I recently interviewed Ricky Williams on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is a Heisman Trophy winner, and former NFL Pro running back. Ricky Williams spent over a decade in the NFL, leading the league in rushing in 2002, and is a member of the College Football Hall of Fame. Ricky is also an entrepreneur and is the founder of Highman, a cannabis lifestyle brand. Ricky, thank you for joining us.

Ricky: Yeah, thanks for having me.

Adam: You grew up in San Diego in a single-parent home. And as a kid, you struggled: you struggled with anger, you struggled academically, even though you took aptitude tests that showed that you had an exceptionally high level of intelligence. How did you turn things around and set yourself on the course that ultimately led you to superstardom at the University of Texas?

Ricky: The answer is, it's really about mindset. It's really about mindset, and then the idea of at the core of the mindset of determining, in my life, who makes the rules. So from the outside, you know, people say you struggled with anger or struggled academically. But it's anger, like how much anger I'm supposed to show or not supposed to show is something that is dictated socially. And depending on gender, race, there's a certain level of aggression or assertion that you're allowed to express, again, and then academically. And there's plenty of studies that show that the nature of our education is very European dominant. And so there's kind of a missing part. And so a lot of minorities struggle with education, because it's not really about educating about the truth, it's about teaching us how to view the world. And so I think any truly intelligent person needs to struggle a little bit academically because ultimately, success in life comes from being able to take in information but to discern what is true and what is not. And if you just take your academics, your education, you know, full wholesale, you're probably not going to be very successful in life. And so it's just mindset, you know, and I think playing sports really helped in being able to view life as a game, you know, and realize that, you know, we're playing the Steelers, or the Bucs defense that it's harder, right? It's gonna, I'm gonna, it's gonna hurt more after that game. But it's a challenge. It's something that I have to face. And I think I just approach life that way, then everything that comes to me good, bad or indifferent, is here to make me a better person. And so that perspective always leads to becoming more successful 100% of the time. And so I think I just found the formula that works.

Adam: Ricky, I love it. And throughout this conversation, we're gonna touch on themes that you spoke about: mindset, being able to overcome obstacles. You've had your fair share of highs, your fair share of lows, but you've been able to continually persevere. And I want to start with one of the highs of your journey, which was your time at the University of Texas, you won the highest man award, you set numerous NCAA records, you had one of the best careers in the history of college football. And during that same four-year period, you also played four seasons of minor league baseball. What did you do to become such an elite performer? And what are your best tips for anyone listening on how they can reach peak physical performance?

Ricky: Well, it's funny, I feel like, you know, my answer to this question is pretty much the same answer to the last question. It's really about mindset. And I think the first thing is that, you know, the way that we're taught to look at life and the way to a certain extent, we experience life, because the way we're taught is that we experience life’s ups and downs, right? It's like when we're a kid, and we do something we're not supposed to do we get punished. So we experience it down. And we do something that our parents are happy with. We experience it up. And so we just get on this roller coaster of life of ups and downs. And I think anyone who stays on that rollercoaster, even if they are, quote, unquote successful, and there is a high- it doesn't deliver anything. And when there is a low, typically they suffer more. And the same result, it doesn't really deliver anything. And I had a coach. And he said something to us one time, and it just seared into my mind because it felt so true. He was talking about us reading about ourselves in the media. And he said, you're never as good as they say. And you're never as bad as they say, right? And the idea is, when things are quote, unquote, Ups, right, it's never as good as we think it is. And when things are quote, unquote, down it is never as bad as we think it is. And so really, it's just about mindset and realizing that everything good, bad, or however you want to label it that comes to us in life is here to help us become a better person. And if we can filter through that lens then, again, the end result is always success.

Adam: Ricky, what you say resonates. I never played in the NCAA, I never played it down in the NFL. But as an entrepreneur, you experience enormous highs, you experience enormous lows, and they're largely artificial. It's just part of the journey of being an entrepreneur. And I want to ask you if you could dive a little bit deeper into the topic of mindset, mindfulness. What are some concrete tips that you would share with listeners on how to develop a healthy and winning mindset?

