Stick To a Mission You Know To Be Worthwhile: Interview with Terry Lin and Jiake Liu, Co-Founders of Outer
I recently spoke to Terry Lin and Jiake Liu, co-founders of Outer.
Adam: Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice. First things first, though, I am sure readers would love to learn more about you. How did you get here? What experiences, failures, setbacks, or challenges have been most instrumental to your growth?
Terry: It’s easy to look back at my career and see how the experiences led me to where I am today.
My path to Outer was not straightforward or planned. Like everyone, I’ve had my healthy dose of challenging times that eroded my confidence and tested my resolve.
I’ve spent the first part of my career doing design consulting with the most famous one being IDEO. During this time it taught me to go deep into understanding user behavior and how to break down problems into their component parts and then rebuilding them to create a better product or experience. After my time in consulting, I jumped over to the client side and went much deeper into home furnishings product development at Pottery Barn where my responsibilities were to design products based on style, price point and material. All of these are critical in successful merchandising, but one element that was solving problems beyond that criteria. I took a “detour” in my career where I saw more job security being on the business side of retail and took on a role as Director of Ecom at Walmart.com: something that I somehow proved to my manager that I was capable of doing but was woefully unprepared to do it well. I struggled to rewire my brain to go from a lifetime of right-brained thinking (I have a fine arts degree) to left-brained thinking. This was one of the darkest times in my career where I was a beginner among experts and struggling to keep up. During this time, I had a quote that I kept on replay in my head from Albert Einstein - “You really don’t understand something unless you can explain it to your grandmother.” I can humbly say that I was not good at my job during this time, I worked my ass off since I was at such a disadvantage and can say that I got to the point that I could explain the fundamentals of how to run e-commerce to my grandmother. Fast forward to today and I realize that the twists and turns in my career with the highs and lows have helped me handle the highs and lows that are inevitable as a founder.
Jiake: I pursued computer engineering in college and upon graduation started a venture-funded software startup. Though eventually successful, I made all the mistakes imaginable for a first-time founder, the biggest setback being a co-founder breakup. At the time, it was the most difficult and depressing professional experience I’ve had to endure, but in hindsight it was instrumental to my growth as I know what’s most important in a co-founder relationship, which boils down to four words: “Complementary skills, overlapping values.” I’m grateful to say that Terry and I enjoy a great co-foundership, which is paramount to the culture and success of the team we build together.
Adam: How did you come up with your business idea? What advice do you have for others on how to come up with great ideas?
Terry: When Jiake first reached out to me cold on LinkedIn, I was a bit jaded on the home furnishings industry. In my decades of designing furniture, the problem that I was tasked with solving was mainly about making small tweaks to what worked in prior years in terms of style and price point. It was never about looking at how to solve customer problems beyond that. Jiake and I both agreed that it was important to not offer a comparable product in a sea of comparable products. We knew that for us to have a business, we needed to solve something that either has not been solved or that we could solve in a more effective way.
For Outer, we had a design thesis that people didn’t utilize their backyard furniture because for them to enjoy it, there was prep work to get their furniture ready to be used. Oftentimes, the cushions were wet from morning dew, dirty from dust or pollen, dirty with bird poop or a combination of those things. There were only two solutions available to consumers. 1. Cover the furniture with a big cumbersome rain cover which takes time and may prevent you from getting out for a few minutes and save the effort when you may spend more time outside or 2. Bring the cushions inside which mean multiple trips to put the cushions on your furniture.
This insight led us to exploring a new alternative which is now our patented Outershell. This solution was designed within a few minutes and we had no idea that we could have gotten a robust patent on it. It proves the point that there are plenty of problems in the world that have yet to be solved.
I’ve since used a term in Outer that helps us decide what is worthy of our attention in exploring. Anytime we talk about a flagship product explorations, I ask “What is the Seinfeld moment?” Those that are familiar with the show may remember his beginning and ending monologue where he is standing up on stage and he begins by saying “Have you ever noticed...” or “Why is it that…” and identifies an everyday problem that most people can relate to.
We overlook everyday problems and think we have to solve much bigger problems. You don’t need to have an advanced degree to solve problems. There are problems hiding in plain sight.
Jiake: I remember the exact moment when the idea of Outer struck. Years ago one morning I sat on my outdoor sofa to enjoy my cup of coffee, only to find a few seconds later the cushion was wet. It’s a bad feeling that many people can relate to, which we later jokingly call the “Wet Bottom Syndrome.” Then I did some research and found out that most people with outdoor furniture don’t use them as much due to the upkeep, and I thought there must be a better way to keep the outdoor furniture dry, clean, and ready to use. This singular pain point led to discoveries such as the health and wellness benefits of spending more time outdoors, and ultimately what united my Co-Founder, Terry, and me is the mission of inspiring sustainable lifestyle through positive experiences. In other words, if people can enjoy the joy of the great outdoors every day, they will take action in protecting the environment. It doesn’t take a grand trip to the national park to enjoy the great outdoors, it just takes a small step in a backyard. We thought this was a mission worth building a business around.
