Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Fashion Designer Rebecca Minkoff

I recently interviewed Rebecca Minkoff on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is a leader in the world of women's fashion, and the co-founder and creative visionary behind the company that bears her name. Rebecca Minkoff is also the founder of the Female Founders Collective, a network of close to 10,000 female-owned businesses, and the author of the new book Fearless. Rebecca, thank you for joining us.

Rebecca: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here.

Adam: I'm excited that you're here with me and that you're here with our listeners. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What were the key steps to putting Rebecca Minkoff, the company and the brand on the map? How did it all come together?

Rebecca: So I really think it had to do with a couple of moments where you seize an opportunity, and you run with it. So the first one being, I moved to New York when I was 18. I worked for a designer for about three years. And it went from a paid internship- paid being for 25 an hour- living in New York City, if you can use your imagination of what that buys you. Not a whole lot- to working there full time. And then kind of in the summer of 2001, I started working on my own five-piece collection on the side. And an actress saw a shirt I had made that my sister-in-law was wearing and that was like an island New York shirt that I had cut up and bedazzled and asked for one and I shipped it to her on September 9, 2001. I had my first fashion show on September 10, 2001. And obviously our world very much changed the next day. But Jenna decided to wear that shirt on Jay Leno, and said my name on national TV and if anyone listening is a geriatric millennial as of now you will remember that pre social media, the power of TV was huge. And it was like a lightning rod and that shirt became a symbol for New York. I was donating the proceeds to charity. So for nine months, that is all I did is I would bike down to Canal Street, pick up the shirt. It was silly in that I didn't negotiate. Well, I was still paying retail for those damn shirts and went back to my apartment and bedazzled them, cut them up. DIY was a thing then- and sell them on one, you know, burgeoning website. And that was kind of the beginning of the journey. And then it happened again several years later with the bag where I was once again with Jenna, who I call my fairy godmother. And she said, do you make bags? It's for a really important role in a movie I'm filming and I just lied and I said, yeah, I do. I definitely make bags and cool, I'll have one to you in two weeks. Yeah, that sounds great. And then I went back to New York and panicked and had a bag made and that was kind of how both of those items which became, you know, my little rocket starters

Adam: I love that and I love your line, geriatric millennial. I call myself an old millennial.

Rebecca: No, we're geriatric now. That's the new title for us. Yeah, like 80 to, I think, like 85 are the geriatric ones now.

Adam: Oh my God. Thanks for making my day. I want to ask you what lessons you learned from that experience? You called Jenna Elfman, your fairy godmother. And the name of the show is 30 Minute Mentors. So much of the success we all experience is from people who help us along the way, whether they're mentors, whether they're what I call mini mentors, or whether they're people like Jenna Elfman, who in your case, really helped you by giving exposure to an unknown brand. How can anyone tuning in benefit in the way that you and your brand were able to benefit? What advice do you have?

Rebecca: I think the advice that I have is always seize opportunity. Look around you for things that could become opportunities. You know, early on, again, celebrities were the gateway to getting your product seen. And I didn't have connections. I wasn't necessarily included in the core fashion industry. But I got an inbound email one day from an agent that wanted a bag and I did some research on her and I found that she was an agent to all these popular up and coming young hollywood starlets. And I said I'll get you a bag for every handbag you put on one of your celebrities, and she was like, done and done, you know, and so I could have just facilitated her one order, but I always I call them my opportunity tentacles, they're always out in searching for what could possibly be. And then not being afraid to ask. I feel like people are so afraid to ask for help or ask for support. And I just remember again, and I do this now, it's different now, obviously, but I would come home every night, early on with business cards, and I would count it like they were cash because I was like, opportunity, opportunity, opportunity. And then I had to do outreach. No one was gonna reach out to me and be like, oh, you're a nobody, let me help you. I had to be the person that's like, hey, can you get me into this store? Do you know this buyer? Do you know this editor, whatever it is, and I'm still that way, and I think there's a gross way to do it, and there's an authentic way to do it. I think as long as you are kind and honest and willing to help when it's your turn, I think, you know, get used to the idea that you're gonna have to ask. The calvary is not gonna come for you. You have to make your own way yourself.

