I recently interviewed Ryan Murphy on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is the youngest mentor on the show so far, but in his 24 years he has accomplished more than most of us can dream of achieving in a lifetime. Ryan Murphy is one of the best swimmers in the world. Winner of three Olympic gold medals, and the world record holder in the 100 meter backstroke, Ryan is also a graduate of one of the top business schools in the country, HAAS at UC Berkeley, and is gearing up for the 2020 Summer Olympics. Ryan, thank you for joining us.

Ryan: Of course, Adam. Thanks for having me.

Adam: It was almost four years ago, but what were the highlights of your Olympic experience? And can you give the 99.9% of us who will never get there an inside look of what it was like? My athletic career peaked as a high school baseball player, so unfortunately, I'll never have that experience.

Ryan: There's no shame in that. I would say honestly, the Olympic experience starts- I mean, it started two years out of the Olympics. So like, me and my coach are big planners. So we like to sit down, kind of like talk through what's worked in the past; what do we think we could do better, and kind of just like plan out the full season. And so like when I did that with, with my coach Dave Durden, who's actually going to be the Olympic head for for 2020, you know, we, we went down and we just kind of broke it down like step by step, you know? Like, nutrition wise, Ryan, you can be a little bit better in this area. Sleep wise, you know, like, let's make sure we're getting eight to nine to ten hours a night of sleep recovery, but you gotta, you've got to make sure you're staying on top of massage, PT, foam rolling, yoga. And then in the water it's like okay, like, we're going to do some aerobic work to make sure that your capacity is really high at the beginning of the year, then we're going to kind of like spear that down to a little bit more race specific type work as we get into the April, May, hopefully so I'm really good in June and make the team go to the Olympics. And so that was kind of the plan and we hit it every every step of the way, which was awesome. And then really getting into the Olympic experience. So the Olympic Trials is literally, I think it was five weeks before the Olympics. So Olympic Trials is a total barnburner for the US like you, you go in and you have to be top two in that heat at that time. And that's your only shot to make the Olympics. So it's really, really pressure packed. So I went in my first race. That Olympic Trial was 100 back. And that field was, was really, really stacked. I think we had three guys in the top five in the world from the previous year. And so it was, it was really, it was very pressure packed. And so those guys going just going through the names it was Matt Grevers, he had won the Olympic gold and in 2012 was one 10th away from the world record. David Palmer. He was 31 searching for his first Olympic team, and he had had an incredible season. A couple weeks before the Olympic Trials he went 50 to four. So he was point four off the record. And then there was me; the little college kid. And so I went in and, you know, I was kind of fearless. I was just like, all right, like, let's do this. And luckily that one turned out in my favor, the 200 back turned out in my favor. And then we're on to the Olympics. So what I really appreciated about the Olympics is our team was just a really good mix of veterans and young guys like we're at the top we had, we had Michael Phelps, Ryan Lochte, Nathan Adrian, guys that had been there before, won a ton of times at the Olympics, and we could really just kind of like hide in their shadow, like and that's really what we did. Like we would walk into the pool, Phelps would lead us in ,and we'd all just kind of walk behind them and, and it really just gave us a lot of confidence because every single person stopped what they were doing. It didn't matter if they were an athlete, a coach, a volunteer, an IOC official, every single person was interested in what Phelps was doing. And so we were just able to draw a ton of confidence from having a guy like that on our team, and so it was just really cool to get to know those guys on a personal level. And competing at that level was unlike any experience I've ever had.

Adam: Can you talk a little bit more about that? You know, swimming is often thought of as an individual sport, but you have teammates, I mean, you competed with your teammates while you were at Berkeley, and obviously with Team USA. What are the key characteristics of a great teammate abdd what should people who are not necessarily competitive athletes, but who work in team settings, understand what really matters when it comes to being a great teammate?

