I recently interviewed Chris Bender on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today has produced some of America's favorite movies. Chris Bender is the executive producer of The Hangover one, two and three, the co-producer of The American Pie trilogy, and the producer of a favorite of mine, the history of islands. Chris, thank you for joining us.

Chris: Thank you. Thank you for having me. It's a pleasure. I've enjoyed listening to your podcast.

Adam: Chris, the pleasure is mine. Your first movie American Pie was largely based on your own high school experiences as well as the experiences of your producing partner. Can you take listeners back to your early days and share, number one, what inspired your interest in making movies and number two, how American Pie came together?

Chris: Sure, sure. So I grew up in New Jersey, went to the movies a lot back then, it was 500 years ago, when I was a kid going to the movies was sort of, you know, a key factor in finding things to do, or you know what to do. I lived in suburban New Jersey, not near the shore and so I just love going to the movies. I love storytelling, I love the power of storytelling. I love getting lost in the story. I loved comedies. And so a lot of memories, for me, were going to the movies with friends. And in high school, an area I grew up in, Los Angeles, Hollywood, all of that felt like a very distant impossible, not even a reality because not anyone I knew really was in that world. And then I went to Bucknell University in Pennsylvania. And that also was not connected to Hollywood in any way. Most people were going off into financing. And there was just sort of this inkling because I enjoy what I used to make, you know, like a lot of people in our industry movies with my brother, big, giant, clunky VHS or ski movies when we’d go skiing, and edit it with two VCRs. And I just enjoyed that. There's always the side of me that was interested in the world of entertainment. I’m telling you it made no sense as to how I got there, it was something I didn’t think I’d ever do. And after a few years of, you know, college, and interviewing for some of the more traditional jobs that I thought I wanted to do, they didn't have an interest in finance. And I was an economics and art history major. I just realized I really didn't want to go into the investment banking world. It just didn't feel right. And I had no connections, but just drove out to Los Angeles with another friend of mine. While I was interviewing for finance, I also just started writing letters. And that led me to a job at New Line Cinema as first, an intern in publicity, and then a floater. The first job was as an assistant in distribution to find fine line features. And then after that job, my boss moved back to L.A. and asked if I wanted to go and that got me to Los Angeles, and eventually I was hired by this guy, Warren Zeid, who's a producing manager on his own. And he introduced me to what became sort of my business model or framework for the company that I started with J.C. called BenderSpink. And the idea was to be a manager to screenwriters, who had voices, whether comedic, dramatic, something special about their writing that you could identify in their writing, but they hadn't written that sort of commercial sellable spec script yet. And that's what the agencies were focused on at that time in the 90’s; scripts that they could take out and sell. And the writers that, let's say were great writers, but didn't have those scripts were sort of left out of the system. So the idea was to identify those writers and then help them develop the sellable script that would start their careers. And if it ended up being something that you really were involved in the development, producing the material because technically you had a level of control. And I identified with that business model, I thought it was a really cool idea. I remember I asked him, his name is Warren Zeid, I said, well, once you have to produce a movie, how are you going to know what to do? And he said, oh, we'll figure that part out. So I like that identity with taxes, I didn't go to film school, I didn't have that experience. I just, you know, like the idea of really focusing on developing a great script and then from there figuring out how to put it together. So I watched him do that. And after about a year and a half, I became a manager. I'd been calling all the people who had worked with us and asked them to send me their scripts, their friends' scripts, if I went to a restaurant and the waiter told me he was a writer, I said, send me your script. There's nothing I wouldn't read. And that was how I met the writer for American Pie. He was a young guy who was roommates with someone I interned with. And the guy that I interned with said to me after lunch, he just moved to L.A. and was trying to get a job. And he said, oh, by the way, would you read my roommate’s script, he's very funny. He's a funny writer. And his name's Adam Herz. And I read TV samples of his- that's all he had written. It was a Larry Sanders spec, and a Seinfeld spec. And both of them were like, exceptionally funny and showed sort of his understanding of kind of being able to write funny set pieces and dialogue and capturing the characters. And so we met and he's a shy guy, he was a P.A., at the time. And, and we just started talking about what the hell he should write for his first feature script. And we talked a lot about the sort of teen comedies that we came up watching. Now because I grew up around the time that you know, the video stores and VHS tapes and renting and so I watched all those sort of teen comedies like Fast Times, and Porky's and all that mostly on video. And in the early 90’s, there hadn't really been any teen comedies. And so we sort of inadvertently identified like something that wasn't in the market, which wasn't being developed, which was just the classic sort of teen comedy, we decided that that's what he should do in part because we also had very common high school experiences, we had common sort of groups of friends that were really close with and still very close with, and, and, and experiences. And I had this idea about, you know, just the simple idea of losing your virginity and the high stakes that it it has when you're in high school, just this idea that when you're in high school, it seems like the end of the world if you don't, if that doesn't happen before you graduate, and we're kind of just joking about that, and how ridiculous it is. But when you're younger, and at that age, those are the kind of things that feel like everything. And, of course, the lessons that come along with that in terms of when you start to realize what a real relationship is with somebody. And so we talked about that, we swapped stories. I always joke around with people I'm talking with like, you know, that first American Pie every every scene, piece, joke, actually, maybe except 1 or 2, actually came from, you know, inspired by something that really happened to one of us. And so, Adam and I batted around this idea, we had a ridiculously simple structure, you know, act one they identify the problem, act two they all go in their separate ways to trying to figure out how to have sex and act three, we kind of deemed the Big Bang, as everything sort of falls in place for them one way or the other, or blows up in their face. And each of the friends, you know, I related to a friend, I had. In Adam’s case he would be inspired by friends. He had his, you know, high school experience. So in what felt like a pretty quick period of time, we kind of sketched out the different storylines. And then he went off and wrote the script and came back. I read it and loved it. And then- and there is an incredible story behind the sale of the script because we ended up with multiple bidders- Universal and New Line and Warner Brothers was interested and it sold for that high six figures and one of the great things about that job, working with new writers that were breaking, was being able to call them and say hey, guess what? How does a half million dollars feel? How does a $750,000 sale for your script sound and just listen to that reaction as their careers were getting started. It was one of the reasons we still have a management company at my new company, at Good Fear Content, because I just love that experience of introducing new talent to the world. And what was cool was when the movie was finished, and one of the first times I saw it was in a test screening, and the reaction right off the bat was just watching people like laughing and falling out of their seats. It was so intoxicating, as you know, someone behind the scenes and I was hooked. I was like, I just want to keep doing this, I want to repeat this somehow. And then I really got to see the process from A to Z, you know, literally from the writer’s idea to the script getting made to being successful. So I had a really intimate perspective on that process. And so when J.C. Spink and I left Warren's company to start our own production management company, we had that model in our minds. And we were fortunate to have it.