Adam: So much great advice there. And I want to highlight a couple of points that you made. First and foremost, the importance of being resourceful. No one is going to hand you things. I would imagine that anyone tuning into this podcast is listening because they're trying to figure out how to take the next step on their journey, whatever journey that is. And it involves figuring out how to capitalize on whatever resources you have around you. And they may be new resources that you haven't even thought of yet. Being resourceful is key to success as an entrepreneur, key to success as a leader, key to success in whatever it is you're pursuing in life. And to the second key point that you made, it's better to ask for forgiveness than to ask for permission. So don't worry about asking, worry about not asking. If you don't ask, the answer is automatically going to be no. So if someone say no, you know, what's the big deal, it's a lot better than being too afraid to ask.

Rebecca: 100% and I think you are going to get told no. We can't be scared of that. I'm still told no, you know, and then I'm like, okay, good. Not an opportunity, right. Now, let me keep asking. And I also like to highlight, you know, when I, again, when I first started out, I had a graph that I would keep of how many stores that I have to reach out to that said no, for one to say yes. And it became a ratio game, rather than an emotional game- or how many editors that I have to email, you know, to get one reply. And once I knew it was okay. 100 emails equals one reply. That's a yes, good. If I want 10 yeses, that's 1,000 emails or whatever the ratio is. And it takes away a little bit of the disappointment when you're looking at it from a numbers point of view. And it put me at a place of feeling more that I could affect the outcome if I just looked at it purely based on mathematical, you know, output. And that really helped me in the early days as well. And it helps me today too. I want to have dinner for 26 people like I'm having next Friday. I got an email out to probably 150 people, and guess what 116 of them are gonna say no, but 26 will say yes.

Adam: That’s a  great mindset. We've talked about your early days. But Rebecca Minkoff, the company, the brand, is a global brand. What advice do you have on the topic of scaling? What are the keys to scaling your business? And how do you effectively manage the process of scaling?

Rebecca: So I'd be lying to you if I said that I did this alone. You know, it definitely takes a company effort. My brother is the co-founder and CEO of Rebecca Minkoff. And I think the advice that I'm going to give about scaling is going to be different than how we did it. We did it very quickly. We did it very aggressively. And it was very uncomfortable- not that I would ever say no to the growth we experienced. But it put us at, you know, never having enough to fund the next phase of production and always being in this scarcity mindset because of the growth. So what I would say to people is get your house in order on your immediate solid ground. And when you have that as stability, then focus out, so let's just say you're a US-based brand, get your US business locked in solid. Know your customer, know what works, know what doesn't work, know what fails, then, you know, put out a test balloon somewhere else. And it's gonna be different. You know, when we launched in Japan the first time, it was a huge success. And then we made a deal with a distributor in Japan and they sort of owned and operated the bag with our product and they did it completely wrong. And so we lost our foothold in Japan because we put all of our eggs into one basket. And they thought we should be on the fifth avenue of, you know, the street and open a store that didn't look like Rebecca Minkoff and you know, have ancillary products that didn't look like Rebecca Minkoff. And we thought to ourselves, oh, they know what they're doing. They know their customers better than we do. And guess what- they didn't. So I think that making sure you really have an understanding before you go big is really, really important to build a global presence.

Adam: What are your best tips on the topics of marketing and branding? So much of what you've done and have been able to accomplish has been around building this highly successful brand. What can you share with listeners?

