Without Trust There Can Be No Connection: Interview with former Navy SEAL and New York Times bestselling author Mark Divine

Several years ago, I interviewed former Navy SEAL and New York Times bestselling author Mark Divine in an interview originally published in Thrive Global. Here is an excerpt from our conversation:

Adam: Who are the greatest leaders you have been around and what did you learn from them?

Mark: Retired SEAL Admiral William H. McRaven was my Commanding Officer at SEAL Team Three. I learned the importance of vision and obsessive communication of that vision from him. While his peers were dealing with now issues, McRaven was able to see years ahead and position ST-3 (and later the entire SOF community as the Commander of SOCOM) for future conflicts to resolve.

Tadashi Nakamura is the founder of World Seido Karate Organization and my Zen teacher in my early twenties. I learned the power of sincere care for those you are leading, and the importance of showing up every day to “do the work” of bettering oneself so you can lead by example, and most importantly, the power of silence to balance out the action and receive the insights.

Adam: In your experience, what are the defining qualities of an effective leader?

Mark: Trust – a leader must both trust and be trustworthy. These are character traits that can’t be hacked or faked. I think that this is the most important, for without trust there can be no connection, and the leader–team relationship will become transactional.

Humility – I believe that humility is both an earned trait, as well as a daily practice. This is crucial for a leader because it is not about them after all… it is all about the mission and the team. So a leader must get over his or her brilliance, accomplishments, power… and serve.

Adaptability – Leaders must be adaptable in today’s rapidly changing environment. This adaptability is so they can evolve, but also lead by example in creating an adaptable organization that thrives in VUCA… volatility, uncertainty, complexity, and ambiguity.

Adam: How can leaders and aspiring leaders take their leadership skills to the next level?

Mark: The number one way leaders can take their skills to the next level is through integrated development. This is where the leader has a defined plan of action to develop physically, mentally, emotionally, intuitively, and spiritually… and these are linked and integrated. The result is the development of “whole mind” thinking where belly, heart, head, and hands are all acting in concert for mission accomplishment.

Second, as whole-mind thinking expands a leader’s capacity to learn and lead, so does it also expand the capacity to see things from broader, more inclusive perspectives. So the leader can take the perspective of others he or she may disagree with, and make a new perspective that transcends, but includes all previous perspectives. This type of leader has a world-centric attitude, which is very inspiring, and dare I say, necessary for humanity.

Third, the leader must learn to connect at a deeper heart level, and stop investing in anything that is remotely connected to planetary degradation or conflict. The leaders must learn to create closed-loop systems that replenish rather than deplete resources and uplift all rather than just the few.

Adam: What is your best advice on building, managing, and leading teams?

Mark: Develop a culture that is so energized and vibrant that it attracts the best and brightest who align with your vision, mission, and values. That way the leadership spends time selecting and training, rather than recruiting and hoping.

Second, put the team under pressure with tight timelines and competition. Pressure brings out the best in teams… just as fire melts ore to create iron.

Communicating culture daily, and as often as possible. This communication is done through directly stating vision, mission, and values, by pointing out alignment and aberrations, through decisions and attention, and by trusting (yet verifying) that those executing the mission at the ground level can autonomously act in alignment with the culture.

Adam: Is there anything else you would like to share?

Mark: Leaders need to step up their game to drive a new paradigm of human connection, non-violence, multi-stakeholder wins, and protecting the precious earth. The last 100 or so years have been very destructive to the environment, and we have proven to be poor shepherds of the awesome technology our rational brains have developed. Now we face the more serious existential threats than at any time in the history of humankind. Corporate and educational leaders are in the best position (as opposed to political, military, bureaucratic, or church leaders) to demand change and to lead by example to usher the world away from the destructiveness of the industrial age and into a new, world-centric, era.


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one-on-one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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