Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Interview with Lieutenant General Michael Ferriter

I recently interviewed Lieutenant General Michael Ferriter on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today spent 35 years in the United States Armed Forces serving as an infantry officer, a paratrooper, a special operations Army Ranger, and the lieutenant general in charge of all army bases around the world. General Michael Ferriter is the President and CEO of the National Veterans Memorial and Museum, and a mentor to many veterans transitioning out of service. General Ferriter, Thank you for joining us.

General Ferriter: Adam, it's my pleasure to be with you.

Adam: Can you take listeners back to some of the most formative experiences early on in your military career? What were the key moments and best lessons that helped shape your trajectory as a leader?

General Ferriter: Sure. I think often you have to even go prior to that military service, prior to when you come in. And so I grew up in an army family and I moved 18 times in my first 18 years, and we lived in places like Fort Rucker, Alabama, and Fort Lewis in Washington State, and in Northern Virginia, and in Berlin, Germany, and Heidelberg. And so I think the beginning was just being exposed to a lot of different cultures, a lot of different people, and having to adapt. And, you know, from one school to a new school. And often, I did that by the sports that I played: baseball, and basketball, soccer. Little League stuff, and then high school stuff. But I think from there, you learn some of the real keys to life, which is to be a good team member. You cover your teammates, everybody. If you know where you lack in size, or strength or speed or talent, you can make up by hustle. So then you find yourself as a leader, a young leader, responsible for 30 plus men, in my case, and the infantry, but now men and women, and the same thing start to apply. And, you know, you wonder. You have some education. The issues first startup, they talk about leadership principles and stuff, like selfless service, and integrity and all that. But in the end, it's connecting with the people that you're responsible to take care of, and then figuring out what that means to take care of them. So make them fit, physically fit. Make them tough as heck, good shots with their weapons, and then show that you care about them and then make a cohesive team.

Adam: I think that's great advice. And those are themes that I believe in very strongly. And I'm sure we'll dive into greater depth as we continue the conversation. But I wanted to ask you a little bit more about your time as an Army Ranger. What should listeners understand about our special operations forces and about the rangers? And what can those of us who've never spent a day of our lives in an elite military unit learned from our special forces?

General Ferriter: Yeah, the Army Rangers are the premier infantry and Special Operations force in the world. It's made up of all volunteers. They were the men who claimed Eclipse 2.2, Hawking in World War Two, they were Merrill's marauders in the Pacific in Burma and World War Two. The roots are derived from that. And so there was this kind of no mission too difficult to take on mentality. And so again, the same thing I sort of said earlier, which is you got to try out, you got to show that you can lead the best of the best. You got the young privates who arrange for privates that come in, you know, they're like five time volunteers. They volunteered even to leave mom's basement, they volunteered to go to basic training, they volunteered for parachute school, they volunteered for Ranger Assessment Program, and then a volunteer for Ranger School. So to become a ranger, once you're in the Ranger unit, then you go to a 58 day leadership school where you get one meal a day, carry a 60 or 70 pound rucksack or Alice pack through the three phases of the mountains and in the swamps, and all of it is to put the Ranger in a physical and mental exhausting place where they can see really how far they can go. And then to know that it’s for the rest of their life when something seems crazy or tough, the guys aren't really that tough. I've seen worse. We can get through this. And so then you find that this group of men and women who are self driven, bond together, and it's like, wow. I was the fastest runner in my infantry battalion. And now, you know, everyone's fast. I was the, you know, the best hand to hand army combatives Jiu Jitsu guy. And now everyone is, you know? I was a great shot, and now everyone is. And that causes this championship team to grow even more in order to keep up or to challenge each other. A parachute is designed to parachute behind enemy lines like they did in Panama, and like you did in Grenada, like you did in Iraq. And like you've done other places that are too secret to talk about, and then driven, finally, to return and pass on what they learned from the elite forces.

Adam: So with that in mind, given that most people tuning into this podcast, are trying to attain a level of success in an area, outside of military service- we do have a number of listeners who are currently serving in the military- but listeners could be leaders of businesses, they could be entrepreneurs, they could be college students trying to develop the skill set to become a great leader. What are some of the lessons learned from your time, whether it was as an Army Ranger or as a paratrooper or other experiences you had in the military that can be directly applied to leaders and up and coming leaders?