Rebecca: Yeah, so today, obviously, again, we're in a new world, and people have their branding decks ready and their font hierarchy and their social media colors. You know, when I started out, I didn't have any of that. I didn't, you know, all I knew was I wanted to call the bag The Morning After bag, because you know, Sex in the City. I wanted something that you could go out with your girlfriends and have a sleepover come what may, and I thought, oh, there should be a little business card slipped into every bag with a phone number that still exists to this day, and a picture of a guy saying call me and it should be handwritten and look real. And that was my marketing. It's not like I had a big budget. But the cheekiness of that and I'm calling it The Morning After Bag and having the message on the answering machine of a guy really made people smile, you know, it made people laugh and think how cute that was. And then as we got bigger, you know, doing different stunts. Again, we've never had the money to do big things whether, you know, it was crowdsourcing before that was a thing, whether it was, you know, multinational scavenger hunts to find bags around the country. I think we just started doing these things that, again, we were competing against brands and still compete against brands that have 10’s of millions of dollars of marketing. So I think, you know, don't say, oh, I don't have any money, I can be creative, because we've been creative, your mouth would come off, I'd have to pick your mouth up off the floor if I told you what our budgets are, and, you know, still be creative. So I think that marketing is really important. Knowing your audience is really important. And then really having tunnel vision, we know that our brand is for a woman who wants an accessible price point. We’re her first big purchase after fast fashion. We also know we're a milestone moments brand, even though that sounds cheesy, like she's buying us to celebrate something big that happened. And that bag is a really big part of that identity for her. So we know who that is. We know what she wants, we know the price point. And so it's just about talking to her day in and day out and, and bringing her along that journey. So I think the more granular you can get with your customer and really get to know them, the better you'll be able to come up with those creative ideas, that spark of ingenuity and dialogue with them.

Adam: I love that. And I want to dive a little bit deeper. Around the topic of creativity, your new book is called Fearless: The New Rules for Unlocking Creativity, Courage and Success. And one of the focal points of your book is creativity. Can you describe your creative process for listeners and what tips you have for anyone on how they can unlock and optimize their creativity?

Rebecca: Yeah, so I think creativity is something that is different for everybody. And if I go back to my youth... falling asleep at night, I would be just dreaming about different clothing designs. Now when I fall asleep at night, I'm thinking about different business and marketing ideas. So it's quite a shift. And I think for me, the biggest way that I stay inspired is by staying on the pulse of what's happening within culture, within media. Travel is a huge source of creativity for me/ Obviously, that's been stagnant the last, you know, 16 months. It’s just getting started. But you know, for me to go into a new place and eat new food and see new sites and see how people dress has always been a source of where I get my creativity. And then, you know, we definitely hone in on a certain era, I would say on the aesthetic side. You know, if you go back into the 60’s and you look at some of the women, whether it's Jane Birkin or Bianca Jagger or Patti Smith, these women had a style that you could literally pull out of the pages now and put on the street and be like, damn, I want to dress like this woman versus the 80’s where you're like, please run please, go far away from me and I never want to see a puffy shoulder or like a feathered haircut again. And so I think that when I do feel like I don't have a creative bone in my body, at least on the design side, I know that I can go back to the 60’s and 70’s and sort of look in these old books and pour over them for some semblance of getting a spark. And then other days, when I got nothing, I go for a walk, I leave my phone at home, I look outside and look around and look at the environment around me. I was in Soho and I was going for one of these walks, and I was like, oh, my God, I haven't looked up in so long. We're all looking down at our phones. And what a beautiful magical city this is. And I forgot, you know, because I'm looking at the sidewalk on my phone all the time. And so that's definitely something I can't recommend enough is just wherever you are getting that space of just taking a break whenever you feel that block.

Adam: Along those lines, so many people listening to this podcast are thinking about not only unlocking their own creativity but unlocking the creativity of others within their organization. And to that end, what advice do you have on how to build a culture within your organization that encourages innovation and creativity?

Rebecca: So my brother and I are, I think, born and bred entrepreneurs. And we see that the people that thrive the most within our company are people that have that same spirit. When we want someone to think out of the box or come up with crazy ideas, like, that is very much what we foster within our company. The people that don't make it with us, or like corporate, in my box delegate. I only touch this and I never do that, like the people that are so used to being somewhere and not being allowed to think and I'm not saying that all people in corporate America are not allowed to think, but there are those types that depend upon the next person to like, grab the piece of paper when they're done stamping it. And I think we foster that intrapreneurship idea. And I think that's where we see people grow and when they know that they can come to us with wild ideas. We try stuff. We're crazy. You know, we move fast. We're a slim team. And so I think that's the type of environment that people thrive in and know that they can come up with anything and we’ll listen. We might not do it, but we're excited about hearing what it is.

