I recently interviewed Nick Bailey on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is the leader of one of the largest real estate brokerages in the world. Nick Bailey is the CEO of REMAX where more than 140,000 agents across 9000 offices in over 110 countries and territories have combined to sell more real estate than anyone. Nick, thank you for joining us.

Nick: Great to be here, Adam. Thank you.

Adam: Great to have you on. You grew up in Wyoming. And you were involved in real estate at a very early age. You bought your first investment property as a teenager. You earned your real estate license at age 21 before earning a degree in business at Montana State. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What sparked your passion for real estate? And what experiences and lessons were instrumental to shaping your worldview and shaping the trajectory of your success?

Nick: Well, it's interesting you read some of that I think you're talking about somebody else. It's interesting. I think I somewhat fell into real estate by accident. But then as I think back and people ask me a question similar to that. It wasn't by accident. I remember it dates back to when I was a young child like 19 years old. And I lived in a community where there was a fair amount of new construction. And it was all the architecture for me, I loved homes themselves. And when they were being built, I'd go check them out and tour and try to figure out what rooms they were building. And so that was probably the earliest stage where I can remember that was just fascinated by housing. And what I realized is, even though that's what piqued my interest and caught my eye, that wasn't necessarily what the business is about. And then as time went on, yeah, you're right, I had an opportunity when I was 17. I was a junior in high school, I bought two retail buildings in the community where I lived and became a landlord pretty quickly, by the way, that was the coolest pizza place in town, that was the hotspot for high schoolers during open campus. And so I always tell everybody, if you need a cool factor in high school, become the landlord of a pizza place and get free pizza and I had more friends than I knew what to do with. But it was my first forte into real estate and at the time, obviously didn't know I'd end up here. But then I bought my first home when I graduated from high school. I thought that first-time homebuyers' 3% downpayment was smarter than paying for dorms. And that was just the start. And since then I've been to all different places in the industry. And every bit of the experience has helped me get here but something that I figured out looking back, my life in this business has been around two things, relationships and problem-solving. And as leadership that I found continues, especially in this business, it's still about those same two things as it was the day I started in this business.

Adam: Relationships and problem-solving and some great advice for high school students. Maybe you'll help us expand our audience to that demographic.

Nick: And then they'll call me and say how'd you do the downpayment? 

Adam: I'm gonna ask you about your time beyond high school, your REMAX World Headquarters VP, at the age of 28, and from there only continued to rise, becoming the CEO of century 21. Now the CEO of REMAX. What were the keys to rising and your career? And what can anyone do to rise within their career?

Nick: Well, someone told me early on, I've always looked to mentors and coaches. And someone very early on in my 20s said one of the secrets to success and leadership, is finding something that you're passionate about, some type of industry, or whatever it is that gets you excited. And if you can figure that out when you're fairly young and get a lot of experience. And what will happen is 20 years later, you'll end up with twice the amount of experience as people that you're competing with jobs, except the differences is going to be at a young age. As a top leader, you'll be able to pick the job you want in your industry versus chasing it. And I kind of shrugged it off and just knew that all the dynamics of real estate I loved, but they were absolutely right. And you talked about the century 21 opportunity. I was 42 years old and got a call about considering leading this worldwide brand and that wasn't on my radar. But it was one of those, I looked around and said I considered myself fairly young for that type of opportunity and I thought back to exactly what that individual told me. And they were right. And so I give that advice to young people all the time is, it's okay if you have to jump around to find your passion, but the faster that you can find it at a young age, and then get as much experience as you can, it's going to make the age that I am now a little bit easier.

Adam: It's really good advice. And, in general, I think a key topic that people of all ages really struggle with is figuring out what is it that I'm passionate about. And how does that align with what I can do professionally? And you were very fortunate in that you're able to find that alignment and find that at a pretty early age. What advice do you have for those listening and still trying to figure that out? Or if they're mentoring others, trying to help others figure that out?