Ricky: First thing is to destroy all your fantasies. That's number one. Because if you're living in fantasies, there can never be real success. Right? And all our fantasies can comfort us and make us feel better. That's not always a positive thing. And so it's a difficult first step, but it's the most important and most vital step. And to be specific, what I mean by fantasies is any thought process where we have, if things were different than life would be better. If something were different in life, something would be- that's a fantasy. It's always a fantasy. Okay. So I think like, you know, the first stage to being successful is being in reality. And that's, you know, people call it humility. And I think that's looking in the mirror and being clear of like, what am I really successful at, and where do I struggle, and just getting really, really clear, getting really clear with that, and forgetting about all the ways you struggle, and putting all your energies into the ways that you feel successful things that you engage in that you do that, that reward you with something. And if you start to invest your energy in things that feel good to you, then your life will start to manifest that good feeling more and more consistently. And so part of it is being vigilant, you know? It's being vigilant with yourself, and not allowing negative thoughts, justifications, excuses, and blame ever to exist in your mind. Because, by definition, all of them, are loser mentality. And as long as you allow a loser mentality to exist in your life that will manifest in your life, as long as you invite reality. But feeling good, as long as you make feeling good a priority in your life, even though a lot of us are taught we're not supposed to do that. But if you make feeling good a priority in your life, and you eliminate negativity, the end result is your life will improve.

Adam: Ricky, so many great points there: eliminate negativity, focus on the positive, don't beat yourself up, focus on what you can control. There's so much that we can't control that, unfortunately, we spend our time and energy focusing on eliminating that. And finally, the importance of self-awareness, which is, in my view, one of the most important characteristics of an effective leader. And to that end, I wanted to ask you about the topic of leadership. You've played for all kinds of coaches, you've played with all kinds of teammates. Who are the best leaders that you played for, and played with? And what do you believe are the key characteristics of a great leader?

Ricky: Hmm. So I think first, I think a great leader inspires other people to be leaders in their own lives. So one example is if I were head coach of a football team, alright? The first thing I would do is I would try to find out who on this team, okay, doesn't really want to be here. Because true leadership is helping people find that spark of desire inside of them, where they believe in themselves enough to go forward no matter what. And as a leader, if you surround yourself with those kinds of people aligned to the same goal, you know, that success. And as the group becomes successful, each individual becomes more successful. And as each individual becomes more successful, it contributes to the success of the group. And in my mind, that's the only way to be truly successful. I think this old model of success has been about alienating ourselves from ourselves in order to win, you know, win at all cost. And I think in that way, the whole form of leadership is who can lead you to do things that are against your own inner nature. And I think that that old form of leadership needs to go. And I think we need to redefine what leadership is. And so, you know, I think right now, it's, at least in my mind, it's safe to keep a question mark about what is leadership because I think it's a time where our models of leadership need to expand and evolve.

Adam: I love it, Ricky, and to share with listeners, a quote that I love sharing with the students that I teach, I like sharing it with audiences, I speak to President Dwight Eisenhower's definition of leadership; “leadership is the art of getting someone else to do something you want done, because he wants to do it.” And it aligns with your point, Ricky, which is, number one, making sure that you have players on your team who want to be there, making sure that you have people within your organization who want to be there. That's the first step. And then number two, connecting at a level that you can truly understand what drives that person. So whatever it is that they're doing, they're doing it because they want to do it, not because you're telling them, they have to do it, not because you're commanding them to do it, but because they want to do it.

Ricky: Well, I would go a step beyond that because so much of what we quote want to do and don't want to do is conditioned. And I think it's, you know, part of our inner journey is to find out, you know, that quiet voice deep inside, what it wants us to do in and align that with what we're doing out in the world. And so I think a true leader, it kind of has to be a spiritual leader, because of this idea of leading a person back to what they're meant to be doing. Because I don't want to lead someone to do something that they're not meant to be doing. I think that's abuse.

Adam: I agree with you completely. And to your point, it starts with making sure that you have the right people on the team, that you have the right people in your organization. If you're bringing someone onto your football team who doesn't have a love for football, who doesn't have a passion for football, things probably aren't going to work out. If you're a CEO of a manufacturing company, and you're bringing someone in to work in a factory and they have no interest in manufacturing, they have no interest in working in a factory, that person is probably not going to be very good at the job, that person's probably not going to last very long at the job.

