I recently interviewed Mark Tritton on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is a Fortune 500 CEO and the leader of one of America's best-known retailers. Mark Tritton is the CEO of Bed Bath and Beyond, where he oversees more than 37,000 employees across 1,000 stores, and a growing digital business. Mark, thank you for joining us.

Mark: Thank you, Adam. Great to be here.

Adam: You lead one of America's largest companies, but you grew up down under.

Mark: I certainly did.

Adam: Can you take listeners back to your formative years? What were the key experiences and best lessons that shaped the success that you enjoy today?

Mark: Yeah, I mean, this searching back and contemplating- that question is very deep. But I think that for me, I grew up in a household where I was an only child. My parents didn't have a lot of money. And when I was age five, my parents both were at work and I was a latchkey child. And I've actually discussed this at length with them. I think one of the things that was very formative about how I became who I am was I grew up very independent, at a very young age. And I had to entertain myself. And so my sense of curiosity, and how I looked at things and how I kind of forged ahead to create friends and experiences all throughout my life has been one that I've done with a level of boldness, because I had to rely on myself. And it doesn't mean that I like being an isolationist. It's the opposite. I think as an only child, you really are drawn to people and engagement with broader groups, and I definitely am. But I think those years taught me to be curious. My father was an English history teacher, and he told me to read at a very early age. And so I've been a voracious reader of lots of different things in my life, too. So those things intersecting come to mind and wanting, having a hunger to really move through different portals and have different experiences.

Adam: A lot of the themes you touched on are going to be themes we're going to be exploring throughout this conversation; your work with people, the way you've been able to develop your own career. I want to ask you about your journey. You've worked for a number of major retailers, before becoming the CEO of Bed Bath and Beyond. You worked for Nike, Timberland, Nordstrom, Target. What did you do to rise to the top of your profession that others didn't do and what advice do you have for listeners on how they can rise within their careers?

Mark: Yeah, another big question. I think, for me, what I do, I think about it less about what I did that others didn't do, but what propelled me and what moved me forward. And, you know, several points out of my career, I thought I was done, I thought I was in the red zone, I was learning a ton, I was achieving good things. I could contribute. But then things would open up unexpectedly in terms of opportunity for me, and I think a really classic example of that was I was a VP at Nordstrom. I ran an independent company within a company that was a product group, had a terrific team, and really ran a very strong growing business, and was really kind of in my mindset to retire. I didn't have personal aspirations to be a CEO, or anything more, and then Target came knocking on my door. And, and it wasn't expected, I definitely didn't think I was gonna move to Minneapolis in my life, you know, as a boy from Australia, but the chance to work with, you know, 350,000 or more employees and work with, you know, an $80 billion business center and engage with that many Americans and that many categories just was so intriguing to me. And I knew that I could contribute. But I knew that I would learn. And I think that that's been one of the keys that every time I've taken a step, I knew that I was going to have the ability to add something positive to the circumstances, but it was going to generate learnings and experiences that were positive for me. And I think that the symbiotic relationship between giving and getting is really important. I mean, you're never the absolute, it's yourself, but you can contribute highly and you can move forward. And I think again, this theme of curiosity drives me and wanting to be the best version of myself is something that really propels me during that time that I made that pivot from Nordstrom to Target. We told our children that we're moving- they’re narrowly in college, we've moved with them all around the world and been bold in our moves with them. But my youngest son actually said to me very boldly, and he was about 19. And he said to me, why are you doing this? How much is enough? And I said, what do you mean? He said, you're doing well in your career, we have great friends here, you have a great home, you have a great car and work for a great company. What is it that you're looking for? Is it all about the money? And actually, my wife and I, you know, tag teamed on this, my wife said you know, it's not about the money, yes, that always helps. But she said to him, you know, I think that your father feels like he can do more. And this has opened up an opportunity, and he wants to be the best version of ourselves. And we're going to take the journey together, and he then turned around and said, well, the last thing I've got to say is congratulations. Well, for me, that was a really interesting moment, I was proud that he would challenge me and seek to understand but my own wife was able to express this sense of the journeys that we wanted to take and the, you know, empowerment and betterment of ourselves that we both were subconsciously committed to.

