Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Interview with Rick Barry

I recently interviewed on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview: 

Adam: There was only one person in the history of basketball to lead the NBA, ABA, and NCAA in scoring. Rick Barry is an eight time NBA All Star and NBA Finals MVP, an NBA Hall of Famer, and a member of the NBA’s official list of the 50 Greatest to ever play the game. Younger basketball fans may know Rick as the father of three NBA players and believe it or not all five of Rick's son's played professionally. Rick, thank you for joining us.

Rick: Happy to do that. But everybody seems to always forget that I also had four years in the ABA where I was an all star as well. So people tend to forget about that. But that's not it's all It's all in the past anyway and actually, if you want to count the fact that my son is on the Minnesota Timberwolves g league team, please going to get a chance to play in the NBA we'll see what happens but yeah, it's pretty remarkable when you think about it. I was hoping one of my boys would be good enough to play basketball and go on and go to college but all five of them got division one college scholarships, all five have played professionally; three in the NBA. My other son, Scooter, is the last, was cut by the Celtics. Timing’s everything in life Adam as you well know. And unfortunately when he came out there were only 12 man rosters in the NBA now they have 15 with two guys that are two way guys with the G league. And my son was cut by the Boston Celtics because they had 13 no cut contracts and Larry Bird and Kevin McHale both told me, Rick, your son should have been on our team. He was better than our number one draft pick. But he had a nice career overseas, playing till he was 40 years old. And so the odds on having that happen with all of your children is probably pretty remarkable. It's probably a Guinness record, I would think.

Adam: Yeah, Rick, a little bit later on in the interview I'm going to dive into that because one of the things I really want to better understand is, what are some of the lessons that you taught your kids that helped them along the way but before we dive into your journey, and some of the advice that you have for listeners. A couple of really quick basketball questions, what's your all time starting five?

Rick: Well, I'm gonna play the small forward position. And then we're going to take Wilt Chamberlain is my senator, Bill Russell is my power forward because I don't need Bill Russell to score points just rebound and block shots, and control the defensive boards along with wealth and I defy anybody to go in there and get these crazy kind of dunks that you see all these players getting nowadays with those two guys in there, that would change dramatically. And then I would have to go with Michael Jordan as the two. The hardest one is there are a lot of great point gaurds out there I really respect and would love to play with. But it's pretty hard not to- as much as I love Oscar and as amazing as Oscar Robertson was, I like to run, I like to get up down to court and play super fast break basketball. And who better to do that than Magic Johnson who has the versatility also to do other things? So I'd have to go with Magic. So that would be the four guys that I would have Magic, Michael, Bill and, Wilt.

Adam: Rick, a lot of our listeners are probably gonna take whatever device that they are listening to this on and throw it against the wall because you didn't mention LeBron.

Rick: Well, I'm playing the three. I mean, yeah, I'm not gonna, you know, I'd be more than happy to play against LeBron. He can play three on their team, but I'm playing three on my team. And I'll take my four guys and you can get any other four guys that they want. And I'd be more than happy to have a matchup with them. If it could ever be arranged. Maybe we can do that up in heaven or something and everybody will be healthy at their prime and we could see what happened. But that's what makes sports interesting is that you can always have discussions like this and everybody's entitled to their opinions. And certainly to me though, if I was going to pick somebody to put there at that position, and I wasn't playing, I would pick LeBron over Bird, mainly because of the fact that he's just so gifted athletically and can do so many things. And you know, as great as a player as Bird was, you know, I just give a little bit of an edge to LeBron because of his physical stature. I mean, the guy is something. He was a manchild coming out of high school, and he's just a beast. There’s never been anybody quite like him.

Adam: So I mean, clearly one of the things that fans struggle with and try to do is compare players across generations. And it's really hard for us you have a much easier time doing it because you've been a part of the NBA since the 1960s. As a player, as a coach, as a commentator, as a parent, how do you really go through that exercise and how do players today match up relative to players from other areas?