Ryan: Oh, yeah, I mean, I think every one of those guys has a little bit of a different leadership style. You know, like Phelps was a guy who would stand up in front of the room. He didn't want to just give away all the information he had, you know, like he was someone who, when he was like, “Okay, if, if you've got questions about the Olympic experience, think about it. Come up, talk to me, like, I'm happy to talk about anything with you.” A guy like Nathan Adrian is really just about making sure everyone feels comfortable socially. So he wants everyone to be comfortable with who they are. And he thinks that having those organic interactions and not having any social anxiety in the setting is what's going to help push the team to a big performance. So everyone has a little bit of a different leadership style. I think, in terms of me and my experience, it's really about just trying to find everyone's strengths. Like, not everyone is gonna think about things the same way. They're not gonna be motivated by the same things. So it's really just about trying to try to be perceptive and figuring out what makes each person tick. And then how can you get the most out of the people surrounding you. And if you've got a bunch of us, in our case, 30 guys, that are all hyper motivated, and you know how to tap into that motivation, like that's gonna be a pretty killer group. And so that's kind of my philosophy on it.

Adam: Can you talk a little bit more about the role that coaching has played in helping you get to where you are today? What do you think makes a great coach in what makes a great leader?

Ryan: Yeah, I think in my sport, just given the age gap between the coaches and the swimmers, I think a coach, really, they have to be a great role model. So in Dave Durbin's case, he's a guy who I look up to a lot, you know, like he thinks about things the right way. He's very moral, ethical, like he is. And so I look up to that. And then in terms of leadership, like, he knows that the guy who is maybe the 30th most talented person on the team is no less important than swimmer number one, that the guy that's gonna be scoring all the points, every single person can kind of fit into a role. And so like, identifying what each person's strengths are like, they could just be a really funny guy, that everyone wants to be around on the pullback, and that's something that brings a ton of value to the team. So I mean, the coaches play a huge part in our success.

Adam: What's your philosophy on how to develop a winning mindset?

Ryan: Well, that’s a loaded one. It is something that I love researching, because I don't think there's much of a difference between a win-big athlete versus CEO of a Fortune 500 company, versus like the best bus driver in the district. I think everyone, every single one of those people thinks about things in a very similar way. And so a winning mindset for me is just someone that is relentless in the pursuit of greatness. And that greatness can be defined in any sort of way, depending on what industry you're in.

Adam: Ryan, what inspired your love for swimming and how have you kept your passion for swimming burning while avoiding burnout?

Ryan: That's a solid one. And that's a solid question. And that's, that's always a work in progress. So I would say my love for swimming really. I mean, I started swimming in summer league. So I started when I was four. And I really did that because my older brother and sister were selected. And I grew up in Florida. So it was really hot in the summers. So we just loved going to the border called out. And you know from there it kind of tapped into my competitive drive. So I remember, I was always that kid that hated training. When I first started, I would make up an excuse every single day to get out of the practice. And there was one day the coaches were like, okay, Ryan, we're picking the final spot for our relay. And it's between you and Billy. So you guys are going to race. It's 25 free to see who gets on this relay. And I stood up out of my mom's lap, my migraine that I had complained about all morning, all of a sudden went away. And when I did the 25 free I got on the relay with my older brother and so I think it was really it was the competitive drive that really sparked the interest for me. And it was, everything was measurable, you know? Like the times are on a scoreboard. And so that's something that I couldn't get in any other sport. Like in soccer, that was another sport I played, it was really hard to tell when I was getting better because everything is relative, you know? Like you could be on a, just a really stacked team and be the worst person on that team or you'd be on a terrible team and be the best person on there on that team. Your talent level’s the same, it's just a very relative sport, man. So I loved swimming. It's just very, very measurable. And then in terms of keeping the spark alive, it honestly comes down to having good people around me. So at the top, like having a coach that recognizes, like, when to push me, when to maybe pull back a little bit. That's something that is huge. And then having teammates that are also very, very driven to be the absolute best they can be. So, I mean, so it in terms of keeping the spark alive, it honestly comes down to a culture and just being around people that that can motivate you,

Adam: Ryan, a constant theme that I'm hearing, both in our conversation and just something that I know about you and just from our previous conversations and understanding your history, is you're all about pushing your comfort zone, pushing your comfort zone as an athlete, pushing your comfort zone as a student who went to Berkeley, and not only went to Berkeley but went to HAAS, which is incredibly competitive. How can listeners push their comfort zones and why is it so important?