Adam: Mark, that's so interesting. And something that I try to share with audiences that I speak to, which really aligns with what you and your wife and your son were talking about at that critical moment in your career is, it's important that no matter where you are in your journey, you need to ask yourself, what is your definition of success? Now, right, your definition of success can be completely different from my definition of success. And that's okay, it doesn't matter if your definition is to make the most money or if your definition is to be the best CEO possible, or to be the best human being possible, whatever it is, have a definition, have a goal that you're working towards.

Mark: I tend to express that through a concept of having a personal purpose. And what I find is that I'm now 58, I'm still learning and I'm still curious. And I'm shaping, as I get older, every year, my personal purpose. I didn't know clearly what I was when I was 22, and graduating college. And I think, you know, I tried on some different things, and I pushed myself to learn more, do more and achieve more not through any desire to have a title or a sense of control or a sense of influence, just, I think, to have a sense of experience. And I've come to learn that that feeds into my personal purpose. And it's one of the things that I talk to my own kids around and friends and team members; be authentic to yourself, learn and evolve naturally, organically. That it’s okay that you'll change. But if you can find this Northstar personal purpose that- you know. Work out what drives you, and what doesn't as early as possible. That really helps you.

Adam: When listeners listen to this conversation. And when they look at your bio. And when they look at the success that you've had at Bed Bath and Beyond. They're gonna understand that, Mark, you're one of the most successful CEOs in the country. But when you talk about your journey, and when you talk about trying to figure it out, I'm curious about some of the stumbling blocks that you had along the way. What were some key mishaps or failures that ultimately defined who you became and how you became the leader that you are today?

Mark: Well, firstly, that's a doozy of a question. Firstly, I would not regard myself as one of the most successful. I think I'm a work in progress. I mean, my first two years as CEO resulted in a major transformational change in several companies in the time of COVID. So for me, I feel like I'm just getting started. But thank you for the comment. You know what comes to my mind is that I remember, when I was 24 years old, and I was a national buyer at a department store, I trained as an English history teacher. I got my degree in education, but I have worked in retail since I was 15. And I began thinking about early stages of personal purpose. I loved educating and informing but I also loved the tactile and real nature of business and making a difference, you know, through my personal efforts, and you get that through teaching, but really much more broadly based in a retail environment over time. And so I chose that pathway and did very well very early on. 24, I was a national bio. 25, I was just married, and I was doing really well. And I thought I was pretty cool. I thought I was, back then, what we call the yuppie in the 80’s. And as we remember and, you know, I had the cool job and I was performing and, you know, I found, you know, my soulmate that things were really good. And one of my vendors came to me and said, you know, you're terrific. You're smart, you're this you're that and I'm the national marketing manager managing all product and marketing for a footwear company in Australia. I was doing it at the time and said, I'm gonna be made the CEO and I want you to come on board and be my backfill, and you'll get to run all of these things. And I was like, what? And he said, you know, I was living in Sydney at the time, the role was in Melbourne, so that, you know, an eight hour drive, an hour flight, but meant living wages. Back then it was $68,000, and a company car sports car. And my friends were like, Tritton, you've made it, you are the guy. That's incredible. And I was like, yeah, yeah, this is really good. And this is terrific. What a big opportunity. And my wife was a flight attendant who flew globally for Qantas and she quit her job to come be with me in Melbourne. And off we went. And it was a nightmare. And I had not done my research. I worked for someone who didn't have good values, was not a nice person, and the company was in disarray. And I had just, literally 25, walked into a minefield of stupidly, and I tried to work it out. But I realized very quickly that all that glitters is not gold- that was the first lesson. The second was do your homework, and 3rd- we’re again back to, what's your Northstar? What are you after here and I was distracted by the wrong things. 11 months into their job of sheer absolute hell and complete guilt about relocating to something that was terrible, we woke up one morning, and my wife said to me, you know what you're going to go do today. You're gonna go in and resign. And I said, what? Because I just wasn't talking about it, I was so frozen by the painfulness of what I put us through and she said, Mark, you're smart, you're young, you're fine. A job like this is killing you. You're not working, doing what you want to do with who you want to do, it’s not what you want to work on. Go ahead and work that out. But you need to start today by resigning. So I went in, and I resigned, then I took three months off and regrouped and got back on the horse of what I knew how to do, which is buying and selling products. But a huge life lesson that I share when I mentor other people is to pick a great partner, someone that knows you and then can hold a mirror up to you and be honest with you. But also you know that you have to do your homework and, and you have to dig in to make the choice to the best of your knowledge. It's always sometimes you roll dice, but you have to have done more work. And so I was a fool at a very young age. And I'm glad I was 25 and not 55.

