I recently interviewed Bode Miller on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is the most decorated male skier in U.S. history. Bode Miller is an Olympic gold medalist with 33 World Cup wins, two overall titles, and four World Championships. Bodei thank you for joining us.

Bode: Absolutely. Thanks for having me.

Adam: You grew up in a log cabin without electricity or indoor plumbing in the New Hampshire forest, right in the heart of a major ski area, pretty unique background. Can you take listeners back to your early days and share how your upbringing shaped your worldview and ultimately impacted your success?

Bode: Yeah, I think, you know, New Hampshire is a unique place, it was kind of a bit of a retreat hideaway for a lot of hippies and kind of free thinkers in the 60’s, 70’s, you ended up with a lot of people who are qualified to be you know, in New York City, you know, trading stocks or, or running companies, but they they kind of defected based on that philosophy. At that time, my family, my parents being two of them, really, my dad comes from a family of doctors, his, you know, two older brothers are doctors, he was third year medical school when he dropped out to be a Woodstock con and, and we moved up to the woods, you know, really intentionally, it wasn't like we were a homeless we just, you know, got a squat someplace, it was really their intent. And, you know, the amount of focus and courage and kind of dedication that that takes is is remarkable. I mean, I have kids now myself, and I would love to be able to do something along those lines, not exactly like them, but it's just too gnarly right now. There's too much going on. And it's not feasible for me, but growing up there with them, you know, they were really sort of unique in that they believed really strongly in, you know, accountability, independence, self-reliance, those types of things. And so they raised us that way. And that that was a huge part of not just my family, but honestly, our whole community, our whole town, and, and most of the state kind of operated under that pretext. And it allows you to really develop those characteristics young. I mean, young, six, seven, I was going up to the mountain by myself, you know, I'd hitchhike and you had, you know, I'm sure a lot of stressful moments as a family and parents and even community in that that's the way they operated. But in general, we got away with it, you know, there were no abductions, and there's no real negative fallout from it. And it's an incredibly brave move as a parent to let your kids have that kind of freedom. But in the end, I think there's a huge benefit to it for the kids, because they develop this understanding of, you know, being responsible for their own actions, and also, you know, directing their own life at a young age.

Adam: What do you do to get to the top that others didn't do? You are the most prominent and most successful male skier in our country's history. Looking back, what were the key elements that enabled you to become an Olympic gold medalist World Champion, and the number one person in your field

Bode: I mean, it's a package deal. Most of that stuff is kind of unique in that there's no one thing that gets you there. You can be very skilled and not get to the top. You can be, you know, determined and not get to the top. But in my case, I had pretty early independence and kind of self belief, you know, really kind of intangible qualities that I think my parents and my community helped to sort of foster in me, but I really just stuck with it longer and more focused and more determined than other people. I wasn't particularly skilled. I had a good, broad, athletic background and sort of a base playing a lot of different sports and sort of understanding my body and I was just able to kind of play a long game, whereas a lot of kids were trying to get really good at 15 or 14 or 16. I was more like, I don't really care how good I am right now. There's not a lot of money in it right now. And there's not a lot if the end goal is to be successful on the world stage, and what am I going to do to beat all the best guys in the world and that's pretty daunting when you're young. But I think in a way it kind of fits because you can be like, okay, there's no pressure right now, but I do have to execute and continue to improve so that by the time I'm 20 or 21 years old, I can have a skill set that at least allows me to have a chance to win and be better than everybody else. And I knew pretty early I wasn't going to beat guys on things like, you know, physical strength, or physical characteristics I just saw, you know, Tomba. And some of those guys who were just, they were just built differently than I was. I was never going to beat them on that. I was never going to beat them on form or technique, because Europeans are miles ahead of us in the US. in those areas. They have a system that just drills it into the kids, they're just always so fundamentally sound. So I just focused on the mental aspect, I was willing to manage taking risks, the creativity of being able to see line and speed in places that other guys couldn't see and the ability to take crashes and not hurt myself. So most of my training was about injury prevention, and kind of making my body capable of taking more crashes than everybody else and not getting hurt. Because ultimately, if you get to the very, very top, you have to be realistic and honest with yourself about how you're going to beat everybody, because there's a lot of dudes out there who are really good in all sorts of different areas. And if you want to be the best on a given day, you know, there's a reason why 5% of my races, I won. And that's a really good number. It's like, you know, the other 95% of time, you're either crashing or getting your ass handed to you by guys who have a different skill set or had a good day that day. So I think I had a pretty early appreciation for my weaknesses and strengths and was able to capitalize on those.