Nick: I think one thing is, to make sure to look below the surface. So people say, oh, yes, I want to be in real estate, or I want to be an engineer, or whatever it is, but peel a layer back. What I realized is I was really passionate about relationships. And in the real estate industry, especially at the agent level, you don't sell houses, you really don't, houses sell themselves. And what I mean by that is I'm trying to get you in a home and you say, hey, I've got a spouse, I've got three children, chances of me getting you into a one bedroom, because I'm a good salesperson, not very likely, you're looking for something that fits the needs of you and your family. But what we are selling is the problem-solving or marriage if you will bring someone that wants or needs to buy with someone that wants or needs to sell. And having that trusted relationship is what brings people together. Well, in other businesses and I was an entrepreneur, when I was young, I had parents and there were little things that led up to it. I bought my first car when I was 13 years old. And so I was trying to be an adult when I was a teenager. And it's quite the opposite. Now, I act like a teenager. I got it all backwards. It's kind of a Benjamin Button story. But when you think back, what are the things that absolutely drive you? And sometimes it may not be the job at the surface level. And so I would say the advice is to peel back a layer and just say what gets you excited to get up. And for me, it was developing relationships and this kind of leadership role came up somewhat naturally. I think that leaders have it in their DNA. And then I think you take that foundation of that DNA, and you learn how to build on it, you get mentors and coaches. And they tell you what you're doing great and where to focus on what you do well. And then the other thing is that you're messing up to say knock that off or minimize it. And it helps you develop leadership skills. But I don't believe that you can just take anyone and polish them up to be the best leader in the world. I think that it's got to start with somewhat of some DNA and foundation, but also finding out what really gets you up in the morning.

Adam: Nick, you shared so much great stuff there. And we're gonna dive into a lot of it over the course of the conversation. You shared some great wisdom around sales, we're going to talk a lot about leadership, but just want to highlight the first tip you shared right off the bat. Peel it a layer back, I love that. Look beyond the surface. All too often we think, well, I love sports. I'm passionate about sports. That means that I have to work in sports. Well, what are you really passionate about? What is it about sports that you love? Maybe you're really interested in the construction of rosters. And that could be applied beyond sports which can be applied in building teams, in recruiting, and in just about any industry. Look beyond the surface.

Nick: And let me give you a great example. A few years ago, I had an opportunity to play golf with a gentleman and a big sports guy who grew up playing football and his dream was to play in the NFL. Well, it turns out that really wasn't his dream. He's actually the guy that does the NFL schedules every single year. And believe it or not, he does it in his basement with post-it notes still to this day, or it was as of a few years ago. Everyone thinks it's this complicated algorithm and software. It's posted notes with a lot of politics. But what a great example, and I'm glad you brought it up because someone that thought they were going to be a player and actually had an opportunity to go a different direction is still involved in the industry in the field that they love, but likely doing something that they're even better at.

Adam: Yeah, it's really figuring out number one, what you're great at. Number two, what you love. Number three, what you can do that allows you to make a positive impact in the lives of others. If you're not checking all three of those boxes, if you're doing something that you're not particularly good at, if you're doing something that doesn't fuel you, that doesn't excite you, that doesn't energize you. I love that you shared that when I speak to different audiences. That's a key theme of my message. Figure out what energizes you, figure out what excites you, figure out what fuels you, that will help you discover your superpower. You shared so many other great tips there, around mentorship around understanding that everyone makes mistakes. But it's all about learning from your mistakes, understanding that when you make a mistake, acknowledge it and use it as an opportunity to grow, use it as an opportunity to get to that next level.

Nick: Well, you mentioned the three things, can I give you a fourth? 

Adam: Absolutely. 