Adam: Mark, you shared so many incredible lessons. They're doing your homework, cutting your losses. In business school they talk about sunk costs. One thing you didn't expressly mention, but that was so evident in everything you said is the importance of ethics when it comes to leadership. And I want to ask you, in your experience, what are the keys to effective leadership and what can anyone do to become a better leader?

Mark: You know, my personal take on that is that I lean into and I've discovered, through my experiences, that being an authentic version of yourself in leadership or in life is one of the most important things you can be. I think, getting people to truly understand you so that you can belong and you can have a sense of engagement and be your best version of yourself is really important. And so I really strive to understand that everyone has a story. Everyone has a journey, but I'm looking for people that have empathy and caring and can show their human selves, and can understand that and gravitate to a set of core values that you can relate to. And so I think that the one thing that I've learned in the last couple of years as a leader to be able to resonate with who I am and engage with my teams has been the power of vulnerability. And I've had moments where people will transpose. I think one of the things you don't learn as you're coming up the workforce, as you get higher, you become more of a title thing than a living, breathing person. And it's harder to express if you don't start early. And for me, I want to be known as more than a title. I want to be known for who I am to the best of my ability. And I think showing my vulnerability and showing my honesty and my openness about when I'm happy about something, when a man is happy- or what I think and feel about things like diversity and inclusion and creating community culture. You know, the words real and authentic are really important to me, and they're part of my personal purpose again, to ensure that I can not only be there but I can resonate that to others and allow them to be their authentic selves. And use the diversity of that to create the sum of the parts in the business.

Adam: What can listeners do to become better leaders? You've worked with so many emerging leaders over the course of your career- what advice do you have?

Mark: I think communication is the key to success. So you know, communicating, we just talked about communicating a sense of values, a sense of purpose, a sense of self, but just being transparent and collaborative. This whole idea of, you know, politics or game playing to me is wasted energy. And I've really realized that some organizations, when that gets to that I'm out, I just don't want that in my life. I've had a few of those examples, and I won't name them, but like, I love the company, I love what they stood for. But the internal politics got to a point where I was like, this is not me, and I don't want the ascent, actually, I'm gonna go find my truth somewhere else. And I think that's believing in yourself, that you can move forward, and you can find something, but also that you're strong enough to have a sense of self, to move forward, your own point, but as leaders, I think, encouraging people to operate in a transparent collaborative environment for me, has always paid dividends, that continues to accelerate. And one of my greatest joys is creating a culture from scratch, because we had a lot of transformation and reformation to do here at Bed Bath. We had to lead the existing team and add to that new team players who are all embodied in a new set of values that we could work in. And that's been one of the most joyous and rewarding things that I've ever done.

Adam: And I'd love to talk more about that. When you joined Bed Bath and Beyond the company was struggling and you're hired to lead a turnaround. One of the first things you did was fire the previous management team and bring in your own team of hired guns. What did you look for in the people who you were recruiting and hiring as you were building out your leadership team? And more broadly, what do you look for in the people who you hire?

