Look for Patterns: Interview with Marty Parker, Author of The Culturepreneur

I recently went one on one with Marty Parker. Marty is the founder and chief executive officer of Waterstone Human Capital and the author of The Culturepreneur: How High Performance Leaders Craft Culture as Competitive Advantage.

Adam: Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice. First things first, though, I am sure readers would love to learn more about you. How did you get here? What experiences, failures, setbacks or challenges have been most instrumental to your growth?

Marty: I started my career in the packaged goods business with Labatt (a Canadian brewer) and then with Johnson and Johnson's pharmaceutical division before getting into professional services in the advertising and public relations business. That led me to the search business.

There are really two chapters of my leadership life so far. I felt I was a pretty good leader early on, but I got into that role because I got results; I continued, for the most part, getting good results, this time through people. My drive and energy and the things that made me successful were now making me successful through others. And it worked for a fairly long time, but I noticed that there was a real pattern: younger professionals particularly seemed to be looking for more meaning and purpose and they were searching for things that I didn't know how to provide at that time. And even if they were successful, sometimes they left because "this doesn't align to my passions or values." And so, this became a pattern and a problem for me. I realized they weren't going to change and I needed to change as a leader. And that's really probably the day that chapter two of my leadership life began.

I started, first of all, asking people about what their passions were, what their interests were, what meaning was for them, and I tried, as an entrepreneur, to shape roles to the best of my ability around that. I also started to share my interests and passions and I found something incredible in doing so. There was a deeper connection being built and something changed – people stayed. So, that was a pretty big lesson to learn, and that was what gave rise to The Culturepreneur.

Adam: What do you hope readers take away from your new book?

Marty: First, that the world of leading people has changed and there's a new way to lead. Leaders today have to adapt their style to their team members and really unlock their teams’ passions and align those to what's required in the organization. It requires a bunch of different skills that are not necessarily embedded in someone who's just been achieving on their own and then put into a leadership role. I think a big part of what I'm hoping readers take away is that if they don't change as leaders, we may need to select a whole different kind of leader in the future. And I'm not sure the leaders of the future will all come from the same background that people like me or many other leaders did, but they’ll be more successful in many ways.

Second, is that you can operationalize this new way of leading. You can put culture at the center of your business strategy – envision it, curate it, and in a very focused and thoughtful way, design the corporate culture that is best for you and that will drive your objectives. People used to think that culture is amorphous -  you have a culture and you should be able to just figure it out. Putting culture at the center of strategy is a very purposeful, strategic way of using culture to drive performance. 

Adam: In your experience, what are the keys to building a winning organizational culture?

Marty: First, you need to understand your current culture and then understand where you want to take your culture. It’s not just about, “I’d love my culture to be this,” but also “what's the culture required to achieve our objectives and what do we want as an organization?” That's a pretty interesting combination.

Secondly, alignment. Ensuring that your leadership team and your organization have the right competencies and behaviors to support that future culture and that your systems support it as well. You don't want to be doing all the right things and have compensation or development or performance management that is not in alignment with those changes.

And thirdly, what gets measured gets done. The impact that culture can have on performance over time is significant. And measurement is not just about seeing where you end up - that's a bit of a misnomer. Measurement is about getting a sense for how you're getting to your goals and what the progress (or lack thereof) might be. 

Adam: What are the most common mistakes leaders and entrepreneurs make around organizational culture and how can they avoid them?

Marty: Well, what worked for many, many years just doesn't work anymore. For example, just letting your culture unfold and happen. It will. But what doesn't work anymore, or usually doesn't work, is just letting it unfold, letting it be an outcome of trying to get results or trying to do other things. 

Right behind that is the believe that it's too hard, or that it’s impossible, to change culture. It certainly is hard, but it's a requirement. And now, as a result of COVID-19 and the global pandemic, workplace culture in many more places is being changed whether we like it or not. So, this is an opportunity for organizations to get out ahead and say: “Okay, it's changing. How do I want it to go? How do I want it to look? What's going to help us? What's best for our team and for our future?”

I think another common mistake we see now is folks trying to do everything right in terms of their culture, but not taking the time to develop, train, and focus their leaders around the requirements to facilitate that change. People drive change, change doesn't drive people. So, you have to equip your leaders in order to make the necessary changes. Just talking about it won't do it.

