I recently interviewed Regus Founder Mark Dixon on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is a pioneer in the world of co-working. Mark Dixon is the founder of Regus now known as IWG, which has more than 4,000 locations across more than 120 countries and where Mark also serves as CEO. Mark, thank you for joining us.

Mark: It's a pleasure.

Adam: Pleasure is mine. You grew up in England and dropped out of school when you were 16 to start a sandwich business. It was the first of several businesses that you started. Before starting Regus, you spent your teens and 20s not only as an entrepreneur but taking on a bunch of different odd jobs all over the world. Can you take listeners back to your early days, what early experiences and lessons shaped your worldview and shaped the trajectory of your success?

Mark: I think leaving school, I was a great student at school, but school teaching was too slow for me. So I decided that I couldn't wait. I get out there and start running a business. But I was also at the same time smart enough, I suppose even in those days, just to know that to be successful, I'd need to get a lot more experience both in business and reading books. That's how I sort of made up for the fact that I didn't attend college or further education. So I sort of took it quite seriously to expand my knowledge. I started that first business and realized it quite quickly. It was a successful small business. But I realized I had no idea at all about how to run a business. So then I went and decided I needed to get a broader experience. So I decided to travel around the world. And I did some fantastic jobs working for other people and learning. I know I learned different languages. I love French, I learned about the restaurant business and great training for anyone who went to Australia, and I went to the United States. So I went all the way around the world doing different things, whether that was selling, or working in mines, but met lots of people who call us have experience and sort of rounded out the practical part of my education. And not only meet people, I've worked in a lot of different businesses, so you get a different view of how things can work. So that set me up for later business. I mean, look, one thing that I'd say is all of my early businesses were successful. It's just a question of how successful you may have spent too much time on something, spent too much capital, and always made a return on capital. And they started out pretty small and got bigger and reinvested the capital the whole time. And it was that early experience. I think that set me up for it.

Adam: How did the idea for Regus come together? And how did you actualize it?

Mark: The idea for Regus came together in about 1988, I was running a business I've done other businesses that got bigger and bigger. I had a big bakery business. I was one of the biggest manufacturers of hamburger buns in the UK. I sold that business to a conglomerate. I was 27 years old at the time and now decided to move to Europe. I moved to Belgium, wanting to get some European experience. I thought there were more opportunities there. And I started up a business they're doing what today would be called apartments, family apartments. I was doing them for lots of young people who wanted furnished accommodation in Brussels. And that was a business I did there quite successfully buying properties, converting them, and making them ready to use. It was very flexible stuff in those days. And it was at the time when the European Union. This new governmental setup for Europe was coming into place lots of people moving to Brussels and Belgium. From that, I saw the opportunity where real estate really wasn't an easy thing for companies to buy or use. And I could see a lot of people that were in the market potentially for a space that was serviced a space that was flexible, ready to use. And it's quite similar to what I did in apartments actually. So it was an extension of that at the time. So I studied what was there, I studied what was available around the world, and started the business in September 1989. But it was about six months, nine months in planning. I launched it in September and 89, was a great success. I doubled it in a year and added one more. Right from the beginning, it was I found a gap in the market, which was a gap that really did exist, and had huge potential even in those days. And this was before the internet, before Wi-Fi, and pretty much before mobile phones became widespread. There were certainly no smartphones in 1989.

Adam: Do you have any advice for anyone listening to this conversation interested in trying to understand how to find that gap in the market? Whether they're trying to start their own business, whether they're a part of a business trying to expand into a different business into a different market, what tips do you have?

Mark: Look, it's just about keeping your eyes open for opportunity. I do it. As a matter of habit I always have, when I look around, I don't see what's there. I see what's not there. And I want to try and understand an opportunity of things that just haven't arrived yet but should be there. It's one of those irritating habits, my family dislikes it because I'm always doing it. But it's just keeping your eyes open. And it's trying to see when things don't fit into a pattern when things don't run smoothly, where it should be easier. And so the whole world, even though the world is a developed place, it is absolutely full of opportunity around every corner, and under every stone, but you got to look for it. Once you have an idea, then the most important thing is trying to talk yourself out of it. And really research thinking about it going through every angle. I've seen many people just get started before and getting started is a very good thing to do. But spend time thinking about it, planning it, research the market, think of it from every angle, think about everything that could go wrong. And think about what's really required and how much can it scale. And it's sort of spending a bit more time playing. I see many people that don't. And that's my first advice to people getting going in business take the opportunity, but don't necessarily start the next day however obvious it may be.

Adam: In your case, you are able to pretty easily validate the idea for Regus, it was a hit right off the bat. But in the case of many other businesses, the idea may feel great may seem great, but to your point, it requires validation. And oftentimes, when you do that validation, you come to realize that this actually isn't that great of an idea, might feel like a great idea, but might not be that great of a business. How can entrepreneurs validate their ideas? How can they understand whether they have a business or not?