General Ferriter: Yeah, I like to tell a story of my son, who's also an Army Ranger and as far as my son, Dan- and so Patty was going to command a ranger unit. In fact, it was the same one- Bravo Company, Second Ranger Battalion- that I had commanded some 15 years earlier. The only time in the history of our army that a father and son commanded the same Special Ops, Ranger unit. But he said, “Hey, Dad, I've written my themes and my command philosophy. It's eight pages long. Will you read it?” And I said, “No, I won't read it. Nor were any soldier. It's too long. So you got to boil it down to your essence.” And so to your question, he said, “Well, okay, Dad,” you know, okay, smarty pants, what do you use? And I said- well he asked this question in 2008, then, and I commanded the Rangers in ‘88. So it's 20 years. I said, I've used this ever since my first command. And so in order to demonstrate inspired leadership, that's what you have to wake up everyday thinking. Today, I'm going to demonstrate inspired leadership no matter what happens. And the first thing, there's only six. First thing is to do what's right. Okay? not just do it, but know that every single day when you think nobody's watching, they're staring. And if you're a person of character integrity, and you always say, well, what's the right thing to do? Now you're starting to demonstrate inspired leadership. The second is, do your best. And for your young listeners, everyone wants to try to be the best. That's not helpful. Do your best and things are going to work out. You end up being a better teammate, when you're doing your best. Rather than trying to be the best. We've seen teams, especially where The Lakers were dysfunctional because they had good players. I used to like the Lakers in the past, but they weren't all trying to just do their best; they were each trying to be the MVP. Those were not the glory years for the Lakers. But there were plenty of glory years, I would say. So just do what's right, and do your best to improve daily. So whatever your mission set, whatever your career path is, whatever- Improve in your family, relationships. Improve with your teammates or your fellow employee relationships. Improve physically; be in better shape tomorrow and the next day than you are today. Improve your technical knowledge, your professional knowledge. Do professional education, but improve one way or another. Don't miss the chance to get better. And then build teams. So every day a leader has to say, who on my team most wants to hear from me today? Well, as a military guy, we're always asked what's the most dangerous thing, who could get killed today? And then who could go home feeling unappreciated? So if you demonstrated interest in fine leadership, this has that kind of empathy or emotional intelligence that people talk about. It's common sense leadership, and then kind of show that you care, or take care of the little guy. And so as a leader reach out and take care. You think your competitors know, you think the customers know. So you the leader, that's incumbent on you, and then never quit. Sometimes we have to be the best in the world at rejecting rejection. And when you want to try to do something; if you're a startup, if you're a veteran out there getting started, if you're in a corporation, and you really think you've got something that's going to propel you along- which it's okay to have ambition, and ambitions, but you're going to get some rejection. When you sit down and sit back, then it's over. So six easy ones, do your best, do what's right, take care of the little guy, build teams, show you care, and never quit, and improve daily. And that's where, as I developed. whether I was in charge of 30 guys, the first platoon, or 123,000, in my last job, that philosophy is one that always puts you in a place where people say I was really glad to be working at that place at that time, because we had great leadership and not necessarily me, but it becomes infectious when you show that you can demonstrate and inspire leadership.

Adam: This show is 30 Minute Mentors. It's a half hour conversation, but to anyone listening to you, if you just listened to that, that's worth this conversation. That was incredible advice. I don't even know where to go with that because there's so many different directions we can go. I literally agree with every single word you said. One thing I do want to follow up on is your comment about the Lakers. I remember vividly before Phil Jackson took over, they were coached by Dell Harris. There were allstars on the team: Shaq, Coby, Nick Van Exel, and Eddie Jones. So I remember the team that you're referring to. And they did not make it very far in the postseason because, exactly to your point, they didn't play as a team. It was a bunch of guys looking out for themselves. And it wasn't until Phil Jackson came in and turned the culture around, built a culture that focused on winning first and statistics second. Winning first and individual glory comes after the team is able to win championship rings. That's what ultimately turned The Lakers around. And that was the beauty of Phil Jackson and all of his success. So I could not agree with you more.