Ryan: Yeah, I think my view on it is, maybe a little bit different than some people. I think some people pick, they pick one thing and they're like, oh I'm going to be the absolute best I can be in this one thing. But my view is it's really hard to turn motivation on and off. And so like, I try to use it, Like when I was in college I tried to use the classroom as a way to motivate my swimming and my swimming to motivate the classroom. And so like I'm inspired by people, I want to be around really motivated, really successful people in every aspect of my life. And so like I'd go to the classroom, and there I'd sit next to a kid who's talking about the the startup that that he has, I go to the pool, I'd be training next to Nathan Adrian or Tom Shields, Josh Bruno, Jacob Pepe, all guys that ended up going to the Olympics. And so that motivation keeps on being fed differently in different parts of my life. And it all just kind of, it's a cumulative effect, you know, so that's kind of the way I view it.

Adam: You've competed against the best athletes in the world. You are one of the best athletes in the world. How much of success is a byproduct of natural talent, and how much of it is a byproduct of your ability to access the talent that you have through your worth it work ethic, your drive, coachability and everything else?

Ryan: Yeah, I mean, I think there's definitely people that have gone really far on natural talent. For example, I think, I honestly think you could be, you know, probably a top three college swimmer just based on natural talent. But I think in order to get on something like the Olympic podium, you've to really, really grind it and you've got to have people around you that are willing to grind. So one of the things that I think about a lot is, I want to be around people that can match my energy intensity and match by work ethic, because that's what helps me raise my level. And so like, in Dave Durden, like Dave is a guy that I know can outwork 99.9% of the population. And so that's a guy I want to be around because I know he's putting as much into writing a practice as I am into competing in that practice. And so like, I think in order to get to that upper echelon, you do need help, you need help from some experts in their field, from experts in the coaching field, experts in the physical therapy field, experts in the strength and conditioning field. It really it takes a village and then you've got to be willing to put in the work and to listen to those people and really just be ready that to run through a wall when they want you to

Adam: Along those lines, and you touched upon it a little bit in the beginning of our conversation, I'd love to explore in a little bit more detail. Your daily routine, especially now that you're preparing for the Olympics again, can you talk a little bit more depth about what you're doing day in and day out when it comes to fitness and diet and sleep and recovery and everything that it takes to become a world champion athlete?

Ryan: For sure. Yeah, and this is another loaded question. It's another thing that's kind of a work in progress throughout the season. So like, I'll start with nutrition because I think that's one of the things that kind of fluctuates the most. So, nutrition is really just based on how the training is. So like at the beginning of the season, we're gonna be doing more aerobic style work, maybe a little bit less than that in the weight room. And so it's, it's just a lot, it's just a lot of yards, a lot of meters, just a lot of swimming. And that heart rate is probably going to be between 100 to 150 most of the time. And so in order to combat overtraining, that's when I jacked up my carbs a lot. So like instead of, instead of having 400 grams of carbs a day, I'm trying to hit 500 grams of carbs a day, at that time, and then that really carb heavy diet, it decreases a little bit throughout the season as we get a little bit more specific into into race specific work. And so as we get to that, I'm really trying to hit like 350 to 400 grams of carbs a day, and around 150 grams of protein a day and about 50 to 70 grams of fat per day. And that's stuff that I try to track and stay really strict on in terms of the recovery, so I do physical therapy. Now I don't have any injuries, that that's really just preventative work. So I do physical therapy once a week. I do massages once a week and that's really just how my muscles recover from the practices. In terms of sleep. I'm trying to hit you know, at least eight hours, ideally closer to nine or 10. And then the mental side, you know, I get the same way that I do physical therapy for preventative work. I see sports psychologists for preventative work on the mental side, because you've seen what's happened to people in the Olympic years. It's a ton of pressure that goes into competing at the highest level. And like I want to stay in front of that, I don't want to be in a point where, where I snap and I've got to, you know, kind of try to organize all this stuff like while I'm in a very mentally weak state, and so I'm staying ahead of that as well. And then in the water, so we'll go to practice once a day on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. We'll also hit a weightlifting session on Monday, Wednesday, Friday. And then Tuesday, Thursdays are really our intense days in the water. So we'll go eight to 11 in the water Tuesday, Thursday, Saturday.