Adam: And I think that's such an important point. For listeners, regardless of whether you're an Olympic athlete, or whether you're an entrepreneur or working in business, or working in any other field, you need to know what you're good at, you need to know what you're bad at, need to understand your strengths, you need to understand your weaknesses. Something that I tell audiences that I speak to is I'm a big believer that most people in life are bad at most things, or all are good at a few things. And we all have that one thing that we're exceptional at, in your case, Bode, you're an exceptional skier. Exceptional is probably an understatement. And you establish yourself as a household name in the world of skiing at an incredibly young age, you spoke about the desire to put yourself on the map in your early 20’s. You were known to skin fans by the age of 18. And you were known to sports fans more broadly, in your early to mid 20’s, during the Salt Lake City Olympics. And I wanted to ask you about something that comes with that, which is pressure, intense pressure, pressure on the slopes, pressure off the slopes, dealing with media dealing with the elements that come with being a major celebrity in an Olympic sport? What are your best tips for listeners on how to manage pressure and how to perform under pressure?

Bode: Yeah, I think I was fortunate in the sense that in the U.S. skiing is really only big once every four years. I mean, it was maybe even more so when I was younger. And maybe it's become a little bit more mainstream now, but not by much. So I had this opportunity in the World Cup in Europe to experience that kind of daily, and they have a different philosophy and different culture over there. And then when I came to the U.S. while I might be recognized and people would spot me as scary as it was it wasn’t like I was, you know, Michael Jackson or Justin Timberlake where really anywhere I went, I was going to be inundated with people who wanted something from me or wanted pictures or whatever. So that kind of crept up over time. And it got more, you know, sort of more mainstream around the Olympics and that phase. But you know, I think pressure is a perception thing, really. There's no, I mean, there is no pressure. It's an aspect of your mind more than anything, right? I mean, you could say there's tangible elements to it, but it's really about how you process information and how you view your obligation to other people. And again, coming from New Hampshire, our motto is Live Free or Die, it's really not a stretch to see that that impacted the way, you know, whether it was just my personality anyway. And no matter what my state motto was, wherever I was born, I would have been the same way or not, but it was definitely cultivated there. You just kind of do what you do. It's my life and it's a chance at the Olympics and I wasn't gonna be swamped by the expectations or the desires of the rest of the world and it’s a real thing. It became real in ‘06 and 2010 and in those other Olympics, but in the beginning it was kind of all synergistic. I wanted to show that I could do something. I wanted to prove that America was capable of winning. We have a history of performing really well at the big events and and really that concept was gentle in the beginning because it was all aligned and then in 2006 and 2010, you know, maybe I was more mature and had different different goals myself, but was able to understand that it's very natural and normal for the country to get on board and put their expectations on you and expect you to behave within a box and do what you're supposed to do, and what their impression of an Olympian is supposed to do and how you're supposed to perform what you're supposed to say. And we're unfortunately, a little bit maybe on the extreme end of that, you know, they want the soundbite. So I gave it 110% that day and made my country proud. And the reality is, athletes generally are doing it for themselves or for their own reasons. And a lot of them are inspired by parents or grandparents or some mentor but pressure, like I said, is in other things, business and stuff, it's really about understanding failure and understanding the difference; they're not so far apart. And I know that might sound kind of cliche, like, success and failure in skiing can be, you know, a 100th of a second, they can be one gust of wind, it can be one cloud, it can be so many things that you kind of, you get really acclimated to that. You just kind of adjust and you know, in some sports, I think it's much more difficult. And it's probably a reason why a lot of athletes in other sports have mental health issues, and all these other things that are more prominent than in skiers. Because for us you get your ass handed to you all the time. And you have to be honest with yourself, like, look, today, I did everything right, and it is what it is. Like the clouds, the wind, the snow, you know, a million different factors play into whether or not you show up as successful because you got a medal at the end of the day. And that, I think, helps me and everything else helps me with family and relationships and business, because ninth place is just a part of the bigger picture of the process of how you determine how much you focus on the little details, how much you self assess, how you judge yourself. And, you know, in business, you have to be able to grind, you have to be able to take in some cases, hundreds of failures, and see that as part of the process that leads you to being successful, if you're not a quitter, if you can stay with it, if you can tolerate that level of failure, ultimately, you probably will be successful to one degree or another. So, you know, I was good at that, you know? I took my failures hard and was upset. But then I got over it and just said, okay, what do I take away from this? And then on to the next one. So, you know, for me, pressure was never a huge factor. And that's been a really huge part of the rest of my life for every other aspect because I'm not terribly afraid of doing things I'm not good at because I see it as part of the process of getting good at those things. You can't just only do things you're really comfortable with and think you're gonna excel right away.