Nick: You don't have to have trade-offs. And here's an example. We went back a little bit when I was younger. So let's take that age when I was around 21 years old when I got licensed. So here was my schedule, here's what I knew that I wanted, even before I got a real estate license. I knew that I wanted to get my real estate license, and I knew that I wanted to buy a home. And you know, I was doing a lot of work on myself. I also had another small business. That's why I bought the two buildings and leased one out, and had one that I was running another business and I was going to college. You mentioned Montana State University, but I lived in Wyoming. So when I went to class, my first college class started at 7:15 am. But my commute to class was 200 miles, I lived in another state. And I was driving back and forth three days a week. And I knew I wanted a college education. And I wasn't willing to give up any of these. And also, I wanted a little extra cash because my wife and I started dating in eighth grade. So I worked in a steak house on the weekends, Friday and Saturday nights. So you look at all of those things. And I knew what I wanted. But I didn't have to give up any of them, even though I was doing all at the same time and selling real estate. And my first broker who I thought was going to be my first broker told me at 21 years old, a part-time kid would never make it in this business. And ended up I went to somebody else's office. But as a part-time kid, I was outselling some people that were doing it full-time, while I was going to college three days a week, running another business, working in the restaurant on Fridays, and owning my own home. And it just required a lot of hard work. And I would read my textbooks on my steering wheel, I don't advocate for that safety. And it was only because they took the speed limit from the National to the state. And it took another year or two to get it in place. A Montana speed limit was reasonable and prudent. So the only thing dangerous for me was maybe wildlife. And so that's how it all worked out. But the point being, number four is I think many people make trade-offs for the things that they want, well, I can't get the college degree because I'm gonna do these other things. And I just decided that I don't care that all four or five of the things were on the list, I'll just do them all at the same time. So I can get them all. And I think people just say, oh, that's hard work. I think it's you write down a goal, a written goal is a goal half achieved, I've always been very big about that, putting them to paper. But you don't have to make trade-offs if you don't want to.

Adam: Nick, I'm gonna push back on that a little bit. And I'm going to say, I'm curious to get your thoughts here. But what I'm gonna say is that you do have to trade-off. You just have to trade off things that aren't as important to you, aren't as meaningful to you, or aren't as valuable to you. So maybe you're trading off watching television, or maybe you're trading off extra time hanging out with your friends. Or maybe you're trading off relaxing that extra hour at night, or an extra hour of sleep, or whatever it is. It's impossible to not trade anything off and do everything. But you have to prioritize. You have to figure out what matters to you most and why and ensure that if you want to accomplish these five things as you are able to do so successfully, as you laid out so articulately. What are you willing to trade off that might not be as important?

Nick: Very well said, I agree with you 100% on that. And I guess as I think of it when I think of what I want to do in business and career and leadership, and how did I want to get there? That's where I guess you're right. I made those priorities. And yeah, I sacrificed that I didn't go to college parties. And so I gave up a social aspect. But like I told him, I'm a teenager now. So I put those things in front of kind of the fun and social. And I'm making up for it twofold today.

Adam: Which is a great point. It really comes down to prioritization. What matters to you? What do you care about? Where do you want to be? Make that your priority.

Nick: And don't read textbooks on a steering wheel. And for the record, I only wrecked the car twice and never did too much damage, and didn't hurt myself. So it all worked out.

Adam: Okay, good. Good. That was gonna be my follow-up question. Are you okay? Is everyone else okay? That's what matters.

Adam: Nick, you shared something which is important, that you need to have core leadership foundations, and then from there, you can develop your skill set you can grow. So to that end, what do you believe are the key characteristics of a great leader? And what can anyone do to become a better leader?