Adam: I'm going to ask you about how you manage pressure in a couple minutes but first, I want to ask you about motivation. How do you motivate yourself on the days you don't feel motivated? And this is a question that I'll ask other guests but I'm really interested in getting your perspective because a day for you is a lot more intense than a day for most of the rest of us, no matter how intense our days are, you're going all in 110% physically, mentally, and nutritionally. I mean, you just described to our listeners, what you're doing every single day. What happens when you wake up and you're just not feeling it? How do you get there?

Ryan: Yeah. So, I mean, I think honestly, I have to, like, draw on experience in those days. So there's, I mean, there've been times where, over the course of my 20 year swimming career where I've woken up and I did not want to go to practice. And so I didn't and I felt just this immense amount of guilt. And so that really just ate at me like the rest of the day and it even carried into the next day. And I've had times where I've woken up, don't want to go to practice, and I just forced myself to get out of bed and I go basically every single time, like throughout that first hour of practice, like I'm still like, I don't want to be here, then the competitiveness starts to kick in, and then I start looking at my teammates and I start feeding off of their energy, and nine times out of 10 I feel really good that I went to the practice. And so now it's just really second nature. Like, it's not going to be that I'm motivated to do all of this every single day, but I just know how I felt in the past when I haven't done it and it's pretty consistent, that I have a bad feeling towards myself the rest of the day. And so I just gotta get up and do it.

Adam: I know the feeling. I, on a much less high profile level if that's the word I'm trying to search for the right words here, but I do writing and I do speaking but I don't always find the right words to say. I think about the days that I don't feel motivated to work out and I always pull a quote from David Halberstam who's, in my view, as great a writer as there's ever been. David Halberstam had a quote that he would pull. And the quote was actually from Dr. J. Julius Erving who said, “Being a professional is doing what you love to do on the days you don't feel motivated.” And totally, if you love working out, you might not feel motivated to do it every day. And I personally love working out. I don't feel motivated to do it every day. But on the days I don't feel motivated. I just think about that quote, when I don't feel like writing or I don't feel like doing something that I just love doing. I just pulled to that feeling and power through it. So it's interesting commentary.

Ryan: And I think it's different for everyone. You know, like there's always something you could turn to to get that set, quick fire motivation, just that little bit to get out of bed. And for some people it's like listening to a podcast like this or a quote, or it's music, or it's just texting one of their friends to give them just a little bit of a pump up. So, I think there's always things you could turn to to get that just that quick spark of motivation. And once you know, once you're there, I feel like that's the easy part. You know, it's like, you're not gonna show up to the gym and then not lift weights. Yeah, like you're, you're there. And so you're gonna you're gonna finish the job. And so I think just just getting there is always the challenge.

Adam: Very well said. You're having an easier time accessing words today than I am. You've competed at the highest pressure situations imaginable. How do you manage pressure? How do you excel under pressure? I would really love for you to give any advice that you have for our listeners on the topic of performing under pressure,

Ryan: Yeah, yeah. And I think this is an area where I've really matured over my career. I think it's totally fair to, you know, it's like an event like the Super Bowl. Like you want Tom Brady as opposed to a rookie quarterback in the Super Bowl because they've done it and so I kind of took that and I applied it to my own career. So my philosophy is, the only way to get better at dealing with pressure is to deal with pressure. And so I try to simulate pressure packed situations throughout the week in small meets so that when I get to the big meet, it's second nature. And I also think directional lighting is really important. So in my sport, it's really easy to just just focus on the scoreboard and focus on a time but when you have directional eyes, that pressure to execute a race strategy, that's a totally different thing. And it really, it takes the pressure off of looking at everyone else. And it really puts the onus on you to just do what you do. And so that's kind of that's kind of how I've looked at it.

Adam: What is in your mind when you're racing in the Olympics? What's in your heart? What are you feeling?