Adam: Bode, I love the way that you view failure. And so many of the great leaders who I've interviewed on this podcast and in general, have the same philosophy, which is that failure is really a gateway to success. Because if you're too afraid to fail, you're too afraid to try, you're never going to achieve anything great. If you're unwilling to experience failure. It is ultimately the ability to put yourself out there and be willing to fail that enables you to position yourself to enjoy the kind of success that people like you have been able to enjoy. And crashing is part of the process. And it's not that you crash, but it's how you respond to crashing, understanding that you're going to crash. And when you do, getting back up and going back at it. And that is such an elemental part of your style, and was ultimately a key part of your success. So I appreciate you sharing that with the audience.

Adam: I wanted to ask you, along those lines about your style, you talked about your background growing up in New Hampshire; Live Free or Die. And that really describes your style as a skier. You are known for your high risk, high reward skiing style. And I wanted to ask you about how that relates to your philosophy as an investor and as an entrepreneur, which has been more of a focus for you of late since you've retired as a skier. What is your approach to managing risk and what advice do you have for listeners on how to think through risk management?

Bode: Yeah, I think risk management. It's shocking when people assume I'm a huge risk taker because the way I skied in reality was I'm not. I'm not a risk taker at really anything so it happened that my ability didn't allow me to be successful in skiing, without taking significant risk in that one field. You know, I just wasn't good enough. So I had to take risks to be successful. So I discovered that early, I realized that in a sport separated by that amount, if you were operating at 70, or 80%, it was unlikely that you were going to beat another 40 guys who, on a given day have skills that are equal or better than yours, depending on the course. So I ended up with that style, if you call it that, or that tactical approach, because of necessity. I was just good at analyzing things. And when I looked at the field of World Cup racers and looked at my skill set, I was like, okay, I could go ahead and not take risk or figure out some other solution, I'm just not probably going to be very successful. And, you know, so I ended up being like, okay, I have to take risks in places other guys don't, because they're better than me. And it's not going to work every time, but when it does, I have a chance to beat guys who are better than me. And you know, that fits in lots of stuff, right? As long as it's logical, and it has to be well thought out, you have to be very honest, and as objective as you can, and not do crazy, stupid things and learn from your mistakes, you know? Certain risks that I took early on, punished me worse than I would have thought. And I realized quickly that, okay, maybe those risks are not the right ones to take. Or maybe that was just a one-off anomaly and I can take those risks, and it won't happen again. But, you know, the consequences in skiing are so severe, that it's a pretty steep learning curve. But if you don't figure it out, you will end up broken. So, you know, in that sense, I would encourage people to really look at what is success for them. That's always a unique individual, personalized thing. And then, what risks do they have to take? And what risks are in that bucket that I could take and that might enhance my success or might lead me to failure? And what's my tolerance? How many of those can I take and then still call it a success at the end? And I think, you know, for investing and for business, I really look at it the same way. I take a really objective- okay, what's the what's my success bucket? And how do I get there the most logical way? And if there's no risk needed, perfect, right? If you can get there and never are, you're in an awesome business, or you have low hanging fruit there. But a lot of the time, you have to take a couple shots at it. And, you know, depending on your runway, how much burn rate you have with your cash or what your risk tolerance is, is what informs that decision. It's really, more like spreadsheet stuff. I hate to de-romanticize the whole thing, but you kind of look at all the factors and then, you know, you’ve got to be honest. It takes practice and a lot of cases, but, yeah, taking a clear objective path forward, I think is how I did it, even though it doesn't maybe appear that way from the outside.

Adam: Bode, you were telling me off the air about all the different business ventures that you're involved in as a partner, as an investor, as a brand ambassador. A lot of our listeners are entrepreneurs or business leaders or executives and they might be listening and thinking about how can I engage either Bode Miller or another well known athlete or celebrity in my business? What advice do you have for them?