Mark: Find something like it, most things will have something similar. I mean, if you look back to our business, the Romans were doing it 2000 years ago, it was something that was around then because resources were very short in Roman times, see how to get very good use from assets, assets had huge value. There's oftentimes something in history, there's businesses that are similar. You can talk to other people, but you have to be careful because most people will try and talk you out of it. Talking to like-minded people. Good. Be careful, they don't steal your idea. So just discussing it, looking at it, researching it, you have a wonderful thing called the internet these days. And you should be able to find 50 different things that are similar to what you're going to do. And think about what your model is think about how you're going to go from A to B and from B to Zed. You don't have to have the whole thing mapped out. But you need to know what's required. But do your planning quickly. This is not something that you should be spending years on. So especially in the tech age that we live in, you should be able to research it as far as asked, and there's no problem saying, look, the idea is not good enough. And for me, I've done this a lot, very often a better idea will come out of the first idea you had, it just needed more adaptation. And I have both the office business that we've spoken about, I also have a very large manufacturer of wine in the south of France, and in the UK, and that has a lot of... even though wines have been around for years, has a lot of innovation, a lot of business models requires a lot of planning, it's always about being different, even though that's a well-established business. And there's always space for innovation if it's well-planned and well-thought-through.

Adam: Mark, you've shared so much great advice. And just to pick up on one of the tips you shared. There's no problem saying that your idea is not good enough. Being willing to move on being willing to acknowledge that what you've been working on what you've been pinning your hopes on, isn't allows you to figure out what is allows you to figure out what ultimately is that idea. Or if it's not an idea? What is that passion, that opportunity that you can ultimately go in on that will allow you to be successful that will allow you to excel?

Mark: Absolutely, let's... look it's all about you get better at it as well. It's like any skill, the more you do it, the better you'll get at it, that process of self-analysis, looking at an opportunity, looking at yourself, and understanding how you can make it better. If you keep doing it, you will get very good at it. Eventually, when you do find the right thing, you'll be quicker, and you will be more successful at getting those first stages right. But you should never give up. And you shouldn't really listen too much to other people, very often people talk you out of it. Because they're not entrepreneurial. Their lives are different. They don't think in a way that's entrepreneurial, that's risk-taking, they're much more conservative, much more narrow in their thinking. So I always use that as an inspiration. For me personally, if someone says you can't do something, I take that as a personal challenge. And I'll think it through even more.

Adam: Mark, you share something really interesting, which is the concept of never giving up. And I think that there's a really important distinction to highlight for anyone listening between a scenario where you feel like I have put in so much time so much effort, and I'm exhausted, everyone around me is telling me no telling me I can't do it. But deep down, I really believe in it. Don't give up, don't give up. But you need to draw a distinction between that. And being willing to move on when you might know in your heart of hearts that you're pursuing what you're pursuing, for the wrong reason. Are you pursuing it because... you're not giving up because you are afraid of failing? Because you're afraid of what it might look like if this doesn't work out for you? Why are you unwilling to move on? Is it because you have this deep belief in your business? Or is it for some other reason? What is the reason? Why? And that should dictate whether or not you go forward, whether you double down, or whether you move on.

Mark: Yeah, look on the add-on to say this look, the biggest enemy for an entrepreneur is time, your time is limited. And the most important thing is not to waste your time. Because that's the one thing you can't get back, you can get back your capital, but you can't get back your time. So the most important thing is to really be quite ruthless, in question very, very carefully, how much time you're gonna spend on something. And it's always a good idea also to have several ideas on the go. Because then you've got more options. If you really want to go and create a business, you want to do something or you want to create something new for your company or whatever, having several options, and working on those helps. But time, time, time. It's really spending time in the right way, being efficient with that time, and sort of time-boxing things. If I'm not clear by the end of the month, I'm going to put it to one side and look for something else.

Adam: I'd love to dive more into that topic. Can you share with listeners, what your daily routine looked like, as you were building Regus, and what your daily routine looks like now?

Mark: Ah, well, I'm an entrepreneur. So my daily routine is always changing. But, look, if I look at the beginning, it was about managing cash it was about growing the business quickly, all the businesses I've had have grown very fast. In the previous ones, I went from zero in hamburger buns to a million a week. I didn't even know how to make a hamburger bun at the beginning. But I learned fast and that business, I started it and sold it in five years. If you look at IWG Regus, this is a company that I grew at the beginning with my own cash, no borrowings for 10 years, 100% every year, your routine changes as the company gets bigger, and you have to focus on other things like financing, and for us, it was then we took venture capital private equity in about year 10. And then IPO in year 11. Very successful IPO, on the London Stock Exchange. So these were different considerations, but business still growing very fast. A lot of it is about hiring people and getting the right team around you. A lot of my time was spent at the beginning, communicating with those people doing the business plan, being clear on the plan, adapting the plan as I went along, and questioning what we were doing, and why we were doing it. It's my job as CEO then. And now to be questioning what we're doing. Not just doing it's not my job today to operate the business. Although I'm responsible for that. My job today is still about innovation. And we're innovating more now as a company than we've done at any time in our 30-year history. Because the whole way that people are working is developing extremely fast. And we're creating new products to fit in with the new demands. And that involves a lot of creativity and a great team of people questioning everything, and creating products that then people can buy easily. If you look at my schedule today, about 60% of my time is spent with pure business development and creativity. The other 40% is somewhat with the markets, public markets, financing, etc. But the remaining part would be the running of the business that's reviewing making sure that we're on track and delivering.