Adam: I think that's great. And there are a few themes that I think relate to the advice you shared; the importance of thinking outside the box. The importance of empowering others within your organization, no matter where they are within your organization- they could be an intern, they could be a senior executive, it doesn't matter where the ideas come from. I've found that within my own companies, ideas can come from anywhere. They can come from your customers, they can come from strangers. But as a leader, it's important to empower others to feel like they have a stake and feel like their voice is going to be heard. Great leaders are great listeners, and you need to give anyone and everyone around you the ability to feel like what they say matters. And that starts at the top. And along those lines. I wanted to ask you, in your view, what do you believe are the key characteristics of a great leader and how can anyone become a better leader?

Rebecca: I definitely think that for women- and I've seen this with so many of the founders that I speak to there's definitely if I lead and I'm strong- like how men have often led- then I'm perceived as a bitch. And it becomes this weird place where suddenly you're like well I'm not allowed to be strong and have expectations and that suddenly makes me, you know. Like I had a man literally many years ago women go are you okay? Are you and your period? I was like no, I'm not on my period. I deserve an answer. And I deserve for you to tell me the status of this thing that you know you. I didn't say it like that, but, you know, that was sort of my tone. I was like, wow. So I think that it's really important for women; to own and celebrate their differences. And I'm not going to speak for a man because I'm not one. But I think women can be vulnerable and strong. I think you can be comforting and nurturing and demanding. I think there are some dichotomies that women have been worried to sort of go into because they were perceived as weak or womanly, and also on the flip side, too manly. And so I think we get if we can play both sides correctly, I think that's a superhero strength that we can evoke. And when I say that, the examples that I have are, I can care about my staff, and worry about them and want to make sure that their work-life is more balanced, if that's even a thing, which as I say that I don't even believe in balance, but, you know, I want to make sure they have their time off and I’m respecting their boundaries. Let's just say, that they have a good personal life. But at the same time, I'm giving them a paycheck. If they're not going to come to work every day and help me lay more bricks, I don't care that they're trying so hard, or I really mean- well, no, you either helped me lay more bricks or you don't. And I'm sorry that you're trying hard, but there's someone else that will lay the bricks, not just try. And so I think that shift is very different from how I used to lead. I used to lead with coming to my office, let me coddle you. Are you going to be okay? And I thought that that would improve our culture, and it did not, you know, and it did not make people work harder. It just made me feel like at times I'm a therapist. And so I think that that shift of, are you okay? How are you doing? What do you need to feel successful? Combined with, work your butt off, and you'll go get another job and make 50% more because you know, my name is on your resume, and you really did a good job. Or you'll get promoted and get to do all this fun stuff. I think that's the mentality that I think people can lead with.

Adam: Rebecca, one of the things that people hear me say all the time is that the core principles of effective leadership are universal. And what you shared right there is so applicable not just to women, but to men as well. And what it really comes down to is leading with authenticity, vulnerability, being a leader who cares for the people in your organization, cares for people period. I have written a lot and speak a lot about the core principles of effective leadership. And it starts with caring for other people. If you don't have a deep love for people, you're never going to be an effective leader. That's where it all starts. At the same time. It's all about taking the people around you, taking your organization to the next level. Making everyone around you their best selves, and bringing your company bringing your team to a level that it wouldn't get to without your leadership. And that involves being results-focused. That involves being someone who is able to very much along the lines of all the advice that you shared, balance, caring for people with caring about results. They're not mutually exclusive. I want to ask you about a topic that you've been very open about. And it's a topic that has been discussed with so many guests on this podcast. And that topic is failure. What are the biggest mistakes you've made and the biggest failures you've experienced over the course of your career, and what did you learn from them? And go on to step further- what advice do you have for listeners on how to approach and manage failure?

