notes, workout ready, prepared to coach us. I felt like I had a responsibility and I had to respect him because he did his work to prepare to make me better. So besides the fact that I wanted to obviously get the most out of myself, I felt some type of an obligation that I have to respect someone that wants me to be better. And they put in the work and prepared for me. So that’s the mindset I’ve always taken. And, you know, if you talk to any of my coaches, that was the foundation of my own internal principles. And that’s why they’ve always enjoyed working with me because I was so coachable because of that principle.
Adam: Can you talk more about the mindset that is required to attain greatness and how can anyone develop a winning mindset?
Lenny: Well, in my opinion, winning mindset comes from, first of all, never being satisfied, always seeking to be better. And it’s not about not appreciating the accomplishments, but always understanding that there is a way to continue to be better, that you’ve never actually reached your 100%. And the motivation comes from seeking what’s next, how to be better. That’s the only way. Because otherwise, if you’re comfortable, If you’re satisfied with your results, emotionally, physically, you’re going to start tuning it out. You’re going to start not giving 100%. You’re going to start getting 90% effort, and then it’s going to trickle down. It’s that constant hunger. To me, it’s just so important. It has to be a part of your DNA if you want to achieve greatness. There is no other way. And it’s also understanding the path because the path to greatness or achieving success That path is never a straight line. You’re always going to have the ups and downs and you’re going to have disappointments and challenges along the way. But as long as you keep a bigger picture in mind and as long as you bring that right attitude and thirst to gain knowledge, to look for ways to be better, that thirst is incredibly important.
Adam: Lenny, I love it. So much of a winning mindset comes down to having a growth mindset, comes down to the desire to improve, continually get better. I love what you shared. When you were growing up, you were focused on learning from the very best. There weren’t any podcasts, there weren’t any YouTube videos, there wasn’t an internet. But there were books and there were people around you who you could learn from. And today there are so many resources at our disposal. Something that I share with audiences I speak to when I give keynotes. We all have different styles of learning. How do you learn best? Do you learn best by reading books? Do you learn best by listening to podcasts? Do you learn best by watching YouTube videos? I learn best by doing this, by talking to people who know as much about a given topic as anyone and asking questions and listening. However, you learn best, lean into it, dedicate yourself to it. That’s how you become better. That’s what a winning mindset is all about.
Lenny: Yeah, I agree with you. For me personally, I learn best is by actually asking questions. I’m a big question asker. I love it. I enjoy in every conversation learning something about a person. And when you step back from the conversation, how do I potentially apply that in my own life? I do enjoy podcasts a lot as well. Not as much of a reader in terms of just the motivational stuff or seeking to be better unless it’s a certain topic that I want to learn. But if I’m looking for inspiration in terms of others that have been successful, then I’m looking more like either a conversation or maybe an interview via YouTube or a podcast.
Adam: And Lenny, you bring up an important point, which is the importance of asking questions. in order to really understand and really get better and really improve. It’s not just about listening. It’s about asking and understanding. And if I don’t fully get it, well, how can I get it? By asking questions.
Lenny: Yeah, that’s for me is something that definitely has evolved over time. Especially now I do ask a lot of questions and I want to dig deeper. But even as I was growing up, even when I was competing, but still like a coach would give us a set or we have a training cycle and I would of course do it. But at the same time, I would say, Mark, let’s just talk why we’re doing this. Like explain to me what’s the thinking behind this. So that way, when I’m training, I understand why I’m doing this. So I’m not just going through the motion as a robot, but I’m actually understanding. So I’m connecting mentally to what I’m doing because I see a purpose of that. I understand the purpose of why we’re doing it. It’s so important, especially if we’re talking about athletics, that connection with the coach is essential and having that conversation. it’s essential to be successful. I saw it personally, obviously from my personal experience, because I had those relationships with my coaches, it helped me to be successful. But I also saw my teammates that were closed off and didn’t have that relationships and were afraid to have that conversation or didn’t really care as much for authority of a coach. And when they didn’t have that bond, it reflected on their performances. So I saw it firsthand for years.
Adam: Lenny, everything that you’re sharing is applicable well beyond the world of competitive sports. And so much of it comes down to explaining the why. Leading not through your authority, but leading through your ability to persuade, your ability to connect, your ability to influence.
Lenny: Yeah, it’s so true. You mentioned the word why, leading and explaining to people you lead why. To me, I guess nowadays, being in the role of a CEO of a company and working with a lot of people, without them asking, I have to explain why we’re going to do something. Just because if I was in their place, I would want to know why. So I’m already thinking for it and that’s what I try to do in every conversation is that I’m already leading with why, maybe two steps ahead, but that’s how I would want to be if I was in their position. Because also we talked about purpose and being successful and getting to a certain level. In order to get there, you want to understand the path. You want to understand why you’re doing something in order to get to that path. So that should be an essential part of leadership. And that should be an essential part of anyone that’s trying to pursue going to the next level of whatever path they choose in their life, sports, business, career, any type of career. Raising children. I think raising children is exactly the same thing. It’s also you want to mentor your children. If you have certain expectations or you want something for them, you think it’s important, you explain why you want them to do so. because I think it’s important to ask questions.
