Nothing Beats Practice: Interview with Harvard Business School's Ranjay Gulati

I recently went one on one with Ranjay Gulati. Ranjay is a professor at Harvard Business School and is the author of the new book Deep Purpose: The Heart and Soul of High-Performance Companies.

Adam: Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice. First things first, though, I am sure readers would love to learn more about you. How did you get here? What experiences, failures, setbacks or challenges have been most instrumental to your growth?

Ranjay: Becoming a professor is anything but linear. And the journey is full of plenty of paper rejections from which you have to bounce back (most top journals have a 90+% rejection rate). Perhaps the most impactful experience for me was working in our family business that my mother founded. I watched it grow through exponential growth followed by complete collapse caused primarily by my mother’s inability to put in place structures and systems that are essential when you scale a business. This led to my launching a body of work focused on organizational scaling, and I have learned much about the dilemmas that most founder-entrepreneurs face.

Adam: What do you hope readers take away from your new book? 

Ranjay: Efforts to tackle pressing problems such as climate change and inequality have stalled, leaving society at a crossroads. In this context, advocates of corporate purpose have lauded it as a silver bullet, while cynics regard it as a cloak behind which companies can hide their true selfish intentions. In reality, some companies have indeed used the idea of “purpose” to mask nefarious conduct. Others, however, have pursued purpose in more authentic ways. By assessing companies that truly embrace purpose as an organizing principle, I hope to showcase for readers how the vast majority of businesses today might better employ purpose to serve society while also achieving economic success. 

Adam: In your experience, what are the key steps to growing and scaling your business?

Ranjay: Effective leaders use purpose to boost company performance. A key insight in my book is that purpose is not a tax on business. Rather it is a generative force that allows the enterprise to simultaneously perform better on its commercial and social objectives. But purpose only becomes generative when leaders pursue it deeply and view it as something very fundamental to their organization’s being. In that case, the organization becomes transformed from one in which employees and other stakeholders connect with it in a transactional way into one in which they feel personally committed to the organization and its objectives. A number of studies have suggested a correlation between purpose and long-term performance (as measured by total shareholder return, growth, and achievement of measurable social objectives). But few have tried to pin down the specific levers by which this performance materializes. My in-depth fieldwork allowed me to identify the specific levers by which the pursuit of deep purpose translates into superior financial and social performance.

Four specific levers allow leaders of deep-purpose companies to achieve superior results. These are:

1. Motivational: attract and retain a more motivated and inspired workforce,

2. Directional: greater clarity on strategic choices and direction,

3. Reputational: greater recognition as a trusted and reliable brand that in turn elicits greater customer loyalty,

4.  Relational: enriched connections with suppliers, partners, and others their ecosystem around a shared understanding of each other that is shaped by clarity of purpose.

Adam: What do you believe are the defining qualities of an effective leader?

Ranjay: Leaders must function as both “plumbers” and “poets.” Plumbers assess market conditions, set strategies, and focus on outstanding execution. Poets inspire people around a shared purpose. If you lack a purpose, you must first find one, plumbing the depths of your heritage for inspiration. Then you must disseminate it, in part by crafting a big story about who you are, what your firm is about, and what it is there to do. Beyond storytelling you must ensure that all of your corporate systems, structures, and processes align with your purpose. And ultimately, you must embody the purpose. Your actions and words must mirror and echo your organizational purpose. In many ways, leaders expect more of themselves when they purport to lead deep purpose organizations.

Adam: How can leaders and aspiring leaders take their leadership skills to the next level?

Ranjay: Leadership is best learned by doing it. Nothing beats practice, making mistakes, reflecting on them, and trying to move forward. But another way is vicarious learning. See what others have done or are doing around you with a learning mindset. You will be surprised how much you can learn by watching others.

Adam: What are your three best tips applicable to entrepreneurs, executives and civic leaders?

Ranjay: Leadership is granted to you by your followers not bestowed on you by your title.

Purpose is the foundation that should shape all that you do.

Be like the Sankofa bird (Ghanaian mytholoigical bird) – fly forward while keeping a keen eye on where you have come from

Adam: What is your best advice on building, leading and managing teams?

Ranjay: The rising generation of young leaders is more purposeful in their lives than prior generations and cares deeply not just about the bottom line but fulfilling an organizational purpose.  A range of fast-growth startups operating today didn’t launch with big ideas only, but also with big ideals. As I’ve written in a recent HBR, “Startups typically operate with the mentality that growth and profit come first, higher calling comes second. This strategy, however, is misguided. Increasingly, entrepreneurs are imbuing their ventures with a grand ideal in addition to a great idea. This ideal not only serves as a moral purpose but also has three strategic and operational advantages. First, it can help expand entrepreneurial ambition. Second, it can attract fellow travelers. And third, it can help align a winning team.” 

And if you are not necessarily part of a start-up and early in your career, think hard about your own life purpose and use it as a filter to make important life decisions including where you might want to work. You will find that you perform best in purposeful organizations where its purpose is resonant with your own purpose.

Adam: What is the single best piece of advice you have ever received?

Ranjay: Always give others the benefit of doubt. You never know the circumstances the other may be facing that are impacting their behavior and words.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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