Ricky: External. Because I don't know, I think it's- So I think when two things come together, in order for there to be a fit, both things have to change. And I think this is the beauty of creation. And so I, for me, it's always a question mark. So someone comes in, and they might not have a specific interest, but they have some interest. And so trying to connect on like, what are you here to do? How did you want to contribute? And can we find use for that in this space? And if we can, let's attempt it. If we can't, maybe this isn't the right fit. You know, I've always thought with coaches and sports teams, front office, to me, if you bring a player in, okay, you make the effort to scout and bring a player in, it's up to you to get the most out of that player. And so, you know, understanding how does he fit in our system? And how can we make sure to utilize his abilities to the greatest advantage? Right, because I think part of leadership is you have to put people in a position to be successful. That's how they build confidence because life is always a process of development. And we can't expect people to be perfect. We have to see their potential and then be willing to see if they are willing to step up into that potential and if they are, you can win. If they're not, you know, they're just not ready yet.

Adam: Ricky could not agree with you more. I think you said it perfectly. The point that I was trying to illustrate and I'll give a concrete example, the Angels had a pitcher named Ty Buttrey. And I don't know how many listeners are big Angels fans, listeners of this podcast know that I love the Angels. And Ty Buttrey has an incredible arm. He was one of the most talented relief pitchers for the Angels. But he really just didn't have a passion for baseball. And in the prime of his career, he walked away from baseball, he announced that he never really had a passion for the game. He never really enjoyed playing baseball, it was something that he did because it was expected of him. And he finally reached a point in his life where he said, I just don't want to do this with my life. And the team, the leadership, Joe Maddon said to him, if this isn't what you want to do with your life, if you don't like baseball, if you don't enjoy baseball, go find your passion, go do what you want to do, go do what you're meant to do.

Ricky: Yeah, I think that's great leadership. There's various types of great leadership because, you know, the truth is- and I've seen this in my life, and so many other people's lives- if you're doing something that you're not supposed to do, and you're not listening to the inner cues, that maybe you should be doing something else. The messages are going to get louder and more uncomfortable until you finally wake up. And so that's why I'm saying if there are people on my team that need to be doing something else, I don't need that tragedy that makes them wake up for that to happen on my watch. And so that's why I'm saying, if you're not meant to be here, something's gonna happen where you're gonna get out here. Let's make it easy. And let me support you in being where you're supposed to be.

Adam: Who were the best leaders that you played for, or played with, and what did you learn from them?

Ricky: Right, you know, I don't want to rank leaders, I mean, because you know, you can go in and look at records of our teams, because I think that's how leadership is judged. But personally, for me, I got something from all head coaches, you know? I was that person in the front row the first day of training camp with my- actually had my pen and my notepad out because especially in the NFL coaches, or philosophers, you know, the coach's main job is to instill a culture. And so sitting in front of a coach, you hear their philosophy over and over and over and over again. And I would say, in that context, the best leaders were the ones who actually embodied what came out of their mouth, because, you know, especially me, I'm a keen observer of people. And to me, I want to believe in my coach, I want to believe in the culture, I want to believe in what we're building. But it becomes difficult to believe in someone when what they say and what they do are not aligned. And I think whether we're aware of that or not, unconsciously we start to lose respect, and a leader starts losing his authority when that starts to happen. And so I'd say in that sense, I played for Nick Saban for a year, and he was someone who, what came out of his mouth and the way you felt when you experienced him were aligned. And so you know, it's easier to believe in and trust a person like that. And I think trust is probably the number one thing that a leader has to engender in the people that he's leading.

Adam: Ricky, excellent themes; the importance of leading by example, and the importance of building trust. Key themes that we hear over and over from the great leaders that we hear from on this podcast. As a running back, you put your body through incredible physical pressure every time you got on the field, not to mention all the hours you put into training. How did you motivate yourself on the days that you didn't feel motivated? And what are your best tips on the topic of motivation?

Ricky: Motivation? Ah, again, I think I mean, this is like part of me, I guess, to me, there's inspiration and there's motivation. And I think motivation is how you get yourself to do something that you don't want to do. And I think if you're leaning too much into motivation, it probably means you're doing something that you shouldn't be doing. And I think when you need to be motivated, look for inspiration. And if you look for inspiration, and you get motivation, then you know you're on the right track.