Adam: That's awesome. And American Pie is a classic movie, and you've produced so many great movies. I wanted to ask you a question that I would imagine many listeners of this podcast are asking themselves, which is, so many people dream of becoming successful Hollywood producers, and you became one, what are your best tips for those interested in becoming producers or becoming more successful producers?

Chris: Right now, in this industry, I think it's, for me, and maybe it's sort of my age too, but one of the most exciting times to date as a producer, I think it's because there are so many paths to telling your story. And now with the streamers, and this business model, that's changed. So, it's about acquiring subscribers, and wanting to appeal to all the different niches, suddenly, there's an appetite for not only stories of all kinds, but also from the different demographics, and a lot of the underrepresented demographics in the past, and you see that now on, you know, Netflix and Hulu, and all this. So, for me that, you know, the fact that the sort of scale of storytelling has expanded and now I can think about, you know, telling stories from all sorts of different people backgrounds, is super exciting. So, for someone coming into the business, who wants to be a producer, that's a great thing, because you can really tell the stories and aim to tell the stories as well, that matter to you and find a place for them because if you know you represent an audience, then those stories need to be told, in terms of coming in, I think it's just, for me, it was very important. In Hollywood it’s sort of this way, just, you know, finding sort of good mentors, whether you're learning from their mistakes or their successes, you know, I came in, obviously, as an intern, I look back at that now and realize that that was really, you know, in many ways, like, a privileged way in and you know, my view of how people come into the industry has changed quite a bit since I was younger, because there was this always this attitude, you have to earn your way and you have to work for free. And now I realized that that really eliminates a large percentage of the population, and that Hollywood should not be excluded and would benefit from if we were finding ways to invest in bringing people from all different demographics into our industry. So I think that's starting to happen. So getting to any position on set, I would say to someone starting out in the business, like just get in, you know? I didn't want to be in publicity. I didn't want to be in distribution. But those were my first two jobs. But those first two jobs introduced me to a pool of people that I ended up going back to get scripts from. And when I was a manager, that's how I met Adam Herz who wrote American Pie. That's how I met Jeff Reddick who wrote the Final Destination franchise. That's how I met my first clients, Glenn Ficarra and John Requa who went on to be showrunners on this is us, and directing, you know, a whole slew of movies, writing Bad Santa, all from that internship and publicity and that distribution job. So it wasn't, it wasn't a plan. I knew where I was headed, or where I wanted to head which was in storytelling. I didn't even know what management was back then. So it's like I knew what I wanted to do, and then just got in the door. Don't overthink it. A lot of times. I see young people trying to get that perfect job or work for that perfect person. And I think that can stop them in their tracks from just getting in the door.