Bode: Yeah, I think it's a challenge, right? Because again, you have to have a plan. You can't just bring on Kobe Bryant or you know, Shaq back in their heyday and be like, okay, now you're a part of this, right? There has to be natural synergies, or you have to have a brand marketing campaign that really integrates that person's brand or parts of their personality into what you're trying to accomplish within your company. And for me, right now, you know, I'm focused on a lot of companies. One is SKEO. It's an app company at its base, and it's a free app that people can download. There's a lot of free apps in winter sports that measure things like your speed, your total vertical, you know, what your G force is maybe while you're turning or whatever. And in this case, we did take a little bit of risk, we launched this, you know, before Christmas, when we knew that there was going to be some little stuff, you know, you're going to get feedback. And that's part of that failure curve. Is that going to push people away from it enough that we were doing damage to the overall, you know, task list or goal. And we decided not that it wasn't but that we didn't care. We want an app that's actually more communicative. It's open, like hey, we know we're not perfect right now. Here's the roadmap and here's what we're trying to accomplish. And we think that's ultimately going to be a really great tool for people and open the door to new skiers and help more people enjoy their time on the hill more. That's all stuff that I believe in, because of my history, and because I grew up in a sport that I that I love. And you know that was a calculated risk and a lot of people would have said that's a bad idea. Some people would say no, we don’t have a hardware that bolts onto that. The paid subscription model that I think is revolutionary. And just teasing that out, in a way, was an important aspect of my involvement in the company because you couldn't just do that as a tech guy, people just don't understand, they don't know. But with my brand, my history in the sport, I'm a huge asset to that company that I ended up- I'm a significant owner of, at this point where I can say, look, here's why I'm doing this isn't just another app, we're actually aiming for something that's much more advanced and much more useful to the customer. And you can trust me on that because I am who I am. So ultimately, that's the perfect model for an ambassador or athlete integrating into a company that they really care about it, they have natural synergies with the direction of the company, they have great credibility in the space, so they can really make a significant impact on adoption rates and retention and interest. And then you kind of have to execute at that point. I mean, no company is going to be successful, no matter who you bring on, if you can't execute and have a good plan and a good model. So, you know, that's the case with that. So my ski company Crosson is again, the same thing, right? I'm building skis, are they the best skis on the planet? I'm the first one to say probably not for everybody, but for some people they are. But skiing is not a sport where one thing is the best- it’s just like a car, right? You can have a car that's great for one person, it's not great for somebody else. So I think, you know, those are examples of really good synergistic relationships between an athlete ambassador and a company. And then there's ones that are not so good. I mean, when you see, you know, some of the athletes you know, Shaq is great at it, right? But the general car insurance is Shaq on the general? I doubt it. Maybe, you know, maybe he is, but he's one of those guys who's able to stretch that boundary of what actually makes sense to people. He's just a big, nice, friendly guy. So, you know, people love seeing him on TV, and he's not afraid to do it. So, you know, there's, there's a big range of how it works.

Adam: You skied for different coaches with different styles at different stages of your career. In your experience, what are the keys to building a winning culture and building a winning team?

Bode: Yeah, I think individualization is huge. I mean, you see it in every sport, right? There's football players who just don't fit with one structure, they don't fit with one team, and then they go somewhere else and they're incredibly successful. I think that that ability for an organization or coach, or really a sport even to be able to allow for individualization and the application of that person's particular skill set- and that goes for business too, right? I mean, you can have the smartest dude in the world, if you put him in the mailroom, or you put him as a sales exec, and he's a developer, you're not, you know, you're not capitalizing on that person's assets. And I think that that's a huge part of it. And skiing, it's kind of unique, because it's not a team sport, it's an individual sport. So you kind of have to take that on yourself and be able to utilize everything, every coach, every organization, every race as a tool. Really, it was about me, it was a very selfish pursuit. And I decided to say, okay, what can I use this for? This is my current situation, this is where I'm at, how can I get the most out of this coach, or this group, this training day? And ultimately, you know, used them for my own benefit. And I think it might sound a little crass on the surface, but the reality is that's a really good way to go about things. You still have to be sensitive and be involved and try to do the best thing you can for the group as a whole, but ultimately, if you're not buying the right stuff for your skill set, you're not doing anyone any favors, right? You can fit in and kind of toe the company line, but at the end of the day, you're not going to be optimizing things. So you know, I think that that's a skill set of leadership and of coaches and business owners that is probably underrated, but the good ones do it really well. They know exactly how to put the right people in the right roles.