Adam: Can you share a concrete example of a time that you just weren't feeling it and how did you pull yourself out of it?

Ricky: Well, just that it's simple. Like, if I'm sitting on the couch and there's like the Friday Workout, because in the NFL the way it used to be in the offseason, we have four days we had to work out. And if you miss a day then Friday's a makeup day. And so maybe I was traveling on Monday, and it's Thursday night or Friday morning, and I'm thinking, do I want to go to this optional non-optional workout? You know, and then I stared at the big picture, you know, like, what am I doing with my life? And then I go to wow, you know, I want to be one of the best running backs in the league. And then it clicks into me, okay? Is this choice going to contribute to that larger picture? And if it's a yes, then there should be an energy that gets me up and moving. And if it's a no, then that's information to me. Is this really what I want? It's tricky, because, obviously, in order to accomplish our goals, we need to stay engaged and active and we need to keep putting in the energy. We need to stay inspired. But I think so often, the way people use motivation is how do I motivate myself to get something that I want, to do something I don't want to do? I think if you stay inspired, you don't really need so much motivation, alright? Or you need less motivation.

Adam: Speaking of inspired, you felt inspired over the course of your life since retiring as a football player to start several different businesses, Real Wellness, a line of herbal wellness products, Lila, an Astrology app, and most recently, Highman, a cannabis lifestyle brand. What are the best lessons you've learned from your time as an entrepreneur?

Ricky: The best lessons have really just been affirmations and an extension of the lessons I learned as a football player. You know, I think first and foremost is the importance of the team. Now, I think it's different being a team member and being the leader that's creating the team. And taking everything I've learned from being on football teams and seeing how teams function well, and how they don't. And applying that into a new field, in a new area. And, you know, the way coaches talk to football players is very different from how CEOs talk to their employees, but really, it's really bringing all the same principles that I learned about being successful on the football field, and experimenting and seeing how they work in business. Again, a big part of that is creating a team. And this has probably been the most profound lesson that I've learned about creating a team because my sense of where I've come from a football team is all men. And it is a kind of family, you know, kind of like soldiers, right? We're going through difficult things together, and there's certain expectations and that dynamic allows us to do really intense work to coordinate it together, okay? But because we're all men, there's not the interpersonal dynamics that can come in when men and women interact, there's guy stuff, but it doesn't really interfere so much, sometimes, but not so much within our ability to do our jobs. So for me, there's an expectation that when we get together to do work, that there's a certain level of honesty, you know? In a locker room, we'd see each other naked. You know, there's a certain level of vulnerability that allows us to work at a certain intensity because there's a certain level of trust. And when doing this in the business world, you don't have the raw material of competition and all the things that sports brings up. And so what I've seen is the fodder that brings up the energy that allows that kind of intimacy, and closeness are people's personal issues, you know, and realizing, and people come together to work, everyone comes in with wounds of their past work experiences, right? Especially when you think of where it's high stress like the startup world, and it's so easy for things to stumble, and then it's so easy to point fingers and, you know. So all of this stuff, you know, comes to the surface. And for me, sometimes I'm baffled. It's like how do they successfully navigate all of this stuff? And my tendency is not to pretend it's not there or wash it away. It's like this is the juice that helps us come together. So a big part of leadership is- as you know, I'm in my mid-40s, and I feel like I've lived enough to be confident enough that I have a sense of how to move forward. But I have to bring myself to the table as a leader and all of my, you know, all my weird ideas and ways I look at things like I have to bring all of those to the table to be an effective leader. And so, you know, the courage to be myself even though it might be uncomfortable for other people, it's really been the biggest thing, the biggest challenge, and I think the beauty of entrepreneurship is that it's similar to football, you have to figure it out, right? And so it pushes you towards authenticity because the only way to truly lead in work is to have people trust you and to do it consistently. So, again, it's reinforcing the same lessons. And the other thing I've learned as an entrepreneur is, and luckily, I've always known this- you’ve got to keep learning, you know? I have some expertise because of what I've done, but I'm in a completely different world. And so I've had to become a child again, and really start from, you know, that humble beginning of, you know, what is marketing, what is business and really, you know, I don't have an MBA, you know? I spent most of my time getting an NFL, so it's just learning, you know, and being humble enough to recognize where I don't know something and leaning on my team members to help me catch up.