General Ferriter: Yeah, a great leader can and will do that. And a great leader cannot live in an organization. And, you know, I was talking to one of my subordinate leaders, one guy named Mel Jellystone. And we're transforming organizations because leaders transform, that's what Phil did. That's what I do. You transform organizations, which requires a good simple laundry list of things that are going to have to get touched. But one of them is you may have to be unencumbered in the future of those that are going along with the way we want to go. And so the leaders make it clear that this is going to be or arranger units can be great if you don't measure up to the standard. All units have standards, great units and forces. So if you don't live up to what we're looking at our culture and our standards, it doesn't bother me just you're going to be working somewhere else. And I'm not going to be ugly and vilified. You're just going to move on because we're moving in a direction. And you see it and lots of great sports teams, which I'll see in great companies where they get a company core and a corporate culture. And they really go and it has this kind of multiple executive, this kind of energized, irreversible momentum when you get those organizations running.

Adam: And it's a great point. And going back to the example of The Lakers, when they finally did win a championship with Shaq and Kobe, they won it with a less talented team than the teams that didn't make it. They gave away players like Elden Campbell and Nick Van Excel, Eddie Jones, and they want to picking up Glen Rice and a bunch of role players but it was building an organizational culture and bringing in the right pieces, rather than having a bunch of guys who weren't on the same page and able to ultimately get it done. So whether you're leading a sports team, whether you're leading a unit in the military, or whether you're leading an entrepreneurial organization, the core principles of effective leadership are universal and this is as good an example of any.

General Ferriter: You bet.

Adam: I wanted to ask you about your time leading all of the army bases, which must have been an incredible experience. You oversaw 75 bases, a $12 billion annual budget, with 73,000 employees across 17 time zones. And I want to dive into each of those but the budget first. You saved $3 billion dollars in operating expenses. That's a real number. How did you develop the skill set that enabled you to manage a $12 billion budget? And how did you go about saving the military and U.S. taxpayers $3 billion?

General Ferriter: Well, often a good leader, when you're a lieutenant in the army, you arrive, and you've got a bunch of weapon systems. And you're 11 weeks out of college, you know, and you may have touched them all once at summer camp. So you have to have the humility to say, to go find someone to say, how does this machine gun really work? Or, how does this radio really work? Or, how does this armored personnel carrier work- can you teach me to drive? I don't know how to do it. And you're an 18 year old or 19 year old with a high school degree. And I'm this hotshot Lieutenant with more rank, and you have to salute, you got to have the humility to say, I just don't know. So I take that into corporations, too, and say, you know, I know how to lead. But I made it. I don't know how taking trash off army bases works. So you ask the question. Who's the best- we got 75 people in charge of doing this so someone's the best. Now why are they the best? Who's the best at running Child Development Centers? Right? These places with all our little guys and girls in there? And how did they run their curriculum? Who's the best at running 55 golf courses that are on the hourly basis that I felt it was my job to inspect, personally? But you know, if you ask that question, then the team realizes your expertise. You have people all the time underneath you saying, if I could just get the word to the boss, we'd fix this crap, I promise you. And so you just say, hey, you know what's the best? And you don't just ask what's the best, you go back to do what's right and say, what's the best way to do this? And people say, well, we're 15 years behind in American industry. And no one's got the courage to make that transformational change. So that's the approach I took. And that's when they told me, you can uncover their future and there will be time for you to say to someone, you don't want to change out here in Fort Huachuca. Do you think you're worth a million dollars a year to us, because you're not. But you're worth a million dollars to us if you'll continue to be a leader, but you got to be comfortable with change. So that's, you know, that was a first. And then suddenly you have to have some science, for instance. You have to have an authoritative database and a database management system that allows you to see how all 75 bases are doing something. And then you got to have a meeting management system of some form. Now it's way more comfortable with Zoom and Microsoft Teams and the like. Then we were in 2012. But you got it, you know, I did a worldwide video teleconference. Monday, Wednesday and Friday, and then you'd pick some line of operation, like dining facilities, or barracks or rifle ranges, or airfields are trash removal, and say, how are we doing it? And there's no reason for us to do it other than that the taxpayer expected us to have the courage to lead. There's a couple good books around the title, don't be afraid to be the boss. And then you have to build that team and say, I really trust you to do what I want you to do and in the National Veterans Memorial Museum where we are now we're in our second year, they've been in COVID for half of that time now almost. And, you know, we're looking at virtual exhibit halls and tours and I tell the guys, tell me how the best way to do it is and when you do that you get this innovation and creativity as a culture. That's what I did in order to save three billion dollars and transform the way we did business across the globe. And have everyone having fun. It's great.