Adam: Lenny, you might have ESP because you’ve mentioned several times the path. And that’s a topic that I’ve really been wanting to explore with you. The path to greatness, your path to greatness. How were you able to become the very best? And what advice do you have for anyone listening to this conversation on how they can become the very best at whatever it is that they’re pursuing?
Lenny: Well, I know maybe it sounds really basic, and I’ve learned this when I was on the national team. One of our coaches gave us this really unique perspective. Although I applied it prior to national team, I just didn’t realize it, but he gave this great example that in life, The only person you can be truly honest with is the person that when you’re brushing your teeth, is looking back at you in the mirror. That’s the only person in life that you can be truly honest. And I think if you have that conversation with that person that’s looking back at you in the mirror, in terms of what you want and whether you’re taking every step to accomplish that, I think there’s a lot in that honest conversation on a regular basis that can help you to break through and achieve the success one wants to achieve. I’ve enjoyed those conversations. I enjoy challenges. That’s just for me, part of the purpose that I feel like I have in life is just to look for challenging situations and embrace them and then do the best I can and pretty successful in a lot of them. And sports is one medium that it’s easier to measure success in sports than maybe in other paths of life, but it lessons learned in sports.
Lenny: can be applied to every other walk of life.
Adam: And those are great lessons, something that I share with audiences, which is very similar to what your coach shared with you. No one needs to tell you whether or not you’re reaching your potential. No one needs to tell you whether or not you are making the best of your abilities. All you need is one thing, and that’s a look in the mirror. And it really comes down to intellectual honesty, knowing yourself and being honest with yourself. And if you’re at that place, that’s a very big first step. And if you have the mindset of wanting to be great, that’s a big second step. And a lot of what you shared, the importance of challenging yourself, putting yourself in situations where you’re going to continually get better by pushing your comfort zone, by taking on things that will allow you to get better. What are some of those things that you did over the course of your competitive career that helped you ultimately reach peak performance?
Lenny: For me, it was a lot of times setting a certain goal in terms of in swimming, it’s like there’s a certain time, let’s say you want to swim. So in order to swim that time, you obviously have to train to swim that time. You have to get to a very uncomfortable place physically and mentally, and you have to be able to stay there and you have to keep reaching that uncomfortable place and not be afraid. I think the most important thing is not to be afraid for that discomfort. Because a lot of times we set the limitations on ourselves based on, we think that’s how it’s going to be. So we’re actually afraid to challenge ourselves because we’ve created a narrative. How uncomfortable is that going to be? We actually don’t know it, but we already create it. I think that’s just our human nature. So for me, when I was training and even competing, it was getting to that state of uncomfortable. and trying to visit that state as often as possible in training, so that when I came to competition, my nervous system, it already knew what it felt like. Because if you’ve never visited in practice, it’s impossible to all of a sudden visit it in competition. You need to reach that level of feeling of discomfort or pain, physical, mental stress. You need to do that repetitively in order to then be able to perform at your peak. I give a good example of this. I always talk about this is when I used to train preparing in my training cycles. I love when I came home after my second practice, you know, five hours of training throughout the day. I came home and I would fall on the couch and I would have no strength to get up. I love that feeling. I love that feeling because that was so satisfying to me that knowing that I left everything in the pool, in the gym, I mean, to me, that was my drug. Honestly, that was my drug is like that feeling of satisfaction that you don’t have any strength. It’s such a high.
Adam: I really love that. For those who are like you and have the mindset that every day I want to get to my most uncomfortable place so I can get better and better and better. what you’re sharing really resonates? For a lot of people, they might be listening to what you’re saying and thinking, that sounds great, but how do I take that first step? How do I get out of my comfort zone? What advice would you share for anyone listening on how to push your comfort zone?
Lenny: Well, first of all, define what your goals are. I think that’s the first thing because in order to get to a state of uncomfortable, you need to actually know where you’re going. What’s the end goal? What is the goal that you want to achieve? So it starts with that and then taking actually the first step. I mean, I think the challenge a lot of times is that we are afraid to take a first step because we have created this world or this experience or in our minds that it’s going to be like this or it’s going to feel this way or it’s going to be very uncomfortable or I’m not ready for that without actually experiencing. So I think it’s mentally to work on ourselves to take that first step and not being afraid to do it. I do think that manifesting and thinking about it and visualizing is very important. And I’ve learned that through my personal experiences. You know, as an athlete, I’ve done a lot of more manifestation of visualization in the later part of my life. I do a lot of it right now. Like, I love spending time 30, 45 minutes sometimes just closing my eyes and just envisioning what I want to see, what I’m working towards, what that looks like. I do a lot of that nowadays. And I think it’s important that you emotionally and physically, even if in the state of visualization, you are able to feel it, what it could look like and what it would feel like.
Adam: You mentioned growing up, you faced a lot of pressure. When you were competing for gold medals, did you feel pressure?