Nick: Um, so first, I think the way people look at what the characteristics and qualities of good leadership are within each person to determine. What I look at as a great leader may be very different than what you see as a great leader. So I don't think there's one answer that fits all. I do, however, think that there are some common threads that you will see in leadership, and I break them down. I like things simple. I'm not an overly complex guy. And if things get overly complex, I run for the hills. And I think simply when you look at moments of opportunity, including moments of crisis, you'll find that people look around and they're looking for someone to do something, to execute, and step up. That they can feel, even if they're nervous, but they can feel somewhat safe in saying, I'm going to follow the direction of this person, whether it be in a great opportunity, business strategy, expansion, or I've been in some situations where it's fear-based in its crisis situation. And people are always looking around for who's going to take the first step. And you're not always right, as a leader, but you're going to use your previous experience to very quickly evaluate what is your gut, and it's your core of maybe how to chart the best course, whether it's in five seconds, or you've got five months to develop a plan. I think you've got to build on that previous experience, and then demonstrate it. So I think that is summed up in one-word execution. People that get things done, other people look to say, I want to follow them because they get things done. And I think that comes with energy and excitement across the board. And so I boil leadership down to something that's simple.

Adam: Yeah. Passion. You can't measure passion. You can't teach passion. But every great leader has passion, a passion for people, has passion for making the world a better place, has passion for helping others has passion for waking up every morning and going at it.

Nick: Well, my definition of passion is because people can feel passion, it radiates in a way. And I'd like to say that my leadership can be summed up as, if you're good, I can make you great. If you're nervous, I'll make you scared.

Adam: That's interesting. Can you expand on that a little bit?

Nick: Yeah, I think that when you find people that just have the desire to want more, be better, I have to look at it and say, I've always looked up to my mentors and coaches, and then you find yourself all of a sudden that people are maybe looking up to you. And you've got to remember that that person that stopped for a minute and said, man, you've got just this desire to do something, to do more, you're now the one that has to help them come along. And so I look for those people. And I have a number of people that I personally mentor that I've known for 10 or 12 years and that I've worked with are just known. And it's interesting, it flips at one point where you're the mentee, and you become the mentor, and you don't even know it. As long as you don't ever stop being a mentee, I think you got to continue to learn. But I think when you find people that just have that ambition, I'll call it, pour into them because they're good. But if you pour into them, they'll make themselves great. But I'm saying on the leadership side, you pour into them, you'll make them great. You take people that don't have ambition, and just kind of want to get by. Those are the type of people that I say it in jest, but if you're nervous, or I'll make you scared because I think people that don't have that ambition very much shy away from people that do.

Adam: And that's universally applicable advice. And you're sharing advice within the context of who you look for when it comes to people you mentor, but you could just as well be talking about who you look for in people who you hire, who you look for in the people who you want on your team, period.

Nick: Yeah, personally and professionally.

Adam: Yeah. Yeah. You shared a great nugget, which is oftentimes, you don't know when you're the mentor or when you're the mentee. And it's one thing I've heard from a number of guests on this podcast, who have shared their experiences as mentors as mentees, one that comes to mind, Brad Feld, the great venture capitalist. He told this great story about one of his earliest mentors who played a critical role in his development and his success. And that mentor now considers Brad his mentor. And so much of it comes down to having a mindset that we can learn from every single person around us, doesn't matter where they are. In the organizational chart, no matter who that person is, there's someone you can learn from, they're someone who you should learn from.

Nick: And I would expand on that to say I had an individual that I reported to as my supervisor a number of years ago. And what I realized this person had a ton of leadership. And it was just very different than mine style-wise. And what I realized is, that person taught me who I don't want to be. And so I think when we look to leaders, and I'm an optimist, we look at and say other people that I've worked with, I'm just in awe of their brain power, their capacity, how people respect them, and I'm just in awe and respect these people so much. But then I've also experienced working with some leaders that I've said, ah, this should also shape how I approach things because that's who I don't want to be. And I think that looking at folk and realizing, you know, the mentor-mentee, but also just looking at leadership, make sure you're looking at the other side of that is not a leader that I want to be. And you can see because they're just coming from a totally different direction. And they still may be, quote, a leader, by definition, because they've gotten into a certain position, but maybe not the way that you think you should.