Adam: Yeah, that's great advice. Do you have any other tips given that right now we're in this moment where, and we talked about this off the air; change is as important as anything. And this is something I talk about quite a bit. Change is important at all times as an entrepreneur, as a leader. You're constantly managing change, you're constantly trying to tool your organization to adapt to change. But in this moment that we're in today, you can't avoid change. What advice do you have for leaders on number one, how to personally tool themselves to manage change, and number two, how to build an organizational culture that is best equipped to adapt to change?

General Ferriter: Let me start by quoting a woman named Frances Hesselbein, she saved the Girl Scouts in the ‘60’s and early ‘70’s. She's 104 or so. And she's been advising all the senior generals in the army for many years. She would say leadership is who you are and management is what you do. And so be keen on that distinction. So as you go, the leader, so goes, your organization. They're going to follow you. So if you're cranky, or you're pissed off about everything, you got a sucking-on-a-lemon-look all the time on your face. That's the way the dreariness you'll bring your work at home. So instead, go back to demonstrate inspired leadership. But first of all, this is what I do when leading change and leading into crisis. Number one, show that you care. Talk to people as a leader. Never ever walk by someone. Know everybody's birthday. Know their kids or if they're going to have a baby. You know, check to make sure they're okay. Say thank you. You can't say thank you too many times in a day. Show you care. Everyone's working from home now. So what's your plan to know that everyone's okay. Right? How have you adjusted paid time off and work and so we adjusted hours because childcare costs are all screwed up. And so we have people trying to do two things and take your kids through tele-school, and, and when tele-school is not on, to be the child development at home person, all while fulfilling work. So you have to show you care. Number two, as the leader, provide a vision for where the organization is going to go. You’ve got to stop right there and say, listen, we're going to be okay. And here's where we're going. We're pivoting the National Veterans Memorial Museum to digital and virtual events, because nobody's coming through the door. Create certainty. You have to have a lot of certainty in the management that you do. The meetings, the phone calls, the emails, Skype, Zoom, and Microsoft Teams. And then reiterate that message. If we're going here then I got your back. Create certainty. Everyone's afraid they're going to get furloughed or laid off. I didn't furlough anybody. No. 180% of museums in America are closing, and 50% of those may not come back. We’ll still be positive. The only thing we control in life is our attitude. So tell them, when we're going to get through this, we have to- you know, the world is too big to stop it, right? So we were going to end up somewhere. So let's go for it. If you're providing division, then begin with the end in mind. Think about where you want to be, and how to get there. And then survive. Don't be naive, and don't be reckless. You can risk and be comfortable. But you have to survive. And still take the steps necessary to protect your team and protect your business. And then go to excel. Don't be comfortable managing survival. You got to get back out there, get knocked down, get back up, you know? Being the leader is getting to the ball, you’ve got to get back in about a box, you know, that stuff. So then, for your team, tell them- I don't want you to know more than anyone else. I want our database system to be able to see ourselves. I want us to answer the question, what's our mission now? Then I want us to be positive and never quit. So those are just 10 things. But most of all is, when everyone else is trained and you know, taken on this cycle, bike race, a road bike race or triathlon, be at the top of the hill and everyone takes a deep breath, that you push 200 yards; you extend your distance. It's like that feeling in combat jujitsu when you hear that person quit. There’s that feeling in sports. And it's that feeling and who we find today, not other museums. We try COVID to make sure that that our team is well taken care of, that we grow, and that we represent our national betters.

Adam: General Ferriter, I literally, again, agree with everything you said. I love, specifically, your message to listeners that you're not competing with your competitors, you're competing with yourself. And I think that that's something really important for everyone to take in because as competitive as we are, we need to understand who we are truly competing with. I also like your reference to the guy playing Little League who gets hit by the pitch, and the importance of getting back up. When I played baseball, I was the captain of my high school baseball team and I actually would try to dive into pitches, but that was because I wasn't a good hitter. So that was my best way of trying to get on base. It was either take a walk, or get hit by a pitch. So that was a whole other strategy. I wanted to ask you about your experience serving in Iraq, you served three tours of duty. And there were two really important leadership and business skills, among many others, that were a premium that I want to ask you about. And those are coalition building and negotiating. Can you talk about your experience in Iraq and more broadly, in the military, building coalitions and partnerships, and your time engaged in high stakes negotiations and share any advice that you have for listeners on both of those topics?