Rebecca: First, I just want to say that if you're listening, you're going to fail, and it's going to be more often than you ever imagined. And that's part of the deal. It's like saying, do we breathe oxygen? Yes. So you are going to fail. And I think it's the idea of reframing failure. You know, in my book I talk about sometimes you win, sometimes you learn, and if you look at every failure- again, because it's gonna happen a lot, especially if you're an entrepreneur and you're doing things for the first time and figuring stuff out. You know, how do you reframe it into a learning opportunity? So I think it's important to have that mindset. It doesn't mean that failure hurts less, it's still gonna hurt. But at least you pick out the positivity from it. I could share failures that would probably make every person want to never be an entrepreneur again. Some of the notable failures were early on. We had no quality control within our company. It was just an extra $90,000 salary we couldn't afford. And I was like, yeah, what's the worst that's gonna happen? And so we bought a bunch of leather from Italy. And this specific leather, when it was being packed, it got humid. And so the wax that is what makes the leather gorgeous and has the beautiful sheen sort of rose to the surface, and then the heat cooled very quickly. And so what it looked like was these splotches of white almost like when you spilled wax on the table, like a candle on the table. And so all the bags that were made had these white foggy sort of patches, and it looked like it could be mold. So I get a call from a store in Australia, my first big account in Australia, she's like, your bag has fungus growing on it. And I was like, what? And then I started hearing from other stores. And again, no direct to consumer, that didn't exist, it wasn't a thing. And I started hearing all these complaints of like, yeah, there's mold or something growing on your bags. And I was like, what is happening? And I finally traced it back down to the leather vendor, and I said, what's going on? Since you know, I told everyone, please don't return the bags, just wait, let me figure it out. And they said, oh, no, no, the wax just rose to the service. If you take a blow dryer, and you gently wave it in front of the bag, it'll melt, and I'll never come back. So to call up the best stores in the world, you know, Saks Fifth Avenue, Neiman Marcus, and be like, alright, go with me here. If your staff can just go downstairs, do they have a blow dryer? Cool. If they could just wave it across the bag for a few minutes, it'll melt the wax and it'll be fine. It's not mold and doing that for hundreds of stores so that they wouldn't return the bags. You know, at the time it was a $200,000 problem, which was huge, you know, for a small company and a huge, huge amount of money that I risked taking back. And it was embarrassing, you know? Had we had quality control at the factory, they would have caught it and handled it then. And so I think that that was definitely a moment where you're like, wow, we didn't have that $90,000 salary. But this was a $200,000 problem. So I think that that's definitely a big one. And then a more recent one is we switched logistics warehouses, like the people that ship out our product, right before our biggest sale of the year. And there was a glitch in the software in that when someone entered a Chinese character, it messed up. You want to guess how many orders it messed up? You're gonna have 7,000 orders, Oh, my God. And it created a stock situation where multiple people could order and the product didn't exist. And so to mess up 7,000 people's orders who are buying Christmas presents- you know what people are like during Christmas, they get emotional. And you piss off 7,000 people- that was a very special thing. And the apologies and the gifts that were sent. And the emails and letters that I wrote didn't even scratch the surface of how angry people were. So that was definitely a moment. That was in 2017. We are still here.

Adam: That’s awesome. What did you learn from those failures?

Rebecca: I think in those two instances, there are a very clear example of, there's no shortcuts. You know, there's a lot of things in life that we are accustomed to because now we get to click a button on our phone and it arrives immediately or your car is there within five minutes. But there are certain things, especially on your entrepreneurial journey, that will never be a shortcut. There are people that can help propel you and give you more jet fuel, but you have to view your career and the choices you make as sort of long-term things. So had I had quality control and I made sure that we did- well, in this case, had I made sure that my brother did, you know, a sort of a stress test of the new software system, you know, all those things could have been done and would have maybe delayed our sale by a day, but we definitely wouldn't have had 7,000 orders glitch.

Adam: Rebecca, I could tell you from my own experience as an entrepreneur, unfortunately, everything you said rings true. Any time in the past we've tried to shortcut anything it's only come back to bite us. So that's such an important lesson and a lesson that anyone who's interested in becoming an entrepreneur or is an entrepreneur can learn from and in our remaining time, I want to ask you a few rapid-fire questions. that are applicable to entrepreneurs, but also applicable to people across all fields. You mentioned that one of the keys to your success has been working with your brother, who is your business partner and is the co-founder of Rebecca Minkoff. What are your best tips on how to successfully work with friends or family?

