Prioritizing Ethical Behavior Is Essential: Interview with Author Rob Docters

I recently went one on one with Rob Docters, co-author of Ethics and Hidden Greed: Your Defense against Unethical Strategies and Violations of Trust.

Adam: Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice. First things first, though, I am sure readers would love to learn more about you. How did you get here? What experiences, failures, setbacks, or challenges have been most instrumental to your growth?

Rob: Regarding how I got here: it's been a twisted but informative path. I have worked as an attorney in Texas, an executive at a leading UK publisher, a strategy consultant, a pricing expert, and an author. This book stems from a conversation with a brilliant CEO of a large company, who commented that she often felt like she was being cheated when making a purchase but couldn't quite pinpoint how or when. Unfortunately, this is a common problem many people experience without realizing it. This inspired my book, where we explore why this happens and how greed and deception have become more sophisticated while our ability to detect them has not kept up.

Adam: What do you hope readers take away from your new book?

Rob: I want readers to be equipped with effective strategies to combat greedy tactics. Greed has evolved significantly in the last 20 years. The pushy salespeople and outrageous offers that were once prevalent are not as successful today—the Brooklyn Bridge has not been “sold”: for a while. Instead, consumers need to be wary of misrepresentation, companies hiding crucial product information, incomplete packages, and the use of language theft.

Adam: In your view, how important is ethics to leadership and why?

Rob: Ethics is critical to effective leadership and running a thriving business. While it may seem unethical practices could yield higher profits, research conducted on 300 companies over 15 years showed that ethical companies generally made 7% more profit than their dishonest counterparts.

Beyond the financial benefits, running an ethical business also impacts the company's efficiency and how its employees and the public view them. As a leader, setting a positive example and actively prioritizing ethical behavior is essential. Leaders who only pay lip service to ethical principles must follow through with actions to be effective.

Adam: What do you believe are the defining qualities of an effective leader? 

Rob: Influential leaders who prioritize ethics do things differently from what traditional business school teachings might suggest. They don't rely on a passive approach, hoping to catch unethical behavior. Instead, they implement a proactive system that will track all departments and employees. This requires the involvement and assistance of numerous team members. Incentivizing whistleblowing or other reporting mechanisms is crucial. It's essential to make employees understand that it's not just an option but their responsibility to speak up if they encounter unethical practices. 

Effective leaders know that promoting an ethical culture requires a deliberate, targeted effort rather than merely hoping for the best and opportunistic intervention.

Adam: How can leaders and aspiring leaders take their leadership skills to the next level?

Rob: Aspiring leaders have a choice in how they approach ethics within their organizations. Are they insisting that their conduct and, eventually, their subordinates' conduct is ethical? Leading by example and promoting ethical behavior throughout the company makes a significant impact. AT&T Canada is an excellent example of a company that turned things around through ethical leadership. The CEO addressed reports of harassment by cutting ties with accounts that violated ethical standards, which sent a strong message throughout the organization. This decision ultimately led to a cultural shift within the company and improved its financial standing.

Adam: What are your three best tips applicable to entrepreneurs, executives, and civic leaders?

Rob: First, be clear on your objectives beyond just wanting higher profits. Determine specific goals like building the best product, capturing a market, or leading customer satisfaction. Second, find champions who relate to you and set them up as examples for others. Give them attention and encourage them to be aggressive and take risks. Third, establish a symbol of leadership that includes penalties for not following ethical standards. For example, if employees cheat on a pricing engine, leaders must clarify that there will be consequences, including termination. Consistency with all of these points will build a profitable work culture.

Adam: How can leaders build trust?

Rob: Effective leaders can build trust by setting an example with their own decisions. They must lead by example, even when it is not the easiest or most profitable choice. Building trust with employees and stakeholders requires consistent ethical behavior, not just a superficial attempt to appear moral. Leaders must make difficult decisions, such as keeping promises and avoiding unethical practices. By doing so, leaders demonstrate that they prioritize integrity and are committed to upholding ethical standards. This approach builds trust and respect among their team and the wider community.

It's important to be aware that two types of trust are essential for building trust: narrow trust and ongoing trust. Narrow trust is earned for a large one-off purchase, where customers want to ensure that all criteria, including future promises, are met. Broad trust is for repeated transactions, where customers want to feel confident in the company and not have to do a complete analysis with every routine purchase.

Adam: What is the single best piece of advice you have ever received?

The people you hire and work with reflect on you: good or bad. A scholar from long ago identified two traits that are hard for untrustworthy people to mimic, which is still true to this day: a sense of humor about the world and a sense of gratitude. If someone lacks these traits, they may feel entitled and not act in a trustworthy manner. 

Adam: Is there anything else you would like to share? 

Rob: As my co-author and I wrote our book, we realized that fighting greed is not just a figurative concept but a real battle that requires ongoing vigilance. This was evident when hackers breached the White House computers a few years ago. The security team had to engage in what the head of security described as "hand-to-hand" combat to eradicate the malicious programs. It's important to remember that greed doesn't give up quickly, and we must be prepared to defend against it with determination and consistency.

This doesn't mean that ethical behavior is ineffective. On the contrary, it's a powerful tool that can make a real difference in the fight against greed. By staying committed to ethical principles and being aware of the challenges we may face, we can build a better future for ourselves and others. Of course, you must be wise and ethical—dumb does not win. So stay positive and focused on the importance of our ethics, even in the face of resistance.


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally-recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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