Adam: Chris, you share so much great advice that's applicable not only to listeners who are interested in succeeding in the entertainment industry, but to anyone interested in succeeding in any industry. And just to highlight one point you made, which was when you broke in, you weren't necessarily thinking about your internship as an opportunity to network, but that's what it became. It became really an opportunity for you to become privy to potential partners, to people who ultimately help you come in contact with content that you're then able to produce and turn into highly successful movies. And to anyone listening, no matter what job you have, view it as an opportunity to network, view it as a place where you can go and not only meet people in your company, but in your industry and in other industries. Your experience is a great learning example, for anyone starting out or really anyone along at any stage in their journey, because no matter where you are, you could be an intern, or you could be a CEO, you always need to network, you always need to build your network. Something I always tell people is, you can never have too many good people in your life, because you never know where relationships are gonna take you.

Chris: Yeah. 100%. And in entertainment, what's nice too, is when you're doing something you love, and you're passionate about, the networking isn't even- you don't feel like you're, you know, you're not like waking up and being like, I need to meet you, you're meeting people, and just, you know, absorbing all this sort of knowledge. And then along the way, a lot of the people that you end up connecting with or having things in common with, you know, you look but you know, now I look at where those, so many of the people I connected with early on, are now. And you know, we're now all in different positions able to still help each other.

Adam: And Chris, to your point, you brought something up which I think is really interesting and underappreciated, which is, if it feels like networking, and if networking feels like work, you're not doing it right. And when you're going out and meeting people, and you go home, and you're exhausted and drained, you're meeting the wrong people. And when you are spending time networking, and you view it as work and view it as a job, compared to your experience, you're going out and making friends, you're going out and hanging out with people who become added to your life, not only to your professional life, but to your personal life. That's the way to do it. So if you're meeting people who you don't gel with, who you don't mesh with, don't force it. There are so many people in the world who you will mesh with. Spend your time trying to find those people and cultivating relationships with them.

Chris: That's right. The other thing I always say to someone new coming in is that a lot of people focus on trying to meet, you know, that senior person who's been doing it forever. For example, like someone coming in now knows that I've been doing this for a long time, like someone coming new into the industry, like don't worry about meeting me. Get to know that your peers, because as I was, you know, the young people in this business and a business that trades in fresh ideas and busting out new content, so much of what's going to be that next breakthrough thing is going to be one of your peers, and you have the best access. It's the kind of access that I no longer have. Nor does anyone who's senior. Eventually, maybe it trickles up to me. But there's an incredible power in being an assistant or someone young in this business. If you are networking amongst your peers, because that's where the energy is, the new energy is, where the new stories are, the new perspectives like I couldn’t. Yeah, we talked about this a lot. Like I'd love to develop a new teen comedy, you know, even today, because I just love those kinds of stories. But I'm not. I'm not existing in the culture that is experiencing it right now. And I would need to be working with a writer who just graduated or, you know, was a few years out sort of like I was back then with Adam Herz, and because really we were just telling our stories and our experiences.

Adam: Chris, I love the fact that you shared that and I love that perspective and that mindset. And I think that we have too many people and this has been my personal experience. Way too many people have the perspective that they don't bring anything to the table. That they are trying to meet Chris Bender or trying to meet the Chris Bender of whatever industry they're interested in. And in pursuit of meeting Chris Bender, Chris Bender holds all the cards, and I don't hold any. Whereas in reality, each and every one of us has something that we bring to the table. And Chris, you shared a perfect example of it. If you're a millennial, if you're a Gen X-er, yeah, you're probably not going to be able to bring the richness of experience to the table that Chris has, you're probably not gonna be able to bring the Rolodex that Chris has. But you're gonna bring other things.

Chris: I think I recognize your contribution. And I think in the end, realizing and not being, you know, closed off to the contribution of the next generation is critical for continuing to be successful. And stay young in my younger mind, I guess.

Adam: I love that. Chris, so much of your job is deal making. What are your best tips on the topic of negotiations and deal making?

