Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Former Secretary of Labor Tom Perez

I recently interviewed Tom Perez on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today was the Secretary of Labor and the chair of the DNC. Tom Perez was the Assistant Attorney General for Civil Rights before becoming the Secretary of Labor, and then the chair of the Democratic National Committee. Secretary Perez, thank you for joining us.

Tom: It's great to be with you. Please call me Tom, it's a lot quicker.

Adam: All right, Tom. I'll take you up on that. You are the rare former federal prosecutor who is also a member of the mafia. That's bill's mafia. I have to clarify that you grew up in Buffalo before working your way through Brown, you took on a couple of different jobs, one as a trash collector, and another as a warehouse worker. And then you made your way to law school. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What experiences and lessons were most instrumental to shaping your worldview and to shaping the trajectory of success?

Tom: Well, thank you for that question. I was born in Buffalo and my parents came to this country from the Dominican Republic. They were kicked out, quite frankly. There was a brutal dictator in the ‘30s and my family spoke out and were kicked out. And America gave them opportunities. And my dad served as a legal immigrant in the U.S. Army. And he proudly served and he couldn't wait to get his U.S. citizenship. And when he got out of the Army, we settled in Buffalo, New York, I'm the youngest of five, and they moved to Buffalo, as you can imagine, because of the similarities in the weather between Buffalo and Dr. Knot. I was 12 years old, unfortunately, when my dad died. And my mom actually got pretty sick that same year, and it was not a good year for our family in 1974. And Buffalo was and is the city of good neighbors for good reason. My surrogate father was a teamster, he had probably a 10th-grade education, but he was possibly the wisest person I ever met. And he taught me the importance of the union movement, he taught me the importance of taking care of your neighbors, and the golden rule. And with the benefit of all the jobs that you mentioned, I was usually working two, or three jobs because I was a Pell Grant kid, we had to work hard, and my parents taught us to work hard. And that really taught me a lot of lessons that have carried me through life, which is, you treat everyone with respect. I often think that there's an inverse correlation, frankly, between the number of years of formal education and your wisdom, because my surrogate father, as I mentioned, didn't have the benefit of going to the schools that I went to, but boy, he was a heck of a lot wiser than I was. And that's what I loved about Buffalo, it taught me hard work, taught me about looking after people in need. And those lessons have really stuck with me throughout my life. It taught me about the dignity of work, and respecting everyone in the work you do. Whether you have the privilege of sitting in the Oval Office with President Obama, or whether you're in the back of a trash truck, you know, every job has dignity. And we should always make sure that we respect that. And those are lessons that I carry with me throughout my life. And I'm really proud to have grown up in Buffalo and I'm proud to be Dominican-American and learn so many lessons from that upbringing.

Adam: And so many of the lessons that you shared are resonant no matter what you're doing, no matter what your journey is. And as I hear you share those lessons, I'm thinking about what it takes to be a great leader and right at the core is the love of people. Having a deep respect for what every single person is going through, is putting in every person's journey, no matter who they are, no matter where they are, is deeply important. Great leaders understand that great leaders fundamentally love people, doesn't matter what school they went to, as you articulated so beautifully. The school of hard knocks can be better than even the best schools and you went to the best school so you can attest to that.

Tom: Well, there's a big difference between IQ and EQ and I met a lot of people who probably had Mensa-like IQ, but their EQ was not there. And as a result, they weren't someone you wanted to work with. They weren't someone that had necessarily the best judgment because they had blind spots galore. And I really think that your point is well taken. I mean, in every job I had, like when I was Labor Secretary, just to take one example, I always asked my team, please make sure that if someone who works for you, and we had about 17,000 employees at the Labor Department, but you know, if someone lost their spouse, they lost their husband, or they lost their son or daughter, or something big happened, let me know. And I tried my hardest to just shoot them an email or a text or something. Because I really believe that the most important thing in a workplace is the culture that you build. I wanted to build a culture of inclusion, a culture of respect, and I had what I would consider to be the good fortune atom of working four or five jobs in a row, including labor secretary where I went into agencies that had a critical mission but were fundamentally underperforming. And I was attracted to what I loved. It's like when you buy a house, and it's a little bit of a fixer-upper. I rather look at the house, as it could be rather than the house that currently exists. And I'm very proud of the fact that, for instance, when I got to the Labor Department, we were second from the bottom and worker satisfaction. And it's kind of a bad thing, no one wants to work at the Labor Department, not a good optic. Adam, when I left, we were in the top third or top quarter of the large agencies. And the reason I paid attention to that metric is that I learned a long time ago when I was an entry-level prosecutor at DOJ, that if you can inspire the folks on the front lines and make sure they feel like they're part of something bigger than themselves. You're going to get much more productivity out of folks and jobs are going to be a lot more fun when people feel like their voice is being heard. And so we spent a lot of time not only when I was at the Labor Department, but when I was in all of these jobs, making sure that we understood what our workforce needed, making sure we were investing in our human capital, and making sure that we built those partnerships. And, again, it's the golden rule. I had bosses when I started that really took care of me and then I had bosses that I would never want to emulate. And I always wanted to be the former and not the ladder.