Adam: Given your incredible track record growing and scaling, not only in Regus but all of your other businesses, your hamburger bun business. What are the keys to growing and scaling any business?

Mark: Just don't be reasonable. You know, the thing is, you've got to be quite unreasonable about things. I mean, this is what people forget about if you're going to be an entrepreneur or CEO, you're gonna run a business, it's not your job to be reasonable about the outcomes. It's not your job to go with the flow. It's your job to challenge, it's your job to think about what your company could be, not what it is everyone knows what it is, what could it be, and be ambitious for your company, or your idea. Be proud of it. I mean, running a business is running a business, growing a business, that's something totally different. And you see some brilliant entrepreneurs in the world today or in previous generations. I guarantee none of them were reasonable. None of them, not one of them were reasonable men or women. They said no, I don't accept the status quo. I think we should be doing this. Now not everyone agrees. But that's where I wanted to be. Now let's have a debate about how we get there. So I think that's what it's about. That is true leadership is not the ability to stand up in front of a crowd. It's not the ability to be popular is the ability to think about direction, and about what it looks like at the top of the mountain, what it looks like, on the mountain range, that's your job, get up there, get moving.

Adam: I love that. Leadership isn't just about overseeing the people who you're leading, overseeing the organization that you're responsible for. It's about questioning, it's about challenging. It's about pushing. It's about doing everything that you can to make sure that the people you're leading the teams that you're leading, the organization that you're leading, are getting to that next level, being the best that they can be.

Mark: And it's also your five people. As your company grows, even your own team will be telling you, you can't do this, or you can't do that. Or one of my favorite things, they will say there's a role, legal accounting, something, I asked to see them. I said, okay, can you show me that rule? I want to read it. So sometimes people will say things, but they're unsubstantiated. Challenging is about actually following through as well. Because sometimes they're right. So you can get proper challenges. And you got to listen to those. It's not just about challenging, it's about challenging, follow through. And if someone is right about the challenge, hearing that, and then changing direction accordingly. But you've got to be quite punchy, about getting the facts to make your decision. Because whilst it's good to be questioning, it's good to be aspirational. When you're doing this, you don't want to fall off the cliff, you want to get to the top of the mountain, you don't want to fall on the way, so bringing people with you and listening to people around you, but the same time being quite diligent about separating fact from fiction, all important in building a business.

Adam: He shared a few of them the power of listening, and self-confidence, what do you believe are the key characteristics of the very best leaders? And what can anyone do to become a better leader?

Mark: I'm amazed at how many people can do leadership. And I see it in people in our own business, where people once given the chance to lead can do a great job. It's just sometimes no one ever goes from the chance because they don't seem to be a natural leader, but people are leaders in their own lives. There's a lot of potential there. But I think leadership is just what you said, it's about the ability to listen, the ability to sort of take information, fact fiction, opportunity, mash that together into steps, we start here, these are the steps we're going to take to get to our goal to our destination, and not being afraid to change direction along the way. I've seen many, many instances of people who say because I decided that's the way we're going to go. That's the way we're gonna go. Even if we do destroy ourselves on the way, because I've said it, I'm not strong enough to say, actually, look, I was wrong, we're going to change direction. And that is the strength of leadership is the ability to change direction and move on without being embarrassed about that. That's really true leadership, you're not going to get everything right. But you've got to know when it's wrong, and be tough enough to say, right, okay, we'll do that. You're right, I'm wrong. We move.

Adam: Through my interviews with hundreds of the most successful leaders, I put together a list of the key characteristics of the most successful leaders. And right on that list, you said, don't be afraid to change direction along the way. We're for that flexibility. The most successful leaders are flexible, and adaptable, which goes hand in hand with successful leadership.