Mark: Yeah, well, that was a very difficult moment, I hadn't entered the business hoping that I would have a deficit in skills and talent. But I did. And I quickly realized that I could go forward faster without being encumbered by the lack of skill set and behaviors of the leadership team. And then I needed to move but you know, the head bolt was very clear to me. But when you say it out loud, like that, and other than comment, to me, it sounds like a revolution. And it was, you know, intense. But it was necessary. I think, the question, I actually said in a brief that I wanted, the Avengers of retail- it was kind of this typeface. But I wanted it all. I wanted people who were very talented and had expertise in their fields, they had to have understood the power and the benefit of change. You can talk a good game and say, yeah, let's change everything, but if you truly want to empower and enable change, you have to have a different mindset. There's risk and reward in change, there's careful prioritization in change. And if you've experienced that, that's gonna be a shield of armor to help you move forward. And then the two other things I really looked for was, firstly, that I bring that to the individuals as I met them, that they had to be not only a leader in their field, and of their teams, but a coach and mentor, and that we had to teach people to fish, we couldn't just tell them, you know, go fish, we had to work cooperatively to reinvent our company, our processes, our practices, our technology, and our relationship with the customer. And it wasn't going to be for the maker of art. And so I really wanted them to understand that power of collaboration and change. And lastly, that they had this sense of empathetic communication, and living values that I can relate to and that would represent who we were, as a company and as a leadership team, not just as individuals. That was the sum of our parts as long as your team would resonate the values that we wanted to share and we created a new charter of practices and principles in the company and I had to find individuals that I believed could live and exercise and coach to promote those in others.

Adam: Obviously, your deep experience within the retail industry gives you a big leg up in finding those people. You had many, many relationships, but for the people listening to this podcast who are trying to figure out, how do I build a great team? How do I hire great people? What advice do you have?

Mark: One of the things I would notice, I knew none of these individuals before they joined, interesting, a lot of press, like we thought there'd be a lot more Target names, and I said, the moment you look at my history, I actually haven't built the teams that I've worked with, based on just recruiting people from my past, I think that that has merit. But I think that's a single-note piece that I think doesn't do justice to what you can do. I don't leave what I did, just to disrupt it. But you know, for my own benefit, I still love the companies I worked for, even though I compete with many of them. I love the teams, I have relationships with them, and the leaders, and I value that and they do their thing, and I gotta go do my thing. So, you know, we talked about what I looked for and how I went about it. How I went about it was I got great recruiting partners, who understood my strategy and did understand me. I'd have relationships with them before so they knew the type of character it would take to engage, survive, and prosper in the environments that I wanted to create. And that no, I continue to pursue, you know, I made a ton of terrific people. And, I didn't employ all of them clearly. And actually, I was just texting with someone that I didn't employ in a role, who's taken a great job somewhere else, and I texted them and congratulated them. I had the chance to meet, you know, over 100 really talented retail people across the industry that I'd never met before. And so getting a sense of the industry, the players, the characters, strengths, and opportunities was really terrific. Again, it feeds into that curiosity pathway I think that we're talking about when selecting, you know, what I knew were going to be people that would bond with me, and we would bond together and create history. We've got a fantastic transformation. And we will write the book together.

Adam: And I think an important lesson for listeners is you were texting with someone who you didn't hire. And it doesn't matter how you connect with someone, what the circumstances are, whenever you connect with someone, they're now in your network, yes, maintain that relationship.

Mark: Yeah, it's interesting. When I was at Target a couple of years ago, we did an interesting coaching to future leaders on the power of network. And I have some peers who have some pieces of Target who are so stellar at it. And it taught me that I like to just have a set of peers that you can reach out to and connect with new values in talent, character. His character, you don't have to own it to like it. You know, I think that's the premise. And so I've been fortunate to have networked with tremendous people in the retail industry, in the entertainment industry, the tech industry, you name it, but, you know, I like meeting talented people. I like learning from talented people. And why wouldn't you, you know? It's a fun part of the role. So, as I said, I've had, over my career, the opportunity to do so. I had a phone call the other day from somebody the other day who I had an interview with when I was at Target for a role with finance, a very senior role. And they didn't get the job, but they're now the CEO of a company. And they reached out and said, Mark, I really loved meeting you. We met this time, and I'm the CEO, and I'd love some advice. And I said, great. So we had an hour on the phone. And with the head of merchandising and the sitting CEO, we just talked about not conflicting their business and some of the methodology I've used or what to look out for and we were able to kind of bond and support each other. I mean, that's free. But it's, you know, so worthwhile.