Rick: Well, I think that most people have no idea about a guy's like Wilt Chamberlain and you know, Will Chamberlain and Bill Russell and the way that they played the game, and Jerry West of course, before Michael came along Oscar Robertson, there's so many great players that I had the good fortune of playing either with at All Star games or against them. You know, my old teammate Thurman. You know, playing today would be a dominant big guy. And now the game has changed. The three point shot has changed. I mean, we have seven footers. Now these guys are out there shooting three point shots for heaven's sake. I mean the Greek Freak, you know, Giannis was out there made what 5 or 8 the other day? I mean, it's just, it's crazy what these guys are doing, these big people. And it's almost as if the Wilt Chamberlains and the Bill Russells of the world are almost becoming like dinosaurs and becoming extinct. They don't play inside anymore, and they just don't go that route. But I still think there's a place for a player like that, that you can go inside out. And then certainly if a player has the ability to also do some scoring outside, it just gives you even more versatility and it’s much more difficult to defend the team like that. But for anybody, for those who are listening and don't know about it, let me just throw a couple of things out there for you for Wilt Chamberlain. As great as Kareem was, the single greatest shot, I don't always agree with Stephen A Smith, but Stephen A Smith the other day, I happened to hear him say something about the greatest single shot that anybody's ever had is Kareem Skyhook. And I definitely 've been saying that for years, there's never been a more unstoppable, incredible shot than the Skyhook of Kareem Abdul Jabbar. However, Kareem is not, was not, in my opinion, a greater player all around than Wilt Chamberlain. When I start talking about players, I'm not talking about them as far as helping their team wins championships. Bill Russell obviously has the title for that. But I'm talking about the skills required to play that position, and the things that they did during their career. No one holds a candle to what Wilt Chamberlain has done and no one will ever compare it to what Wilt Chamberlain has done; 50 points a game in one season. Do you understand how incredible that is? It is beyond comprehension. To me to think that in my best year of playing, I would have had to find a way to get 13 more points in every game that I played. Most guys don't even score 13 as an average in their career, let alone getting 13 more in the game over and above the points I'd already scored. And then you look at his rebounding totals; 22.5 rebounds average per game for his career. I mean, that's unheard of. So the guys, the things that they did, and they didn't keep block shots back then I mean, if they have kept block shots and number of shots altered by their defense, that would be another amazing statistic that they would have there probably would far outshine anything that exists today and the records that they have. So again, a different time and a different era. And then people say to me, “Well, you know, you guys really couldn't play with these guys today.” And I look at them. I said, Are you really serious making a statement like that? Do you understand how much better I would be and all of my contemporaries and the guys I played with would be if we played today because of the sophistication of the training that is available, we didn't have an agility coach, a strength coach, a dietician, all these things that these guys have to make them- I mean, I would be faster, stronger, quicker, jump higher, have more more stamina. I mean, it's it's unbelievable how much better I would be if I was playing today than I was when I played them. So putting all these factors together, the guys back in the day when I played were unbelievably great players and one of the big differentiations is all those guys actually knew how to play the game the right way.

Adam: So for listeners who are not aware, Rick is known as one of the fiercest competitors in NBA history. Just from the first couple of minutes of this conversation you can probably tell Rick is competitive. Is work ethic and drive something that can be taught or is it something innate?

Rick: I think it can be influenced some. My father was a perfectionist and my father was a semi pro player and coach and I had the good fortune of him teaching me the game the correct way, which is the fundamentals you have. I don't care what profession you are in. You must learn the fundamental principles and concepts of that profession in order to give yourself a foundation to build on because you cannot put a tall building on a small foundation, so you'll never maximize the God-given talents and abilities you have or the skills that you may learn and work on to develop You'll never really fully utilize them properly if you don't have that foundation to build on. And that's one of the problems that exists today in all sports is that in so many of the sports, the fundamentals are not being taught as well as they should be to young kids, and therefore they develop a lot of bad habits. And a lot of guys make it all the way to the NBA on amazing athleticism, but they'll never be as good as they should be. Because they don't understand how to use those amazing skills to their best advantage.

Adam: What are some of the things that you did as a player to try to elevate the performance of your teammates?

Rick: I just played the game the way it was meant to be played, which is to play aggressively and try to create opportunities offensively, and if somebody was open, I made sure I got the ball to them. So by doing that, and being the attacking type of an offensive player, you're going to force the defense to have to do things to try to help them when they do that. I give the ball to my teammate to create a nice opportunity for him so you have to play unselfishly. I always was going to take a shot if I could get open provided I didn't have a teammate in a better position. And also, if he can shoot the ball, I mean this thing, I'm on TV. I always laugh all the time. But well, that's a great yeah, making the extra pass. That was awesome. Well, the extra pass is not a good pass. If you're open at 18 feet, and your teammates open at 15. And you pass it to him because he's more wide open, but he can't shoot as well from 15 as you can from 18. It's not about throwing to the open man. It's about throwing it to the guy who has the best chance of scoring. If you can shoot better than he can, that's not the right path to make. You always give it to the guy under the basket. But if it's throwing it out to the perimeter, and you had a chance to shoot it, you're a better shooter than your teammate. You don't make that pass.