Mark: Look, it's an athletic sport. If you're going to run a business or be part of a growth business. It's athletic. And that's what good athletes are known for. It's not about running the race. It's about the tactics and the preparation for the race, running the race. You change your tactics all the way through. No winning team ever goes through the whole match with the same plan. They're just very good at adapting to circumstances throughout the game. You look at any type of competitive team same sport. Basically, the coach has got into people and taught them how to adapt strategy to different situations during a game. And that's what makes really great teams. Of course, you need to be an athlete as well. But there's a lot to be learned from professional sports and athletics. And that's how I see business. Look, I can't do athletics. I play tennis, but it's not good at all. And, this is something I enjoy like a fantastic and honorable sport, to spend time in and create things. It is a fantastic thing.

Adam: Something that you mentioned, as you were describing, where you really focus your time, in the early days of building your businesses as you're growing and scaling them hiring. What do you look for in the people who you hire? And what are your best tips on the topic of hiring?

Mark: Edge. I want edginess, mountain men or mountain women. So it's about I like people that generally have had a practical grounding, could have been at college, when worked in a restaurant, or have traveled a bit, they're a bit more international, works in the family business, helps. Have done something, you want people, if someone just on education, not enough, unlike people with an edge in a very practical sense. I also know I'm a terrible interviewer, I always do the last interview, never the first never the second because I'm an optimistic integral. I will see the best in everyone is hard for me to look at people, I look at their positives, not the negatives. For me, during recruiting, I always had great people around me who were able to be very perceptive at recruiting, but they were not like me. And that's part of business as well hiring people that aren't like you. Because you are you. You want to increase your talents and skills by bringing on other people that can complement your weaknesses and recruitment is my weakness really because I am so positive about people, it's quite a hard thing.

Adam: We all have blind spots. The most successful people, number one, acknowledge that they have blind spots, but don't deny that they have flaws. And understand what those blind spots are, and surround themselves with people who can complement them to your point. If I'm not the guy who knows how to hire because everyone I meet, I think the best of I need to find people who know how to hire, what I know how to do really, really, really well. I'm going to spend my time doing that. And the other stuff, I'm going to find the best people possible to do that. One of the things that you've done, as well as anyone is redefine the way that we work. What do you believe is the future of work?

Mark: The future of work is going to be very, very different from the past story of work because technology changes everything eventually. And technology is rapidly changing the way people work and companies are taking on workforces and employing people. So the future of work becomes a thing that is about platform working. And the platform working is what we're doing effectively is 1000s of buildings all linked together in a platform linked by technology where wherever you are in the United States or anywhere in the world. There's a workplace not far away from you. And you can go in and work there. Whether you go in there for an hour a day. When you're traveling on business and want to be in another city, you just use the network wherever and whenever you want. So the future of work is a percentage of people who will work from home, probably likely to be about 10% of home workers in particular people that are held there by family circumstances, home work's very, very attractive. Everyone else will still be in offices, but the office is going to be much more convenient near where people live. The thing that people don't want to do is commute. Commuting is a total waste of time, people traveling in a car and a train or wherever to go and use a computer in a building somewhere really doesn't make much sense. So people do want to work in an office, they do want to have community, they do want to leave home, but they want to go to a place that's more local. So this idea that instead of companies having big offices where everyone comes to the office, the future is about companies still having people, still having offices, but they're distributed everywhere. They rent space on a platform that people drop in and use whenever they want to. It's 60%-70% cheaper for the company, and super convenient for the user, who could drop in down the road. Or if they happen to be traveling can drop in, we have places in airports, central business districts, small-town America, small-town world, and anywhere you want to be, work has become a much more mobile thing. But productive work? Offices are great for that no interruptions. So it's going to be a changed world. Effectively, the change happened when Microsoft with Outlook and all the rest of their suite, all in the cloud, that's really where your office is these days. It's not a place that went a long time ago. So you combine that with productive space, wherever you want it to be, that's the future of the office.

Adam: Mark, what can anyone listening to this conversation do to become more successful, personally and professionally?

Mark: At any time in your life, it's always a good thing, to just take a bit of time, take an hour, take a few hours, and sit down and make a personal plan. What am I going to change? Where do I want to be? What do I want to do? How do I want to enrich my life and the lives of people around me and my community? What can I do? I think it's very, very easy. In particular, in the world that we live in today, to not do anything, you could spend your entire life watching Netflix, and you'd never get to the end of it, because they're always adding more. I watched Netflix, but I always wish I'd spent less time doing that and more time on a plan to see what I do. So what do I do to make better use of the time I have on the planet? And how can I change things? Now it doesn't have to be business. That can be as you said, in your personal life, What can I do? What do I want to change? And change is a good thing change refreshes, change creates new life, and you can get a lot of pleasure from doing something different. I hear many people say this, but I think it's true. How can I leave the world a slightly better place than when I found it? Whether that's for my family, whether that's for my community, or whether that's in business. What can I do? And if more people did that, and took responsibility for that, that would be a great thing. But it happens one person at a time. It's not a group thing. It's what individuals can do.

Adam: Mark, thank you for all the great advice. Thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Mark: Thank you very much. It's been a pleasure.


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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