Adam: Speaking of free and worthwhile advice, I want to ask you about your best advice for retailers and for retailers on the topics of sales and marketing?

Mark: You know, I think the industry changed a few years ago. I think that digital was a powerful ally in this, that we used to direct a lot of traffic on what we wanted the customer to think and how we drove the customer. And I think the customer drives most of the decisions these days. And so you have to be agile in your thinking and open to how you approach them. And so, this sense of agility, while you're being incredibly resilient in the face of change, becomes a really powerful skill set to apply. And I think that if you change your reflection point, which many, many retailers have, which says the consumer decides, you have to be ahead of them. You have to use the power of data to engage them, understand them and almost preempt them, but you have to do it all for the customer, and when you build it for the customer, you will build the profit and the brand allegiance. And the other things that used to be the other way around, like, how can we drive x and y. And again, don't get me wrong, profit at the door and the financial success of our company is paramount to my team, and my role is to provide the shareholders and show them that if you truly focus on getting to know your customer, the experiences and the products and the services they want, and really continuing to evolve- the minute you've created the formula you did, it's an ever-evolving equation. And that is part of the heat and energy that I get from retail. In that it's, you know- I always talk about, establish, stabilize, optimize and actualize. And in return in some ways, you're never actualized because you bring your vision to an optimized version, and then you have more fun again, and you might go back down to revolve. I think that's part of the excitement of retail.

Adam: A key strategy under your leadership has been creating and selling your own branded products. Given your experience, what are your best tips on how to build new brands and how to successfully launch new products into the marketplace?

Mark: Yeah, I think it starts with terminology. You know, people say what aren’t you doing a private label on the side? Nothing. I'm doing something in my own right. What's the difference? It's like a private label- like, I need a profit generator, I need a price point killer, I need an item. And I'm talking about ideas. So I'm always talking to my teams about ideas, not just items, items can punctuate the idea. What's the bigger idea that you want to create? I think, you know, I had the benefit of working for some of the world's biggest brands. And so brand management in action, it’s what drew me to those brands out of the power, what I learned and what’s in my DNA. I mean, companies like Estee Lauder, companies like Nike, like Timberland, even Nordstrom and Target, they themselves have their own brand. And that the set of values, you know, the purpose of those brands did the same thing, the purpose, the values of the brand, how do you stay consistent with that, and actually treat it like a brand, rather than treat it like a transactional commodity, I think is really fundamental. And so having disciplines around what you will and won't do with those brands, how they fit into your ecosystem, and how they feed a true customer’s needs- that helps differentiate you from others. One of the big things that I was working on in Nordstrom and Target, having come from major brands, was you can build equity in something that you only have and the customer can only buy from you if they google it or they want, but they can only find it from you. And that creates a destination and engagement and trust transfer with a customer that can be very powerful. And so just channeling everything out and having the same as everybody else. Well, you're never going to win against a major powerhouse like Amazon, you need the uniqueness and a differentiation or personality to connect with your customers. So I think thinking like, you know, thinking like a brand and giving it the personality and the vigor, the pension that a brand gets, is one of those skill sets. And it also influences who you bring in your team and how you build that team, what skill sets you're looking for from them.

Adam: Mark, how can anyone listening to this conversation become more successful personally and professionally?

Mark: Oh, I think if I could go back in time, I would be telling young Mark Tritton to listen more. I was very, very watchful of what I liked and what I didn't like. And I've had Darwinian selection on that, as I've built my skill sets of management, an attempt to grow and develop. But I think there's a real parent listening when we're young we think we know and I don't think it leaves us open to listening. And if it works for you a couple of times, then you think that that's the formula and it's not. So I think being a sponge, soaking it all in and deciphering it and working out how it fits your destiny or your sense of self is really powerful. And I did a lot of that, but I know I could have done even more.

Adam: Great leaders are great listeners. Mark, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Mark: Thanks so much, Adam.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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