Adam: You shared so many things that I want to highlight for listeners that are essential to being a great leader, the importance of being comfortable in your own skin, having self-confidence, being authentic, and something that listeners have heard me say over and over and over again- the best leaders are lifelong learners. It's something that I've learned by virtue of interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders. The most successful people are those who have the mindset that they don't know as much as they should, even though they know more than 99.99% of the people out there. They want to continually grow, they want to continually learn, they want to continually develop. And they have the humility, that even though they've attained enormous success, to continue to succeed, they need to continue to learn and continue to grow.

Ricky: Yeah, I mean, I've known that but it's really in my face, you know, again, that feeling after being an expert in one area sitting in a meeting and being like, I have no idea. They're talking to me like I should know what they're saying, but I have no idea what they're talking about, you know? And then having the humility to go to my CFO, and like saying, can we spend a day or an hour together so I can speak this language and understand, you know, because, as I surround myself with the team they don't know what I know, and what I don't know. And so the humility of a leader to take advantage of the team, right? And it's up to me. It's so important. The other thing that came to mind when you were talking is, I think, in creating a work environment, you know, whether that's physical or virtual. I think the thing is, people need to feel like when they come to work, that they're getting something more than a paycheck. Yeah. And I think that's what I mean by inspiration. And what I offer, you know, to the people working with me as an inspiration is, so I'm an astrologer. And I think one of the beautiful things about astrology is it allows you to see who someone really is. And I think that's such a rare gift to truly be seen for who we are. And so that's one of the things that I engender in the workspace, is that we're going to see you for who you really are. For instance, if you're a sensitive person, okay, we're gonna take that into consideration. Okay, if you need alone time, okay, we're going to take that into consideration, we're not going to put the same expectations on everyone, we're going to recognize that each individual is unique, and for each person to be seen, and to show up as their unique self is ultimately what's gonna contribute to our success. And so that's probably the thing I'm most solidly committed to in everything that I do.

Adam: Ricky, want to highlight one thing you shared. If you're the smartest person in the room, you're in the wrong room. The best leaders surround themselves with exceptional advisors. They hire the best people they can and lean on them. They're not afraid to ask questions. In fact, great leaders ask great questions. And one question I want to ask you, Ricky, before we go; over the course of your career, you were labeled different. You clearly had a hard time conforming and adapting within the NFL bureaucracy, much in the way that so many people have a hard time conforming and adapting within the bureaucracies of the organizations that they work for. Yet, despite all the ups and downs, you managed to carve out an incredibly successful career rushing for more than 10,000 yards, scoring 74 touchdowns. Two questions for you. What advice do you have for people like you, like me, like so many of us who are, quote-unquote, different, on how to thrive when we find ourselves in settings where we're outliers? That's question number one. Question number two is what advice do you have for leaders on how to create organizational cultures that bring out the best in all people, including those who think outside the box and live outside the box?

Ricky: Yeah, yeah. So great, great questions. And the answers are related, I think. I have a mentor, Steven, and Steven, one of his favorite sayings, is reframing your confusion as understanding. And I'll explain that a little bit more, but it's related to purpose. And so meaning for me, being different, right, instead of getting stuck in the story of it's a bad thing I asked myself, I reframe it as what is the purpose? What is the purpose of being different? And one of the purposes of being different is you give other people the permission to be different. And the truth to be yourself is, guess what? You have to be different. Right. And so, you know, and I think the purpose of being different is innovation. Right? And I think as a leader when you see these people that are different, okay, be curious about their perspective, and how it can be incorporated into, into what you're already doing. Because the people that see things differently, they're the ones that bring the new ideas to us, right? If we didn't have people that were different, we'd still be in caves eating raw meat.

Adam: Ricky, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Ricky: Oh, thanks for having me. It's great.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

Follow Adam on Instagram and Twitter at @adammendler and listen and subscribe to Thirty Minute Mentors on your favorite podcasting app.