Adam: Rick, you were the star player of the teams that you played for for much of your career. But who were some of the teammates that you played with who really stood out that contributed in a way that maybe got under appreciated and what can listeners learn more globally from that example?

Rick: They all contributed. It's a team game. It's not about an individual, you don't win a championship if you don't have teammates that perform. So if all of my teammates didn't perform at a high level, we'd never won a championship in 1975. I mean, in fact, I tell this story all the time. But if it weren't for my teammates, we would have never gotten to the finals. Game seven, the Western Conference Finals against The Bulls. I was horrible in the first three and a half quarters of that game I was like two for 14. And Al Attles had the good fortune- In fact, I was just at a function for a gala for the ACC foundation that he has in the Oakland area, to raise some money and I got up and had to say a few things. And one of the things I said was the greatest coaching move of Al Attles career was benching me in the Game 7 against Chicago in the third quarter, and midway through, he took me out of the game, and my teammates held Chicago scoreless for like seven and a half minutes. He kept me out of the game the rest of that quarter, all the way into the fourth quarter. I kind of wanted to go in at the end of the third but he's the coach and when I did go in, I would fortunately for me, I remember the shot that I took and made when I first got back into the game but also I played really well the way I should have been playing the whole game. In the last six, seven minutes of that quarter, we wound up winning that game and winning the Western Conference and going on to pull off the biggest upset in the history of the NBA Finals by sweeping the Bullets and, if it wasn't for my teammates, we wouldn't get there. Now. Some of them obviously better than me. Probably the greatest player I played with in my career on my team was Nate Thurmond, who's a top 50 player, one of the greatest centers of all time, but I also had other players who were outstanding. Oh, Jeff Mullins and Derek Dickey and Butch Beard and Charles Johnson and Charles Dudley. George Johnson, you could just go on. Clifford Ray was like my dearest friend ever. But Clifford probably was more important to our team than I was from the standpoint of bringing everybody together and making a cohesive unit and making us the team that we were. We really cared about winning, and not necessarily about individual awards and honors. And Clifford was, I say Clifford was the hub, and I was one of the important spokes along with my teammates, but Clifford was the most important player on our team as far as I'm concerned.

Adam: Rick, how important do you believe coaches are to a team's win/loss record? And what are the defining characteristics of a great coach?

Rick: Well, I think first of all, the coach has to earn the respect of his star players. Because if you don't get the star players to go buy into what you're trying to accomplish with the team, you have no chance of success. And so that's the number one element. And the other important element to me is that you can't have such an ego that you're going to make the team play the way you want them to play in the style that you want to have employed. You have to put in an offensive system and a defensive system that caters to the talent of your personnel. It'd be like somebody trying to do something in a business to take a guy who's unbelievable in research and put them in sales. Makes no sense, right? Same thing here. You can't take guys and try to force them to play the way that you want them to play when they don't have the talent to play that way. So you have to be willing to change and implement it and find out what their strengths and weaknesses are and to utilize those strengths as often as possible and in the best way possible and minimize putting them in situations where their weaknesses can be exploited. And also one last thing on there; coaches get too much credit a lot of times, but more often than not they get too much blame because most coaches don't have the authority to choose the players they want to coach and so they have to try to make sometimes chicken salad out of you-know what-given to them by general managers.

Adam: Sure. Good. Totally agree. Rick, what coach in today's game do you admire most and why?