General Ferriter: That's amazing. I don't know where you heard that. But a couple things. First of all, building coalitions, or partnering with others, you have to is my take on it. And I think you have to take it on, like you're playing go fish with your cards facing out. So you're gonna you want to make that person across the table successful. And whether it's the Iraqi government, the Iraqi people in the neighborhood, you know, the defense forces of Norway or in Italy and the Czech Republic. In Canada, you know, they were all underneath me in a NATO training mission. And so in all cases, recognizing that we're going to view the world a little bit differently than each other, and work towards building trust. And we call, you know, cups of tea, or a young guy wrote about it. But you know, you're gonna have to sit across the table. You're going to hear things that are- you know, whoever you're working with, whether it's Amazon and Microsoft or two companies trying to join each other, there's going to be scar tissue from the past. Yeah, get past that. You guys say, roger that, you know, and if they hear it enough times they understand that you're not trying to gain that positional advantage that burned them in the past. So first, it's going to be both to build trust and share info. Be firm on what you stand for. Very firm. Yes is yes and no is no. But let them know that, hey, we can get something done. And then again, I think you have to challenge them, lead them, pull them in positions to get out of their comfort zone. Most companies, I would say, and certainly most cultures have self interest in mind. You know, the Somalis had seen people come into Mogadishu, and they threw them in the ocean for centuries. And they knew. They would sit around campfires and say, whoever comes in here, you'll fight and chase them out. And Iraqis, you know, we were on a one year clock. And so they knew that this, you know, was going to leave and another American unit or coalition would come in. So you would inherently have to move smoothly and rapidly to get them to understand we have to make progress during this evolution. And we could and by way of that, two big projects that in 0809 were the sons for Iraq, where we brought the Sunni men up from the cold and brought them into neighborhood watch, and stole them from vision. 104,000 semi-supporters of Al Qaeda now became full supporters of the U.S. and the killing and maiming of our soldiers, sailors, and marines stopped because of that and awarded to, and the later sold, the F16 and a bunch of military gear to the Iraqis. And no matter what your political affiliation is, if they are buying from us, then they're not buying from the Persians. They're not buying from the Russians. And that means that in part, having lived in Berlin as a kid, having a footprint somewhere, means someone else does. So persuasion. And what, you know, when I said, can you raise money at the NVM? Mmhmm. So I think that's a matter of persuasion. I'm an army general, I've never raised money. We're not allowed to. But I've convinced people to do a lot of stuff out of their comfort zone. You know, what if you say, I'm here, we're gonna do this. And they say, no. It hasn't changed. Pressure hasn't changed what you want to get done, if you're starting a business that hasn't changed.

Adam: I want to ask you about one last topic. And that's motivation. What are some of the strategies or tactics that you deployed in your time in the military that are applicable to leaders across all organizations?

General Ferriter: I think leading by example is really important. And so there's a hotel in Carmel, called the lapply. I come from Carmel Valley, and my dad retired out there and, and we visited there the last couple of years since I retired. And we can see employees coming out of the kitchen at the end of each day with, with big, you know, gobs and gobs of food they're stealing. Well, you know, those kinds of things happen because of the tone of the leaders. For instance, I went in and asked, hey, how often does the manager come in? And he said, you know, once a week. So set the example. So for military units, be physically fit, be tough, be someone who never quits, be someone who's nearly always the first one in and nearly always the last one out, and share hardship with your team, understand what they're going through, and thank them. That, to me, those are just the key things, if you're not a good example, they're not gonna want to follow you, they're not gonna be motivated. You can't lead with candy and cake and ice cream and giveaways. Those are satisfiers and just satisfiers instead of motivators. And so the motivation has to come from within, because they believe in you. And they believe in you because you've shown that you trust and respect them, no matter where they came from, no matter what their walk of life is or their background is, they're on your team now. And you're not going to let anybody mess with them. And you're going to make sure that you get the resources and the vision, and then let them get after.

Adam: That’s tremendous advice and absolutely applicable to leaders across all disciplines. General Ferriter, thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for all of your wisdom. And thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

General Ferriter: Well, Adam, I know that your grandfathers served in World War II and so from all of us. We tried to uphold the tradition of that Greatest Generation. And we thank you and thank them for our freedom. And I invite everyone to come to the National Veterans Memorial Museum at nationalvmm.org and, and join us as a member to see our online activities and run a virtual run with us. And then when our doors open, find a way to get in.

Adam: Thanks again.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

Follow Adam on Instagram and Twitter at @adammendler and listen and subscribe to Thirty Minute Mentors on your favorite podcasting app.