Rebecca: After working for him for almost 16 years, I think it's really really, really, really, really important that if you're going to work with anyone, that you sit down, and you sort of write down what you need and want from the other person, and what they need and want from you, and I say this, because you can both be excited, you can be all like, blinded by what could happen in the business, and then things get tough. And then fingers start pointing. And I think if your roles and responsibilities are clear, and, you know, the buttons to stay away from, there are less landmines that you're going to step in. And this is true for siblings, for spouses, for friends. I think the thing that no one realizes when it is siblings, spouses, friends is because you know each other so well, you can cut a lot deeper. So we signed up for almost like couples counseling for business partners, many years ago, because we were reaching points at which we weren't speaking to each other. And we were professional enough that no one in the organization knew. But we as siblings, you know, we'd let that relationship die. And we spoke to each other at the office when we had to, but that doesn't make for great leadership or connectivity. So I think that when we elected this person, and they really had a sort of, you know, we came out the other end of three days off-site. And we literally have agreements that we both signed with each other, like, I'm no longer going to send you angry text messages. And I'm going to let you know about all the initiatives I'm working on- whatever it is, you come out of there with a fresh point of view. And I think things evolve. You know, things changed a lot when I had my first kid, and I went from having, you know, being out every night with him and our president brainstorming to being like, no, I gotta get home, I got a baby, you know, and good or bad, that shifted the dynamics with us. And so, you know, I think that these constant sort of touch bases of where you are as founders need to happen regularly so that expectations are clear. And you know, you're going to spend more time with this person than any partner you might have. So you should help fully make sure that that relationship is solid because when it gets hard, you want that person to be there with you as your friend, not as your oh, I hate this person. I can't believe we have to solve this problem together.

Adam: Open communication is so key to successful relationships, in business and in life. What are your best fashion tips for women and for men?

Rebecca: The top two fashion tips for women are- well, I'll say three; wear what makes you feel great. Yes, there are trends, not all of us are going to be able to wear crop tops and mom jeans and Fila sneakers. So wear what makes you feel the most confident. Except here's my asterisk. Please don't wear a high heel that makes it so that by the end of the night, you need support to walk. I always hate it when I see a woman leaning on her man or another woman just because she picked the wrong shoe. Never a good look. And then, as far as one tip that I found, I'll usually navigate towards buying something that makes me slightly uncomfortable, not from a physical point of view. But like, can I pull this off? And usually that's what I get the most compliments on. So always add something to your closet that makes you slightly uncomfortable like, ooh, this is daring. And then, man, I have no idea. Sorry, I'm just gonna admit that, you know, I like how my husband dresses but you know.

Adam: Sounds like you're about as knowledgeable about fashion for men as I am. So we're on the same page there. What can anyone listening do to better succeed personally or professionally?

Rebecca: I think that, you know, it sounds trite, but when you can find, you know, your first job, your second job, your third job- your job, in general might not be your dream job. And that can be hard and it can be challenging. But if you can find something in that, that you can learn and grow from and use that to fuel you- I think that people that have succeeded have always taken, you know, whatever their situation was that wasn't ideal and worked. And again, it's a long game. It's not an overnight success. It's not, you know, three months, six months, but what can I suck out of this environment that'll enable me to get one step closer to what my dream is? And how can I work really, really hard to grow in that respect? And I say that, you know, with the full knowledge of when I was at my first job, and I was put the first day into the shipping department, I was like, I didn't move here to New York City to be at a shipping department. This is below me. Let me tell you, when I was in that shipping department for many weeks, you know, when it came to knowing how to ship and do logistics for my own bags, it was a really handy skill. And so I think that, you know, find what you can to learn and continue to learn because that skill that you foster will always come in handy. And then just know that your dream job might be five years, 10 years in the future. But if you are putting your head down and doing the work, and making sure that every day you're getting closer to what that ideal thing is, you'll just be a lot more successful in general.

Adam: Rebecca, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Rebecca: Thank you so much.

Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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