Adam: What do you believe are the defining qualities of an effective leader?

Marty: Well, I talk in The Culturepreneur about the five attributes of a culturepreneur, but I'll say this: first is an underlining principle that leaders have to understand their own communication style.

After that, leaders need to create an environment of psychological safety. That means that their team members should feel that they can share ideas and share thoughts without judgment. There are so many positive benefits, but if you think about it, anything less than that and you're not getting the best out of your people. So, creating that environment is really important.

Then, it comes down to what we would call accountability. Leaders need to understand how to put together very collaborative, in some ways self-directed, teams and how to support and build those teams. The outcomes that those teams produce are much better than what individuals produce. It can sometimes take a bit longer, and so leaders need to be taught how to do that. 

Third, is leveraging meaning, or really unlocking each individual team member’s purpose and understanding those passions. That takes a lot of work. There are tools that can help facilitate it over time, but leaders need to understand how to unlock meaning,  how to listen to it and how to understand it. 

And then comes impact, which is recognizing contribution and not just outcomes - recognizing the progress (or lack thereof) along the way, as opposed to just the outcome. Businesses can make it all about the scoreboard sometimes, so this is a harder one for people to adjust to.

Finally, leaders in today's environment, where there's so much information and things are moving so quickly, really need to build an environment of continuous learning. And not necessarily in a uniform way – one person’s continuous learning might be different than someone else’s continuous learning. It requires an ability and an interest to take on new things and learn new things. 

Adam: How can leaders and aspiring leaders take their leadership skills to the next level?

Marty: I think if there's one thing, it’s get to know the people that you’re leading. If you do nothing else, really get to know them - understand what they do well, what they want to do, and where they shine. That doesn't mean that they can't be challenged, can’t be developed, or that they won't do other things, but really getting to know people is key.

Adam: What are your three best tips applicable to entrepreneurs, executives and civic leaders?

Marty: Well, I don't know how much this applies to civic leaders, although I'm sure it does, but I would say, first of all, understand the culture you have today because that's the delta, right? You have to see it to understand where you want it to go, where your culture is moving from and where it's moving to.

Secondly, I would say look for great people, not necessarily great leaders. Look for people who have a lot of empathy (who take time for others, who truly want to develop others or take a real interest in the development of others) and then invest in their development. People are not only coachable and interested in their own development, it's a requirement today. So, invest in their development. And it doesn't have to be linear necessarily - there's a blurred line between personal and professional development. People want to grow and learn, and that does all sorts of things to drive success. It helps with that whole aspect of continuous improvement. 

Adam: What is your best advice on building, leading and managing teams?

Marty: When you're building teams, first of all, look for patterns in behavior. Anyone who's done a lot of hiring knows that they want to look for success patterns - people who've achieved, and achieved, and achieved again. But how they are successful is also important. So, get people out of interviews and into discussions, talk to the people they’ve worked with (and direct the names or at least the titles of those individuals, if you can get them), and look for their patterns of behavior.

I would also say look for a values and behavioral match, not a style match. You know, one person could be left-brained and another right, or one introverted and another extroverted. All those different styles are beneficial to a team. But if you have completely different values, that will translate into very different behaviors and you’ll have difficulty working together.

And finally, when you're managing teams you need to make it safe for them. Make it okay for them to throw ideas out. The concept of letting others lead, letting them determine the objectives, the timing, sometimes the resource allocation, and making it really safe because when it's safe, there will be a much more open and free flow of ideas. That at minimum will lead to better outcomes.

Adam: What is the single best piece of advice you have ever received?

Marty: I don't think it was advice, I think it was just a reminder but it's always stayed with me: You are the company you keep. At first, I thought  that's maybe a message for me to up my game in terms of the people I'm hanging out with, (which I think it was), but what's so powerful about that is that really selfless, thoughtful, fun people, there's so much you can get from them - so much you can learn from them and aspire to. I think you need to surround yourself with people who do things better than you do, and who you really enjoy being around and working with. I'd much rather be around people who helped me bring my game up because they're better at things that I am, and who are enjoyable, who have something about them that makes you want to have a glass of wine or a beer with them. I think that's really important.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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