Rick: Well, you have to admire the guys who have had success for extended periods of time obviously Gregg Popovich still pops in the guy who's still current and still active although even showing now he doesn't have the personnel. You know, they're not doing very well and they haven't had a real good season this year. The greatest coach in the world can't win if he doesn't have the right talent. The game and team sports, any sport, comes down to three major criteria. Without these you can't be successful Who do you draft, who do you get for free agency, who do you trade for? It's all about the players that you choose. And then you hope that you get a coach that doesn’t screw that up if you make the right choices. And so, to know how good a coach is, though, you really can't make a true evaluation unless you play for him. Because if you're not in the huddle if you're not at the practices, and you don't really hear what's being said, and what's being asked of you and what adjustments are being made, because even though you see a timeout, they used to be- after the 75 finals, actually, TV started, they took the huddle. The coaches didn't want to have the microphones in the huddle anymore because Casey Jones actually lost his job over what happened to the finals. When Bernie Bickerstaff, his assistant coach seemed to be coaching the team and there was this huge upset- he lost his job and the coaches voted to not have mics in the huddle. Now they got that back again, because it really can show you just how good the coach is. The way he comports himself, the things that he says to his teams, and so it can be very telling. And even then, before they had that, you can hear what he's saying to his team, you don't know. And the announcers would say, well, that's not a very good play. Well it may not be the plate that the coach just told the players to run. They may have told them one thing they went out there and did something else and everybody's blaming the coach for the lousy play that was run when the players themselves went out there and didn't do what the coach asked them to do. So it's very difficult.

Adam: You mentioned the importance of coach winning over star players. How does a coach win over star players? How does it coach win over the locker room?

Rick: Just develop a relationship. Well the first thing I would do if I ever did get to coach, I even did it on the minor league level, is you take those players out and you go out to have dinner with them or lunch with them and you spend some time with them, and get to know them as people, and then explain to them what you're attempting to do with the team and try to basically become a salesman and sell them on what you would want that what you want to happen and what you want to employ with this team. And have them buy into that. Because if they don't buy into it, it's not going to work.

Adam: Very simple, very applicable advice, whether you're a coach in the NBA or whether you're a leader of any kind of organization.

Rick: When I talk to business, the similarities between sports and business are so similar and applicable in both. I mean, it really truly is, I mean, you get down to it, it’s the same situation. A boss is required to analyze this personnel and put those personnel in the right situation to be able to maximize the potential that he has. And a lot of times they don't do that and they don't utilize their people properly. And a lot of times they have a business that's set up to operate in a certain manner that may not be the best way to operate your business. Depending upon your personality, you have to be willing to change. And that's what coaches have to be willing to do. And a lot of them don't do it. And in football most of the time they draft according to what their needs are. They have their system, they try to get players who play and have the skills to fill in the play in that system. And so in basketball, it's not that easy. I mean, you can't necessarily find someone because you don't have that many players, you can't necessarily find someone who might have the skills to play in your system. And so you wind up drafting somebody who has this talent and ability and stuff, but he's not good for your system. And then you try to force him to play your way and it doesn't work out.

Adam: Rick, what are the biggest misconceptions that people have about success?

Rick: The biggest misconceptions that people have about success is that it comes easy. You have to be in the right place at the right time. That has a lot to do with it. You have to be in the right place at the right time. But it all comes down to you and your preparation. It doesn't just happen by happenstance. I mean if you understand it, some of the most successful people, you'll fail and a lot of times along the way, and you learn by your mistakes; intelligent people learn by their mistakes, like somebody once said- I've never seen a name associated with the quote that I saw, that the fastest way to learn to do something right is to do it wrong. Sure. But the thing is, the smart person learns from that mistake, and you just don't make the same mistakes over and over again, you avoid making a mistake that you are aware of, and avoid that like the plague. And try to make yourself better through the learning experience that you had by having made that mistake. And it's just a matter of putting the time and the effort and here's the thing, instead, you have to work at it. Well, I don't like that word, work. Because if you love what you're doing, that's one of the keys to success. Find something you love and have a passion for. Otherwise you got a job. I never felt like I had a job playing basketball, it was never a job. I just got paid.

Adam: What advice do you give people on how to discover their passion?

Rick: If you love what you're doing it's not like you say, oh, I got to go to work today or I got to go do this. No. It's something that you love to do that really gets you excited and you find that whatever field of endeavor it happens to be, and as I say, learn as much about it as you can get the fundamentals down, put that huge foundation down, keep learning, never be satisfied that you've gotten to the point that you've gotten to now and you're successful. You could always improve and get better. And if you do that, then you have a fighting chance. But you also now have a situation where I tell kids, it's one of the big number of things that I talked to them about, I tried to give them some good advice. I said, if there's nothing else that you get out of what I'm telling you here today, the one thing I'm going to tell you is to find something you love and have a passion for and learn as much about it as you can because then you'll never work for a living. Just think about it. I love basketball. I applied myself to basketball. Someone paid me to do what I love to do. That's not work.