Adam: How did you know your business idea was worth pursuing? What advice do you have on how to best test a business idea?
Terry: We started Outer by launching one product line which was basically two sku’s and two colorways which is antithetical to how most furniture brands launch products. It was important for us to focus on designing the best product that focused on quality, durability, sustainability, and protection. Our first-year goal was simple. Sell 100 sofas. This was the signal that we felt gave us the permission to keep going and work on more products.
Jiake: Outer is often known for its Neighborhood Showroom idea, which is turning our customers’ backyards into crowdsourced local showrooms. We currently have over a thousand of them all across the US. Initially, I thought the idea was a little crazy. Would people want strangers to come by their home to check out their sofa? I started by posting the question to Nextdoor to see if any of my neighbors are willing to do this, and after getting 60 comments in a few days and talking to a few dozen of them in person, I knew this idea was worth pursuing. My advice is to start testing an idea by getting closest to your customers, ideally people you don’t know, either online or offline to validate your assumptions.
Adam: What are the key steps you have taken to grow your business? What advice do you have for others on how to take their businesses to the next level?
Terry: Unless you are a seasoned entrepreneur, which I am not, you make a lot of mistakes. Identify early what your priorities are in terms of the right balance between growth and profitability. They are on opposite ends of the spectrum and getting the mix right is difficult. Venture capital used to flow freely with borrowing costs almost free. Know that you are going to get your assumptions wrong. Course correct and adapt quickly in changing headwinds or tailwinds.
Jiake: Find things in your business that work, albeit on a small scale, then double down on them. Find things in your businesses that don’t work, try them one more time, then if they still don’t work, reallocate resources to things that you are doubling down.
Adam: What are your best sales and marketing tips?
Terry: I’ve never subscribed to the idea of selling. Customers are savvy and can spot when you are just regurgitating a talk track. Find colleagues that believe in your product and philosophy. This authenticity will come across easily and the idea of selling is more about educating customers on the product. They can make their own decision on what makes sense for them.
Jiake: Do one or at most two things very well and let customers recite it for you. In our case, it’s the OuterShell built-in cover on the product side and the Neighborhood Showroom crowdsourced platform on the experience side. People remember Outer by these things and market on our behalf.
Adam: In your experience, what are the defining qualities of an effective leader? How can leaders and aspiring leaders take their leadership skills to the next level?
Terry: We’ve come up with the “alphabet” of how we evaluate ourselves, the exec team as well as any candidates that we interview.
A - Authentic
B - Benevolent
C - Curious
D - Driven and Direct
E - Ego Free
F - Frugal
G - Grit
Jiake: Find the reason why you are working on what you are working on. That’s your mission. You should wake up on most days very energized by this mission despite the inevitable hurdles you will face. Convey your mission to recruit like-minded people and constantly remind them, and yourself, of this mission. As long as you are all motivated by this mission through the ups and downs, I think you are an effective leader.
Adam: What is your best advice on building, leading, and managing teams?
Terry: Know what your own strengths and weaknesses are. Don’t fool yourself on your own shortcomings and find leaders who balance out your own skills. Once you have the right folks in place, figure out the correct ratio between oversight and autonomy.
Jiake: Build a team by inspiring them with your mission and let them cook.
Adam: What are your three best tips applicable to entrepreneurs, executives, and civic leaders?
Terry:
There will be plenty of naysayers of why you can’t do something or how hard it would be to achieve. My advice is simple. Be like a bumble bee. A study was done in the 1930s where a scientist determined that the flight dynamics of a bumble bee was impossible due to the round body and stubby wings yet no one told the bumble bee that they can’t fly so they go about doing what is impossible.
Your initial business thesis may be right but more than likely, will need to evolve. Be adaptable and pay attention to all the signals to help you make good decisions.
Stay frugal as long as you can.
Jiake: Practice “third-person view.” Don’t let the downs faze you. Don’t let the highs change you.
Adam: What is the single best piece of advice you have ever received?
Terry: Surround yourself with people that believe in you.
Jiake: Every ill luck is good for something in a wise person's hand.
Adam: Is there anything else you would like to share?
Terry: Do a search for the term IKIGAI. I’ve been on a journey to find my IKIGAI and am fortunate to have found mine with Jiake as my co-founder. Do the work to identify yours.
Jiake: I think this is the best time to start a business, and it’s also the best time to stick to a mission you know to be worthwhile.
Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one-on-one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.
Follow Adam on Instagram and Twitter at @adammendler and on LinkedIn and listen and subscribe to Thirty Minute Mentors on your favorite podcasting app.