Adam: That's great advice. I really appreciate you sharing that. And to build on that point, bad leaders come in different forms, they come in different shapes, and they come in different sizes. Bad leaders can be bad because they're bad people. They have bad intentions. They're selfish, it's all about them. They don't care about others. We spoke about the importance of loving people. That's essential to great leadership. Many bad leaders really don't care about other people. But there are just as many if not more; in my experience, there are way more bad leaders who are actually good people. Well-intention, well-meaning, have good hearts, but just don't know how to lead. They were never trained properly. They were never given the right tools. They simply don't know how to do it. And they can be just as harmful to an organization's success. They can be just as harmful to the people who they are leading. As leaders who are ill-intentioned. And to your point, Nick, learn from all kinds of bad leaders, what you don't want to do, who you don't want to be.

Nick: And those are the people that after they have sunset Conaway into the night, people don't talk about him anymore. They do this at a time when they have the role to exercise power. But once they're gone and out of the picture, you don't hear someone saying, oh, I miss XYZ, they were so great. They were exercising power, not leadership.

Adam: Yeah, yeah. Great point. You shared a couple of great tips earlier around sales, the importance of building relationships, and the importance of not trying to sell someone a product that they don't want or that they don't need. And I want to know if you can expand upon your philosophy when it comes to sales. No company has sold more houses than REMAX. You're the leader of REMAX. You clearly have cells in your DNA that will live and breathe sales. What is your approach to sales? And what are your best sales strategies and tactics applicable to all listeners?

Nick: Well, I was lucky to find REMAX because I was an entrepreneur growing up. And REMAX is a very entrepreneurial-driven company. So even though I lead a corporation, a publicly held company, I'm actually kind of at my core more of an entrepreneur. And I found this organization a number of years ago, and we look at one of our philosophies is we are like-minded individuals with an entrepreneurial spirit. And so I think in sales going back to my example, that I can't sell you a house that doesn't fit your family. I think that when you're quote selling, you are identifying the need and whether it is a good fit. And I think when you look at at least the real estate business, it's very much a long-term business not only for the cycle it takes to purchase one house but most very top producing salespeople in our industry have a lot of repeats and referrals. Coming down to trust is so important when you are utilizing a real estate professional to help you buy and sell. So the fact that we've been voted the most trusted real estate agent, means something to people when you're establishing those relationships. And so I think, in the sales side of it for us in our business, it's finding those like-minded entrepreneurs, whether your agents are on a brokerage, or own regional rights to a country. And when you find people that are the right fit, it's not sales. It's just bringing the right people together with similar interests that fit. And I think in any type of sales, to me, that's the core and bringing a level of being genuine. Because I think people can feel that immediately if you're genuine or not. And there are all kinds of industries, I'll leave them out, people know what they are, that people say, oh, this sleazy XYZ in sales, and you'll find that in some industry, some more than others. But I think people that come with a genuine interest to provide something of value that they need, it's a win.

Adam: The less it feels like a sale, the more likely you're going to be successful at selling. Do you have any tips, specifically around negotiations, at the heart of the process of buying a home is negotiating, any tips that listeners might be able to learn from?

Nick: I think in any negotiation, everyone wants to win. And I think the most two that can be learned with negotiations is those areas where there's conflict. I have seen it because we deal with business owners, partnership disputes, and the equivalent of that in the personal world, I haven't gone through one, but I've seen divorce. And what's interesting is when you see these really high emotional times of conflict, it requires problem-solving. So even in purchasing a home, you've got to sell, you've got a buyer, and the sales and purchase of a home are extremely emotional. A partnership is extremely emotional, a divorce is extremely emotional. And so what I have found is, it is number one, it's problem-solving when you're negotiating. But number two, it's generally emotionally driven, not logical. And when you're dealing with emotion, when people get to the finish line, they always want to make sure they feel like they won. And I'll tell you the most successful negotiations, whether that be a success in problem-solving conflicts, like a partnership dispute or a divorce is when both parties get across the finish line. Neither one of them really felt like I won. But they both ended up doing really well. And I think where negotiations go sideways is when one party or the other is just determined they're going to win at any expense to the other party. And then it typically doesn't happen. And so I think in negotiations, sure everyone wants to win. But you've got to make sure that you're mindful of the fact that the other side needs to feel like they won too. And so negotiations, you're not just thinking of one party, even though you're on one side of it, you got to be thinking about both.