Chris: That's a great question. I haven't thought about it in that way. I think that deal making, for me, it's tough because I think as someone who's creative and likes to kind of get into the emotion of and connect with the emotion of the, you know, talent, or writers that I'm working with. When you're into deal making, you almost need to turn that off. And that can be hard, and not to be emotional, remove emotion, and really think about what your leverage points are because that tends to be the thing that closes deals or gets you what you may want. And if you don't have the leverage, you have to be open to not getting it. The only caveat to all that is, I will say that- and I don't recommend being this- but one of the best negotiating tactics is crazy, which is eventually if someone is, you know, crazy and not seeing it and maybe being emotional, whether it's intentional or not, it can exhaust somebody to the point where they might close a deal in your favor. But the residual is they may never want to work with you. Again, they may talk to other people about how difficult you are and it'll affect your reputation. And at least for me, reputation and integrity are two things that I care a lot about. I'd rather lose money than give up or sacrifice that.

Adam: It’s so important understanding that any deal you make isn't a deal made in a bubble. You're always gonna have to fight another day. So if you win a battle, but lose the war, you've done it to what end? So I think that that's a great perspective. Chris, in your experience, what makes a movie work? What do you look for going into a project? And what are you most focused on once a project is underway to try to ensure that it will succeed?

Chris: I guess, for me, I need to emotionally- and when I say emotion, it could be you know, any of the major emotions, laughter, fear, you know, crying like, you know, elicit that. And so I tend to search for, even in, you know, the silliest comedy that I might be working on now, just as an example, when we were developing the vacation remake, which was a tough needle to thread given the expectations and and the franchise and Chevy Chase, and it's a series I love. But in the end, we really still wanted to make sure we were hitting some emotional notes about, you know, what people connect with, about what family is, what family vacations are, because that's, in many ways, what made the original vacation work. And same thing with We’re the Millers which you know, on one hand on the surface plot wise is about this family smuggling drugs from Mexico, but really it's about a group of people. People who were on islands and dealing with their own loneliness and their own problems coming together and forming a family and realizing how important a family really is. And it's those things that are even, you know, American Pie is, you know, really about Jason Biggs and this group of guys realizing that connecting with other people is more important than just sex. And those things, sort of like, the “what's it really about” questions is something that instinctually I'm always looking for in any project, and if I can't find it, then I know I'm gonna get bored of it. And I know I'm not going to most likely be able to get it made because I need that sort of the energy I feed off of. So good movies, you know, when people talk about their favorite movies, it's because it really sort of took them on a journey. And they got lost in it, and they connected with it emotionally. And so making sure that that's within the projects that you're working on is one of the things that I prioritize.

Adam: Speaking of great movies, The Hangover was a classic. What are your favorite memories from that experience and how did The Hangover come together?

Chris: I wanted to make a movie, you know, that was sort of a coming of age, for your 20’s. And that period of time, when you're kind of still holding on to being young and free and college and not taking life seriously, and then being pulled in the other direction where you're starting to feel the pressures of, you know, young adulthood, as that sort of, you know, well, what's it really about? And I had a script that my brother had written called One Night, which was a comedy, bachelor party, comedy bachelor party, where, you know, things had gone wrong. I was working with these writers that had worked on other projects of ours. And I was kind of begging them to do a bachelor party comedy. And it wasn't a popular thing to do because everyone saw it is sort of crass. And there were a bunch of party movies that were around town that were actually very funny by really talented writers. And so we kind of kept batting it around. And I just, you know, my problem with the script that I had was, we just didn't have a strong enough engine or plot. And so in sharing that script, and talking about the idea of doing a bachelor party comedy, I just kept coming back to there needs to be an engine, there needs to be an engine. And then without getting into the complications of some of this, what came back was this idea of a missing bachelor. And then the guys went off and came up with a pitch that was built around that. But for me, there was a lot of, in the story, a lot of pain in that story. And in that process, and what happened. But the initiation is, it's one of my favorite parts of the process, because it's sort of like that moment when you're like, oh, this feels like a great idea, or there's something here to mine that, you know, people will enjoy.

Adam: How have you been able to manage and lead people? And this is not specific to the entertainment industry, but certainly relates to those in the entertainment industry, but how have you been able to manage and lead people with big egos and conflicting agendas? And what do you believe are the key characteristics of a great leader?

