I recently went one on one with Robert Jordan. Bob is the co-founder and CEO of InterimExecs and the author of the new book Right Leader Right Time.

Adam: Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice. First things first, though, I am sure readers would love to learn more about you. How did you get here? What experiences, failures, setbacks or challenges have been most instrumental to your growth?

Bob: Failure? When I was 26 I dropped out of grad school to launch my first company, Online Access, which was the first magazine worldwide to cover online services. Two years later I was walking into federal bankruptcy court in Chicago - the business went bust.

I held a pity party for a week (just one person invited), then decided I had done some things right - for example, we had lots of subscribers, really high sell-through on newsstands, and strong advertisers. But I had also made lots of assumptions that just weren’t necessary. Going bust allowed me to reset…everything. I bought the rights out of bankruptcy, relaunched, eventually got on the Inc 500 list for fastest growing companies. Ran for 10 years, then sold the assets to a big publisher. 

Adam: In your experience, what are the key steps to growing and scaling your business? 

Bob: I took on a really weird career calling, becoming an interim CEO, after I sold Online Access. While I had some success taking on projects with early stage tech companies (I’ve been in three IPOs and helped lead a number of high multiple exits to strategic buyers) I realized that I was not nearly as good as the operating executives who were showing up on our domain doorstep (we own domains like interimCEO, interimCFO, interimCIO).

So when you ask how I scaled, the answer is: I got out of the way. I co-founded InterimExecs and co-created the RED Team, a worldwide group of rock star leaders. I don’t take on gigs anymore. I am a far better rainmaker and promoter of leadership versus being the operating executive.

And the practical answer is, I also got much better at picking partners and employees - who could grow and scale.

Adam: What are your best tips on building, leading and managing teams?

Bob: Great question! That completely depends on whether you are wired as a Fixer, Artist, Builder or Strategist Leader, and whether you are in the right role in the right situation. Which is why we wrote RIght Leader Right Time. There is no single person who is best in all roles and so I don’t believe in a pat generic answer that solves all cases, all situations. What I believe: for the Fixer, velocity is mantra. For Artist, creation. For Builder, market. And for Strategist, cadence. From that point of unique wiring, if deployed to best advantage, you then experience better leadership.

Adam: What do you hope readers take away from your new book?

Bob: In the course of a decade and 5,600 executives showing up at InterimExecs, and then having a ringside seat deploying leaders into organizations, we observed that the majority of leaders have careers that are just “so-so.” Not great, not superlative. Most executives tend to dilute their experience, tend to take more detours - and worse, have less awareness of it. We think of three D’s leading to a “blah” career: dilution, detour, delusion. 

We hope readers take this away: stand for something. Have a voice. It takes time, but come to embrace and commit to that which is for your highest and best use.

Adam: What do you believe are the defining qualities of an effective leader? 

Bob: Great leaders do three things better: they double down within their own particular leadership style; they don’t hide; and they collaborate more effectively by being “spiky” (contributing unique capabilities) and making sure the team is accretive (everyone on the team has unique “spikiness.”)

Adam: How can leaders and aspiring leaders take their leadership skills to the next level? 

Bob: They need to do something that is very hard to do in practice. Effective leaders reject that which is not for their highest and best use.

At risk of career and prosperity and power and status - they commit to something that in a way is bigger than themselves.

Adam: What are your three best tips applicable to entrepreneurs, executives and civic leaders? 

Bob: You’ll see tips above so I’ll elaborate on one point. If you remember the former CEO of Wells Fargo called to testify at a US Senate committee for committing fraud (there’s a great YouTube video of his testimony) - WF employees had opened millions of accounts that were not authorized by their customers - you’ll see a great example of a leader ducking for cover. He said that in his role as CEO he wasn’t really responsible for making decisions.

He was later barred for life from serving again at a bank.

So my advice is: don’t hide. Be held accountable. It doesn’t mean you have to be perfect, but if you can be as genuine as your team members you stand a chance of forming a group that will become cohesive and high performing.

You want a current example of hiding? Check out upset Disney employees hosting this website about their CEO, Bob Chapek: WhereisChapek.com. 

Adam: What is the single best piece of advice you have ever received?

Bob: There are no victims, only willing volunteers.

Adam: Is there anything else you would like to share?

Bob: Great questions! Thank you.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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