Adam: I love that. Rick, in your career you played in a lot of high pressure moments. How-

Rick: I’m going to stop you there. Okay, excuse me if I do. Yeah, pressure does not exist. I hear this word so often. Especially in the sports world. Pressure does not exist in the real world unless you allow it to exist. What you are called upon to do in life? In certain situations, it's a critical situation, you may have to go and make a presentation for a multi million dollar deal and for your business, you have the ball in your hands with five seconds or 10 seconds on the clock and you're trailing by one. I mean, those are situations that are critical situations where pressure can become a factor, but only if you lack confidence in your ability to do what it is that you've trained to do. So if you've trained properly- and that's to me is the key to success. It’s confidence in your ability to perform at what it is you've trained to do. And if you have that confidence, you will never feel pressure. I've never in my entire life felt pressure in a basketball game. In fact, if I could have it, in a perfect world, I would hope that every game I played would have come down to the last 10 seconds With the ball in my hand.

Adam: What percentage of the NBA Do you think feels that way?

Rick: Not that many.

Adam: Interesting.

Rick: Yeah. And doing the broadcasting work and having played I saw some guys that the last thing that they’d ever want is the ball in their hands in those situations. But the great ones probably felt that way. But I even hear great ones talking about well, yeah, well, the pressure was tough and all, know if you really analyze it, and truly, and I'm saying this from firsthand experience, I know what it's like to feel pressure in sports, because it happened to me in my life one time, but I said, I'm never gonna let this happen again, where I'm not prepared to do what I'm supposed to be doing. It's the worst feeling in the world and you'll choke like a dog

Adam: What was the biggest risk you ever took in your career?

Rick: Well, the biggest risk I took was leaving to go to the ABA probably. I mean, that is a big risk. I mean, and it didn't work out to be the greatest at all because the league was terrible. And I wound up getting hurt when I went over there. And if I'd stayed in the NBA, and you know, I mean, I was an all pro player in my rookie year, which rarely ever happens. Everybody's oh, he was Rookie of the Year well, big deal. No, I was all pro first team. As a rookie, that's a big deal. And I led the league in scoring and was first team all pro again in my second year, and I left. I mean, so if I had stayed and probably given up one of the best years of my career that I would have had, if had I played that year, and stayed in the NBA, my stature in the game of basketball would be so much greater than what it is right now. Because people got all upset with me in the NBA because I wound up leaving. It actually changed the whole thing. I was Kurt Flood before Kurt Flood opened up the doors for free agency for guys to go ahead and get bigger contracts and change teams. It was a revolutionary thing. And so that was a risk on my part to do it. But everything in life happens for a reason. And so if that hadn't taken place in my journey in life and it hadn't gone through where it went through I wouldn't have the same friends I have today. And I wouldn't have the wife and the incredible young son that I have. He’s 25, he’s not so young anymore. But I wouldn't have that in my life because everything does happen in life for a reason. And you can't worry about things that don't work out for you. I tell people look if you have something happen in your life, that's really sad, cry, get over it and move on because you're not going to change what happened. Sitting around feeling sorry for yourself is not going to do you any good.

Adam: I couldn't agree with you more. What is your philosophy on how to develop a winning mindset?

Rick: Preparation. Don't just learn about what it is. You have to get confidence, learn it, do it over and over and over again, make sure you're doing it the proper way. Get really proficient at it to the point where you believe that you could be successful. And was I always successful? Heck no. I missed a lot of last second shots and made some plays that didn't work out well. But I thought I was going to do the right thing. I believed in myself. And if you get to that point, then you've got a strong will and you've got a strong determination and you have great confidence in your abilities. And that's what you want to have and that will help you to get through a lot of difficult situations. And just be prepared that you're going to fail sometimes. There was only one perfect human being and he got nailed to a cross.

Adam: How did you motivate yourself on the days you didn't feel motivated? And how did you try to motivate your teammates on the days that they didn't feel motivated?

Rick: Well, here's the thing. First of all, if you know what you're doing as a general manager, and you're a coach, the coach shouldn't have to worry about motivating his players, you should pick players that are self motivators. That's what I look for. If you got to motivate your guy, he's not the guy you want on your team. Seriously, if you have to motivate a player that you're paying money to, especially on the pro level, you got to motivate them, you made the wrong choice.