Adam: Along those lines, how did your leadership style evolve over the course of your skiing career? And what do you believe are the key characteristics of a great leader?

Bode: Yeah, I think that was one of the things that I got good at early on, by really addressing it and focusing on it was how do I assess other people around me? Better skiers, coaches, everybody cuz I need to understand the political systems to be able to not get myself into trouble and effectively manage my development. Also, I needed to see other racers and figure out how I could integrate things they were better than me at into what I did, even if it was not going to be perfect. How do I plug those in? How do I how do I assess and and then and it takes a lack of ego in a way because a lot of people that I'm so good on, you know, focus on their own stuff and not not take a clear objective look and analyze people and say, well, they're just better than me at that. How can I take that and make it useful to me? You know, I think that was huge. One of the focuses I have is an online Academy called ICL Institute for Civic leadership. I partnered with a friend of mine whose family has been in education for 150 years, his family's a steward of Dwight schools, and they have schools all over the world, very high level education. Their focus is on academics but also on leadership skills and, as you can imagine, from the name Institute for Civic Leadership, it's about how do you get kids with that mentality? How do you build that mentality into them? How do you establish grit and integrity and perseverance and passion, and then, you know, that piece? Honestly, I can plug in unique little characteristics that I developed or that I saw other people that I admired have into this type of program, where some of its academic and how we structure that but some of its conversational and how you load them up with work and how you allow them to take accountability for things that you could just as easily structure and put them in a system and here's check 1, 2, 3, 4, but if you do it that way, you robbed them of an opportunity to understand their own limitations, or their lack of initiative or some of these different factors. So for me leadership comes down to how you inspire people, how well can you analyze people without being overly critical. How can you inspire them on their strengths, and then share with them the ability to be introspective enough to see their weaknesses and their limitations, and inspire them to improve?

Adam: Bode, how can anyone develop a winning mindset?

Bode: I mean, you know, for me, it comes down to inspiration and passion. The two are fairly close together in the spectrum of emotions or the human element of it. You know, if you're passionate about something, you tend to be more involved, right? If a kid really loves to read, they end up getting good at reading. If they really love skiing, they end up getting good at skiing. That is a fundamental piece. And then the inspiration is layered on top of that. And sometimes that's more conversational with mentors or other people, sometimes it happens all in your head. I think a winning mentality comes from the ability to inspire yourself, you know, whether it's you make yourself into the hero of your own mind, or your own story, and you aspire to be that hero through your actions, or you put yourself in a position where you're doing something you love so much that you're so invested in, you're so involved, it's something that's on your mind all the time, and if you really dig deep into it, I think you'll find your own inspiration within that process. You can't do that on things you don't like or things that suck. I mean, no matter how disciplined you are, no matter how focused you are, if you hate what you're doing, it's the first thing you ditch when you have free time to go do something you do want to do. And that's all you can do. Growing up in New Hampshire, we learned how to make things that suck fun, because if we didn't go outside when it was freezing rain and all that meant you just didn't go outside that much. So I think that was a unique byproduct of growing up in that area, that I got good at making things fun that maybe other people were like, how are you enjoying that? But it allowed me to have that enjoyment, that passion, that enthusiasm for things that I knew I had to do. And I could kind of plug that into almost anything I faced. I think maybe it’s not a really easy thing for a lot of people to do, but I luckily had an upbringing that allowed me to develop that and it was a huge part of my success.

Adam: Bode, I think that's great advice. And something that I tell audiences that I speak to is, when you're trying to figure out what to do in life, you want to try to check off three boxes. Number one, find something that you're really good at. Number two, find something that you're really passionate about. And number three, find something that is going to help you make a positive difference in the lives of others. And if you can find something that allows you to do all three of those things, you know, you found it, you know? That's it. It doesn't feel like work, it doesn't feel like a job. Every minute you're spending doing your vocation, every minute you're spending dedicated to your craft, you're energized, you're not drained. And to your point, so much of it is connecting what you're good at with what you're passionate about. And hopefully, you can do that in an area where you bring joy to others and Bode, you clearly have brought a lot of joy to millions of fans around the country and around the world. And thank you for all the great advice that you shared, and for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Bode: Yeah, absolutely.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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