Adam: It's really good advice. And I think a lot of it comes down to not thinking of negotiations as a game where I have to win this game. There are real feelings, real emotions. And oftentimes, when the negotiation is over, the parties have to live together, they have to live with each other in some capacity. So you could win the battle but lose the war. So to your point, Nick, it's not always about beating up the other side and making sure that you have everything, it's about making sure that you have enough to be happy, they have enough to be happy, and both sides can feel good enough to get the deal done.

Nick: Yeah, especially in business negotiations, I think it's finding out what's truly important to the other side. Most people want to hold their cards close. But if you base it on relationships, you can find out what really is the core driver of the other party. And then you can figure out, what you need for the win. And what do they need for the win? And, to your point, once you get finished with a negotiation, when the parties can still be amicable, whatever level of amicable that looks like, that's a winner for everybody. I think a negotiation where you never speak again, whether it be a great business deal or something on the personal side, nobody wanted that. Maybe people might just say I'm not as ruthless. But I'll tell you what, in a negotiation, yeah, I've been called ruthless before because I think it's, you have to obviously, especially in business, you got to make sure that you're coming at it for what the business needs are and you've got to put the interest of your stakeholders or if you've got shareholders, you've got to put those at the forefront and do it in a good effort but not at the expense of someone else. That's when I think it's just a loss. 

Adam: Yeah, I cannot agree with you more. REMAX has agents and offices in 110 countries and territories. In your experience, what are the keys to leading a truly global business?

Nick: Well, there are differences everywhere you go. There are differences from Denver to Dallas or from the U.S. to Italy. And granted, there are ways in which businesses run and operate, especially on a global scale in a very different manner. And yet, at the same time, going back to earlier where you start peeling things back, you find in our business, though, that most people are generally very similar. For example, most people want to do better than their parents did. Most people want to, if they have children, want to raise them with their values, their morals, and their faith. Most people want to be loved and validated. Most people want to find meaningful relationships in their lives. And they want to do something that fulfills them. And so when you look at kind of those five categories, that's the one thing we found at REMAX when people said, oh, REMAX started in Denver, and it won't work here. It won't work in Chicago, we're too sophisticated, you're just the Wild West cowboys, or it won't work in our country, because the foundation of our faith is very different. Well, when you start taking some of those surface-level items away, you realize that most people want those same five things. You'll find that no matter where you go around the world, those five things are consistent with what people want. And so when you're able to take your business and serve those consistent needs of what people want and want to base their business on, that's how we have found to expand this brand and why it's expanded. We have a saying that you're in business for yourself, just not by yourself. And that's what I love the most about our system and our brand, is we have the most diverse brand in the world because we span so many countries. And yet at the same time, when we come together, we're coming up on our 50th-anniversary celebration. And we will have 1000s and 1000s of people in attendance. And it's amazing how we talked about all these differences worldwide. But yet when we all get in the same room 64 countries represented, we're all the same. And we stand for the same things because of the way this brand was developed.

Adam: Now, Nick, what can anyone listen to this conversation do to become more successful personally and professionally?

Nick: Be curious. And when you get curious, you learn a lot. I was the kid that my parents got a new car, I read the whole manual. I slept in one night, I knew how to run all the buttons. And so it's like getting an iPhone or buying a new car or getting a new electronic for your house. Get curious about it. Don't just turn it on and use two features. You may learn that has 110 features and still only use two. But get curious. The same thing happens with people ask a lot of questions and their experiences. And you can learn from all of these different things and then apply them how you want. But if you're not curious, you're not going to learn.

Adam: Nick, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Nick: I appreciate it. Thank you.


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally-recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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