Adam: What about on a down day? I mean, you know, some days you-

Rick: Well you just encourage a guy. Just encourage him and just you know, I mean, certainly guys are going through some tough times. I think that in today's world, you know, in the old days coaches yell and scream and holler. I don't think players today relate well to that. I think you just need to be honest with your players, you need to communicate with them. You need to let them know that you have their best interests at heart. But I’d always tell my players when I did coach in the minor leagues- and I'm being selfish at this point, and you can't be selfish as a player, but I'm being selfish as a coach. And here's why I'm being selfish because I'm selfish. Because I'm going to try to tell you everything that's the best thing to do to help this team. And it may not be something that you think's in your best interest. I said, but trust me, it really is in your best interest. But it's more so in the interest of the team. And if you do that, you'll be rewarded for it and to stand behind and be a man of your word, and treat everybody fairly.

Adam: Rick, what are the best lessons that you instilled in your sons over the years that you believe allowed each of them to play at such a high level?

Rick: Well, first of all I do what my dad did to me which is I gave them the foundation to build on the fundamentals. So they had that. And then it was really up to them how much effort they wanted to put forth. But I also instilled the one other thing that my father instilled in me, which I think is a critical thing. And that is to always take great pride in what you do. And always give your best effort and everything that you do in life. And again, not being afraid to fail and learn through your mistakes. But I think that's the key to it is to always give your best effort, no matter what it is that you're doing. And then at least you can feel good about yourself that night and go to bed and sleep peacefully. Now, you probably wouldn't sleep that peacefully because you're gonna be upset about the fact that you may have lost and you made a mistake and that'll keep you awake for a while. But at least you know you tried your best, but man to go out and do something and know that you didn't try your best and then you fail that and how do you live with yourself if you're that type of person? I don't want that kind of person is my team and I can tell you that.

Adam: Rick for all of your accolades, many casual fans know you as the guy who shot free throws underhanded. I'm sure you hear that a lot. For listeners who are not aware Rick was the number one free throw shooter in NBA history when he retired. Rick is a strong advocate of others adopting his technique. How did you start shooting underhanded and did you ever feel embarrassed or afraid of doing something different that could potentially make you the subject of mockery?

Rick: Well, I didn't want to do it to start with because my dad said I should try it and I could be a better free throw shooter because I was like mid 70s. And so back then girls did it that way. So I thought I can't do that. Everybody's gonna make fun of me. And I remember like he said it yesterday. Son they can't make fun of you if you're making them. That's exactly what happens. So I tried it just to get him off my back. I really didn't want to do it but as I tried it and I gave a sincere effort doing it I said wow, this is actually pretty darn good. And so I worked on it that summer and then that next season in high school, I don’t know when, it was before junior senior year. I shot over 80% for the first time and I just kept getting better and better and I remember the first time I shot happened to be an away game and one of the fans is yelling Hey Mary you’re a big sissy shooting like that. And I heard so perfectly clear from the guy sitting next to him, what are you making fun of him for? He doesn’t miss! And from that point on, I was cool. Never bothered me at all. Because isn't the object to shoot the highest percentage possible> What difference does it make what form you use? The result is what matters and I had the result.

Adam: Rick, that's a great story. What is your best advice on how to get out of your comfort zone because clearly there are a lot of NBA players and who are not shooting and are not adopting your technique because they're afraid getting out of their comfort zone. And there are a lot of people who are not doing things that they could be doing to become better in whatever it is that they're doing professionally, because they're afraid of getting embarrassed or mocked or whatever it is. What is your advice on how listeners can get out of their comfort zone?

Rick: Well, I mean, everybody's a different individual. So I mean, anything that I say wouldn't be any help to them. Because I just did what I did. I mean, my whole thing is, is I wanted to be perfect. As I say, nobody, only one perfect person, I already told you that I just never was satisfied with what I was doing. I was always looking for the same thing in golf. I changed my putting stroke, somebody showed me a new putter to do something that made all the sense in the world and I changed it. You should always be willing to listen to advice and listen to things that can help you to improve what it is and become more successful at what you're doing. And so you should always have an open mind to that and again, just get to the point where I don't care what somebody else thinks about me, it's a matter of whether or not I'm happy with what I'm doing. And I was perfectly happy with what I was doing. Because what I was doing with free throws was better than 90, something 98% of the people doing it. And actually, actually more than that, along point, it was better than 100% of the people that were doing it. You know? So anyway, it's just a personal thing. So I really can't tell you how, but if I had an answer to that, I could probably market it and become a millionaire.