Lenny: Yes, I felt the pressure when I was competing for gold medals. But first of all, it was a pressure that I put on myself because I wanted to obviously perform at my peak. Obviously, pressure from the outside. It naturally happens, especially when you are favored to win. But one thing that I have also realized that you’re going to have pressure and it’s inevitable. That’s just part of whatever path you choose. There’s going to be pressure internal and external. But what calmed me down is the confidence that I was prepared. That’s what helped me to deal with pressure. is that I was prepared. And that helped me a lot in these moments. And the other part that helped me cope with pressure was, I guess, taking a step back and realizing that no matter what you’re doing, even if a lot is at stake, it’s a small part of life. And then there’s still family, there are still close friends. That’s important. And it helped me a lot because sometimes what I saw is that people thought that their world revolved around slim. And if they don’t slim this hundred backstroke, or if they don’t get this place, the world is over. No, the world is not over. There’s so much more the world can offer. And I think that’s really important. I think it’s important keeping things in perspective and understanding that if you’re not going to get immediate results right here, right now, that there is more to life. It helped me a lot in my own path.
Adam: You were obviously very driven and motivated for all the reasons we talked about, but how did you motivate yourself on the days that you didn’t feel motivated?
Lenny: Oh, for me, if I’m going to do something, I’m going to do it 100%. Maybe it’s just who I am. Maybe it’s in my DNA. I understood that there are days when you’re not going to be motivated. That’s part of life. You can’t be on 100%. You can’t have this incredible energy and attitude 100% every single day. So I understood there were going to be days like that. But I also looked at How fortunate and grateful I am to be in a position that I can pursue a dream that I was really good at, that I worked very hard at. And I felt like it was an honor and it was a privilege and I didn’t want to waste an opportunity. And I never took that for granted. This was to me, every time I went into the pool, whether I felt good or did not, I never took it for granted. I really appreciated the opportunity and the fact that I was in the position where I was. There’s a lot of people who would want to have physiology, DNA, certain physical attributes, opportunities through life that opened up the way where it grants you a chance to pursue your dream and potentially be the best at it. And to me, that was an honor. And I took this very seriously. I never took it for granted.
Adam: You enjoyed tremendous success over the course of your athletic career, becoming one of the greatest swimmers of all time, winning four Olympic gold medals. But you didn’t win every race. You lost as much, if not more, than you won. You suffered some pretty devastating injuries. You had a lot of setbacks along the way. How did you deal with the setbacks, challenges, and failures that you faced? And what advice do you have for anyone listening to this conversation on how to navigate the setbacks, failures, and obstacles that they face over the course of their lives and their careers?
Lenny: Well, first of all, it starts with understanding that is part of the journey, that you will have setbacks and you’re going to have failures. If you understand that’s part of the journey, then it’s easier to process it when those things happen. The other part that was important to me is to be a student of any experience that I encounter. Because in every disappointment and every challenge, there is something to learn and there is something to hold on to that can make you better next time around. And for me, throughout my injuries, when I was competing, I learned how to focus more on different parts of my swimming or dry land that made me better kicker. or maybe focus more on certain elements of my race that I didn’t maybe give as much attention to. And I was fully healthy. When I swam a race and got beat, I would dissect the race and trying to learn so where the things go wrong. Did I maybe over-swam the first part of the race? Maybe I didn’t take out fast enough. Maybe I should have done it something differently. So it’s all about learning. And I like the process of learning from experience and reflection. So that way, whether it was success, whether it was a disappointment, whether it was an injury, it was trying to figure out what did I learn from it? How do I do it better? And also being in the moment. If this is an injury I have today and I can’t use my arm, what can I do to compensate it so that I can get better in another phase of my preparation? You know, for me, it was almost like a game. Trying to figure out something isn’t working here. Let me try something else. The key here is not to give up, not to get so disappointed as just like, I’m done, I’m not going to do this, or I can’t. The word I can’t, it was never in my dictionary. I don’t think it should be in anyone’s dictionary. I think it’s trying and it’s having a purpose of getting to something ahead of you. That is the most important thing. And then going back to what we spoke about is that, can you look at yourself in the mirror? and say, I’m giving my best, I’ve tried my best, but these are the results. I think as long as you can be fully satisfied with yourself, that you’ve given the effort and you’ve prepared for it and you work on your craft, I think that’s the right way to approach things.
Adam: Lenny, what can anyone listening to this conversation do to become more successful personally and professionally?
Lenny: Well, first of all, I think everyone needs to have a goal or goals in their life. I think it’s really important. Waking up every morning and having a purpose, I think is essential. It starts there. Then you formulate a plan. How do you want to get to that purpose? How do you want to get to that goal? Having a path is really important as well. So, you know, besides How are you going to get there? What steps are you going to take? It’s important. And then visualize. I talk more about this because it is so important to visualize it. Close your eyes and see yourself being where you want to be. And living that almost like in your dreams, but consistently, because I think the power of manifestation and sending that positive energy and vibes is really important. But I think it’s also key that you don’t just visualize it, but then don’t do anything, right? You have to then actually apply and act upon what you’re feeling and what you’re seeing and what you want to experience.
Adam: Lenny, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.
Lenny: Thank you. I appreciate the conversation, Adam.