Chris: I think, for me, empathy, you know? You mentioned sort of the big egos. I see a lot of that. Now, especially as I've gotten older, as vulnerability, and so many people in our industry writers, the actors, like they're really putting themselves out there in a way that even executives, you know, and producers, like, you know, you're putting yourself out there, you're putting your kind of vulnerabilities out there when you're telling stories and hoping people connect with them. So that can manifest itself in lots of different ways. Ego and building an army of representation around you so that, you know, it's hard for the creatives to get to you which they need to do to hopefully make the movie better. So I think, you know, for better or for worse- because it can be a lot of energy- I just try to connect with people on their level and understand them and it's what I like about storytelling. It's why I love working with writers and getting to the truth, you know, because the truths are what usually inform the best movies. Then again getting back to that, you know, what's it really about. The more truths you kind of hit upon the funnel, the scarier, more emotional, a movie or a story could be. So, for me, you know, when it comes to leadership at my own company, it's modeling that, hopefully, so that people realize that it's not about like what you might learn in film school, but more about really getting in touch with your instincts and then getting comfortable and pushing yourself to express yourself and your truths and the way you see the world because that's the most useful for a story development.

Adam: Chris, in a few short years, we've seen major social changes, which have in turn deeply impacted businesses. The #MeToo movement impacted just about every industry, but the epicenter was Hollywood. Since the Black Lives Matter protests, there's been a heightened call for greater diversity and inclusion and addressing problems that have led to an opportunity gap, including some of the things we were talking about earlier in our conversation. What are the best tips for leaders and emerging leaders on how to lead in today's landscape?

Chris: Absolutely, I think that, you know, one of the lessons that in some ways, I haven't had many mentors, other than the people I've worked with on movies. And one of the things that I'm now learning more is the importance of giving back; social impact, social justice, the power of stories, which, you know, has affected me since I was a kid, and brought me to, you know, this business, very much. Those stories are a part of our world around us. And so, I'm in a position now where I can help get these stories, stories that might affect social change. It's not only, I think, our responsibility, but it's a privilege to be able to do that. And so I'm now focused a lot actually, on incorporating that kind of mindset to what I'm doing. And so for instance, I'm an advisor to Cluster which is a new social impact platform, which is, on one hand, going to be like an Uber for volunteerism. And I'd met the founder, and it was something that I was actually looking for myself as something to do with my kids, as a way to easily find volunteer opportunities, and he happened to be creating that exact thing. It does a lot more because it brings together media and storytelling, and this app that will allow people to create their own movements. And for me, I see those movements as stories. And the way that I want to help Cluster is by helping them tell those stories, and helping the people who care about these causes, tell their stories, in order to affect change. And all those things that you mentioned, I think, are some things that Hollywood does well, you know, we get made fun of for it for, you know, the snowflakes, or whatever it is that people might say. And I think that's because people really care. And they want to do good, they want to improve the world, and they can't help themselves, but insert themselves. And so I think, you know, in a way, the great thing about all this inclusion, is that Hollywood stories, movies, we can leave the culture that's the soft power of our industry, and and hopefully help evolve, ways of thinking and expose people to parts of our culture that maybe they don't know about, and help get us out of the mess that we currently find ourselves in.

Adam: Chris, I want to ask you one last question before we go. And we talked a little bit about this off the air. We talked a little bit about this in our conversation on the air. But since you broke into the business in the 90’s, the entertainment industry has experienced numerous major disruptions, which have dramatically impacted how movies are made and ultimately monetized. What are your best tips for fellow entrepreneurs and leaders on how to manage change and disruption?

Chris: I think and, you know, since I kind of stumbled into it in some ways, I just really wanted to be a part of storytelling. I wasn't really setting out to start a company when I did. It just was the nature of the way things turned out when I left. I think that every massive change or disruption that I've seen- you can either be scared and stymied by it, or you can be inspired by it, because with each change comes opportunity. And it sounds a little cliched, but in my experience so true. Like what's happening right now in our industry, the streaming and all that stuff. Like, it's creating so much opportunity for writers to, you know, work. There's so many more TV shows, there's more TV shows, that means there's more opportunities for young writers to be writers assistants. Source young staff, writers, and once they get into that system, then they can create their own shows. So the more content there has been produced, the more opportunity there is for mentorship, for learning. The more storytellers there will be, so create, you know, as much as the distribution model changes, it all still will always come to me. I always say it's the script. It's the script. That means, you know, really is saying it's the writers, it's the storytellers, there's always going to be, no matter what the distribution model is, whether it's TikTok, or HBO Max, or Netflix, it starts with a story. It starts with a creator, putting something on a platform that people want to see. So, I always kind of take comfort in the fact that I'm the first stop before things, you know, end up on these platforms.

Adam: Chris, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for joining us.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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