Be Both Strong and Kind: Interview with Author Seth Freeman

I recently went one on one with Seth Freeman. Seth teaches negotiations courses at Columbia University and NYU Stern and is the author of the new book 15 Tools to Turn the Tide: A Step-by-Step Playbook for Empowered Negotiating.

Adam: Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice. First things first, though, I am sure readers would love to learn more about you. How did you get here? What experiences, failures, setbacks, or challenges have been most instrumental to your growth? 

Seth: Thank you, Adam. As I often say, I used to practice corporate law; now, I enjoy my life. I was a corporate attorney with major law firms in New York City for several years. Then I discovered my delight in teaching when I started out teaching law to paralegals, and that led to my first work teaching in business school. Around the same time, I discovered a passion for conflict management and trained to become a volunteer mediator. I mediated several disputes, including two between wives and their husbands' mistresses. They settled. I was astounded that the process could help people agree who didn’t even want to be in the same room initially. That experience led me to begin learning about, and eventually teach, negotiation and conflict management. I’ve never worked a day in my life since; I only think about the subject 10 hours a day!

Adam: What do you hope readers take away from your new book?

Seth: Imagine your boss calls to say the merger fell through, and you and she are about to get fired. What would you do? Most of us would be bewildered, but Dick Sherman saved the day using tools the book highlights. His story illustrates three things I want readers to take from the book.

First, customized tools- checklists, mnemonics, play cards, and the like- help you negotiate well in ways mere principles alone can’t; they’re like apps you can use when needed. Dick immediately deployed one the moment he got the call. Second, they work; veteran negotiators swear by them, and students love them. In fact, my students’ students- or ‘grandstudents’- can use them effectively with less than an hour of coaching. “Wow!” a grandstudent said recently after a successful job negotiation- “that was easy, and to think I almost didn’t try.” Even kids can use some. Dick said he wouldn’t have even tried without the tool he used, but it made all the difference. And third, tools especially show their worth when you face pressure- when you’re dealing with Godzilla or the effects of recession or inflation, or you’re under time pressure. They help you survive and thrive. Just like Dick did. 

Adam: What are your best tips for inexperienced negotiators? 

Seth: Well, first, there are a few things any good instructor will share: “Prepare. Know your priorities. Learn theirs. Research. Ask questions. Listen.” All vital and learnable skills. But here’s the thing: what if a client calls and says your team has 20 minutes to meet an impossible deadline, and everyone’s fighting as minutes tick away? Then the good advice I just mentioned tends to evaporate from your mind. But when you’ve got tools to turn to, you can let them ease your cognitive burden and actually deploy that advice in real time. The kind of crisis I just mentioned happened to someone I described in the book, and ideas baked into a simple tool helped her save the day. 

Adam: What are your best tips for seasoned negotiators?

Seth: It’s a funny thing - UN diplomats, deals team leaders, and corporate law partners have all confided in me that even though they have lots of experience, they don’t feel they really know what they’re doing. So the first tip is to know you’re not alone if you feel that way. The second: experienced negotiators need regular practice. NYPD Hostage Negotiators regularly roleplay to keep their chops up, and these are seasoned pros handling the toughest talks of all. Third: beware of ‘standard practice.’ I was shocked to realize that an Issues List, a tool popular with my own people, corporate lawyers, is often so poorly designed that it invites positional arguments and obscures opportunities. Even some very basic things can dramatically improve even seasoned negotiators’ results. Most negotiators- even seasoned ones- don’t know the power of knowing their priorities. So, for example, simply ranking which issues in an Issues List are most important can make a big difference, allowing you to focus on what matters and trade the cheap for the dear. And that’s just one fix. One other tip: keep in mind most deals are bad. Harvard Business Review found about 90% of all mergers fail, and these are enormous deals handled by seasoned negotiators. The goal is not to get to yes; it’s to get to wise yes or wise no. ‘No’ is often the right answer.

 Adam: What do you believe are the biggest misconceptions about negotiations and why? 

Seth: I recently saw a Congressional hearing where a Congressman told the US Trade Representative she was too nice to negotiate for the US. The irony is that she’s one of the most effective reps we’ve had, and business groups and others have given her awards for her ability. We often think negotiation is about talking fast, loud, and long, thinking fast on your feet, and winning through intimidation. It is - in movies and TV shows. There, the goal is to up the drama. But drama and ill-will is the exact opposite of what skilled negotiators want. Or we think that to get along, we need to ‘just be nice’ and not advocate well for our needs. That’s not true either. The key is to be both strong and kind so the relationship and your needs are well served. Most think that’s impossible, and it is… if you don’t have help. Tools help you shift from being ineffectively mean or weak to winning warmly, being hard on the problem, soft on the person. 

I’ll give you one more misconception: negotiation isn’t just about salaries and cars and houses; it happens anytime people need to decide something and start in different places. Budgeting. Project team leadership. Office politics. Family decisions. Disputes. Conflicts. Group decisions. Even where to spend a vacation. It’s a vast universe. 

Adam: In your experience, what are the biggest important pitfalls for negotiators to look out for, and how can they be avoided and overcome? 

Seth: Simple: the false belief that “yes” is the goal and “no” is failure. Anyone can get to yes; my 12-year-old can do it. “Just sign here, dear.” Barry Nalebuff made millions founding HonestTea™ but has one word of advice for would-be entrepreneurs: “don’t” - don’t start a venture, he says, because you can include one flaw in just one of the deals you enter and- poof!- lose the business. What to do? Prepare well and use the Measures of Success dashboard (chapter 13) to test an offer: does it serve the key interests well without time bombs? Is it favorable or at least better than the alternative? Is it fair, and are the relationships sound? Each “no” is a warning sign. 

Adam: What is the single best piece of advice you have ever received? 

Seth: Seek the missioner before the mission- the starting point for a wonderful essay by Richard Bolles called “How to Find Your Mission In Life: Thoughts on the Spirituality of the Job Search.” It was seminal for me and, among many other things, helped me find my right livelihood. The other: learn to dance. That’s how I met my wife. 

Adam: Is there anything else you would like to share?

Seth: My gratitude, Adam. 


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally-recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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