Adam: Rick, final question, and one that I know is relevant to a lot of listeners; what are your best tips on how to improve your jump shot?

Rick: Same thing, just learn the fundamentals. I mean, everything comes down to the fundamentals and then repeating it over and over again, but repeating it in a way that you're doing the fundamentals properly. The worst and the easiest thing in the world to do in life, is to develop a bad habit. One of the most difficult things to do is to break that bad habit. And so that's why I get back to what we initially talked about. You must learn the fundamental principles and concepts of what it is that you're doing. And in basketball, there are a number of things. The proper fundamentals in shooting the ball. And so if you learn the proper fundamentals in shooting the basketball and go out and practice them over and over again, you'll get more proficient at it, you'll get more confident in it, and you'll be successful at it. But if you don't know the fundamentals, and you go out and start shooting, you get all these bad habits. LeBron James is a perfect example of that. LeBron came into the NBA from a high school with horrible shooting form. And it took years before he ever changed it. It didn't happen until after I made a big deal about it when I was doing stuff in the Bay Area when they came to play the Warriors and one of the series that they played, and I said LeBron James will never be a good shooter. He has horrible shooting form. He's got a flying elbow. You can't be a good shooter with a flying elbow. They said, are you criticizing the coaching staff of the Golden Cavaliers? I said, hell yeah. I said, because I mean, for this guy, the great talent that he is, they have such poor shooting for him, and he's been in the league for three years and nobody's going to change it. What are they doing? What are they getting paid for and if you want to you just go look at some footage of LeBron and his first three years playing and see where his elbow is and see where it is now. He's a far better shooter now than he ever was. He's still not where he needs to be. He's never been an 80% free throw shooter, which to me is the point. If you can't shoot 80% from the free throw line, you can't call yourself a good free throw shooter. And LeBron’s never shot that. And I saw a statistic the other day, he's the second- he's missed the second most number of clutch free throws over the last 10 years in the history of the NBA for the players in the league the last 10 years. The only guy worse than him at missing free throws and clutch situations is Dwight Howard, who's now his teammate. And the two of them each missed two of them in a game the other day against Milwaukee he lost. So that's what it comes down to. I mean you have to learn the fundamental principles and concepts of what it is then go out and practice it over and over and over again, till you get it to the point where you have great confidence in it and you're going to get better doing it if you have the proper fundamentals.

Adam: Growing up, Rick, I remember you were a staunch advocate for Shaq shooting underhanded free throws. Maybe LeBron will heed your advice.

Rick: Oh Lebron, you know, he's up in the 75 range, he's gotten better, he just needs to have refined it. I mean, the problem is somebody wasn't working with him enough to get it to that point. And I honestly do believe that mentally, I don't think he really likes going to the free throw line late in games. When I dorve I wanted to get fouled, knowing that I'm gonna make some baskets. And now I got three points instead of two. And if I didn't make the basket, I'm gonna make two. I don't think LeBron has that mindset. I don't think he has that confidence that we talked about. And then you know, Shaq's career would have changed if he would have lived it but he's just said he was a hip hop kind of guy and he said he you know, it would ruin his image. Well, the problem is it cost him championships. There's no doubt about it. Shaquille O'Neal shooting 80% for the free throw line when he, in his career, at the end of the game, basically, you would have no chance of beating the Lakers because all you do is throw it to him in the post and the game is over.

Adam: Yeah, I remember those days very well. Like they were yesterday. So Rick, before you go tell our listeners about your new podcast.

Rick: Yes, it's Warriors 24. I'm doing with Cyrus Saatsaz, who was actually a producer of mine when I did Sports Radio for cambiar in San Francisco. Warriors 24. We talked about the Warriors, but we actually get into a lot of stuff in the NBA because with the Warriors there's not a lot to talk about right now. A team that went from the penthouse to the outhouse, and they're struggling mightily. And so tune in, you can check it out, just go to Apple podcasts and put Warriors 24 in there and find that so hopefully, you'll enjoy it. Have a lot of fun doing it. And I've always liked talking about the game that I love so much,

Adam: Rick, thank you for joining us. It was a pleasure. I appreciate your advice and appreciate everything you shared and thank you for being a part of the show.

Rick: Well, happy to join you and God bless you and your listeners. Thank you.