Ryan: So it's really a rush of emotions. So I would say, honestly, I'm most nervous, about a week out. And so that's when I'm thinking about the race, all the things that could happen, who's going to be performing well, who's gonna be performing bad, and then I really start to just lock in on myself. And it's like, Okay, this feels good, this doesn't feel good, and I work to try to make those bad feelings feel a little bit better. And I focus on my technique as opposed to times. And then when I'm at the Games, you know, that's really the stuff I've practiced plenty of times before. So I'm locked in on my process. And I'm really just kind of following the same routine that I've followed throughout the whole season in terms of my warm up and going behind the blocks. I'm listening to music every single time because I think music is the easiest way to kind of dictate emotions. And so if I'm feeling super nervous, I'll listen to like, punk rock or something that I like, you know? That's just something that's pretty chill, like, just good music, but I'm feeling a little bit low energy so I'm gonna listen to rap or house, just to really get myself going. If I'm feeling really, really nervous. I'm gonna listen to something really slow, like country music, you know, like, stuff that can really just take myself down a couple notches when I'm in the water. I'm not really like processing too much. So it's like I could feel things and my stroke, but it's really just having a quick memory. So I'm letting that come into my brain really quick, and then it's out. And so, you know, that's kind of the easiest part. And then afterwards is when I try to let myself like, totally, totally, like drop down and be like, totally neutral, emotionally and in a kind of get ready for the next one. That's the biggest challenge though, is like you're at an event like the Olympics, you know, you've got a race again in a day. And so you're really just, you know, you're in the moment, you recognize that you've just won an Olympic gold but my mind is already about how do I recover, to make sure that I could do really well in the next race. And so that's the biggest challenge is keeping the emotions in check while you're still in the meet.

Adam: I love that. Along those lines, in terms of managing emotions, as an unbelievable competitor, how do you manage the emotions and manage the process of not winning a race and failing in general? How do you manage failure?

Ryan: Yeah, well, those emotions are a lot bigger than the emotions when I win, I'll tell you that. So imagine that. That's really tough. And so the way I kind of do it is, if I'm still within a competition, I'm really just preaching optimism to myself. And so it's like, okay, the 100 back didn't go great. But the 200 back might be a little bit better. And so like, that's kind of the way I'm thinking in my head after the meet. What I've always done is I let myself have a week because I'm someone that's pretty funny. I'm very competitive. And so like when I swim bad, I'm gonna be pretty ticked off. And so I let myself have a week to just kind of process those emotions. And then I try to look at everything as emotionlessly as possible. So like, I just want to be very, very realistic with myself about what I did good, what I did bad, and where I think we can improve. And then I'll sit down and get back to surrounding myself with geniuses and grinders. Like, then I sit down with that focus group so I sit down with my head swim coach, the strength coach, the physical therapists, making sure that we're doing all the right things and getting their feedback. And it could be, I want it to be as blunt as possible because I want to be able to say I want to be able to improve. And so that's kind of how I've dealt with failure.

Adam: Ryan, literally everything you say is applicable to those of us who are never going to be Olympians, the importance of managing emotions, making decisions while calm, surrounding ourselves with people who can help us get to the next level. I hope listeners soaked all that in. I want to ask you one final question, which is what should we look for when we watch the Olympics?

Ryan: What should you look for? Who should you look for?

Adam: Well, we're gonna be watching you so yeah, what should we look for?

Ryan: Yeah, I mean, I think it depends how you want to watch you know? One of the things that I love watching when I watch other sports is I love to see the competitors. Like I want to see the people that can rise to the occasion; they're unfazed by the moment. And so that's what I love to see, in terms of the competition. Like it's a beautiful thing. Like I love going to the Olympics because, you know you're getting every single person's best shot, like there is no single person that's going to be slacking off in an Olympic year, like no one. No one is talented enough to do that, and at this level, and so you know, you're getting everyone's best shot. And then it's really just you step up there. It's like, these are my cards. Like, let's see whose cards are the best right now. And so I love that aspect. So yeah, I mean, so I love to see the competitors. Everyone's a little bit different, but that's what I look for.

Adam: Ryan, thank you for joining us.

Ryan: For sure, for sure. This was great, man. Thanks. Thanks for having me on. 

Adam: This was awesome. Really appreciate it.

Ryan: Of course, yeah. Best of luck with everything.