Adam: Yeah. Going back to treating everyone with respect, and the power of listening, great leaders are great listeners. Can you dive a little bit deeper into this topic? You mentioned the importance of building a culture of inclusion, building a culture of respect, you have a great track record of turning around underperforming cultures. What can leaders do to build winning organizational cultures?

Tom: Well, the first thing I did was to make sure I built a team that reflected those values. My theory of life in the workplace is what I call the bus, you get the right people on the bus, and the bus can go anywhere. And I really spent a lot of time on that issue, making sure that I had folks on our teams who not only had the substantive knowledge but also scored A pluses in that all-important grades you got in preschool, plays well with others, folks who were collaborative. I always prided myself on having a workforce and a senior leadership team that reflected the diversity of our communities. I spent a lot of time working with police departments that had experienced horrific incidents. And we see so many of these in the United States, whether it's Memphis, Tennessee, whether it's Breanna Taylor a few years ago. And what I learned from working with the police department is it's all about culture. So many of the problems that I saw resulted in murders and other acts of violations of federal law and federal civil rights laws were a function of a culture of disrespect for folks where it was us against them. It's a war out there. And if it's a war, all's fair in love and war. And I always tried to make sure in my own workplaces that we did hire the right people, and made sure they understood that you got to listen to folks out there, not just our workforce, but our constituency groups, people that we deal with, day in and day out. And that for me, I still stay in contact with a lot of folks that I worked with five jobs ago, because we really, I think created a good environment. where we worked hard, but we also made it fun. When you spend 12 hours a day, in a workplace, you want to walk in and feel like you can not only get stuff done but really enjoy yourself. And I think our key to turning it around in these agencies was really building that culture. And yeah, the other thing, though, too, is we had to make some hard choices, because we had to make some personnel changes. And the lesson I learned a long time ago is if your goal is to expand your holiday card list, don't run to be DNC chair. Don't try to be the labor secretary. Because the reality is, your job is not to win a popularity contest. Your job is to carry out the mission of the office. And one of the many things that I did when I saw police misconduct, again, just to use that example, so many of the failures in police departments, I can trace to failures of frontline supervision of that sergeant. That commanding officer who either his goal was I want everyone to be my friend. And again, if you want a friend, get a dog, Harry Truman said. Yeah, others who just were ill-suited to be supervisors. This created major problems. And so I really worked hard with our first-line supervisors to make sure that they could lead and that they could inspire.

Adam: Know what you stand for, and stand for it. It is really important. And that last point that you shared is essential, great leaders develop great leaders. You're not going to be able to do it alone. How many people did you manage as Secretary of Labor, you're going to need help to lead this entire department. It's about developing other great leaders and empowering others around you.

Tom: I couldn't agree more with that. And I'm a big believer in what I call the irrelevance theory of leadership. I want to become as irrelevant as possible as soon as possible. And the way you do that is by working to empower your teams so that they can lead and they can do the job. And by the end of the day, you're still playing an important role. But you're watching everybody else. And I remember vividly, I was the Maryland labor secretary from 2007 to 2009. And that was a turnaround job. The Labor Department in Maryland was a third-tier agency when I got there. And that was really unfortunate because it had a critical mission. And I was really proud of what we were able to do. And when I got nominated to lead the Civil Rights Division under President Obama, my confirmation was delayed a bit because of politics. And I was, by the end of my tenure at the Labor Department of Maryland, because we had built a really good leadership team, really, the last few weeks felt blissfully irrelevant, because it was really inspiring to watch everybody doing their job and doing it incredibly well. And that's what it's all about. And I see so many folks who lead organizations who have a little bit of a hoarding disorder. And by that, I mean, they don't want to share power, they don't want to share authority. I've worked with some friends who have been in nonprofits, including nonprofits that they found it and there's this phenomenon sometimes of founder-itis, where it's your baby, and it's hard to give up and let go. And I've been working with one person in particular, who shall go unnamed, who is a remarkable leader, but working with that person, that will step back because there are so many people in that organization that can thrive, and I think will thrive but only when that person steps back a bit. And for me, what made me learn how to step back and not micromanage was having children. You micromanage to your detriment. And by the way, it consumes a hell of a lot of unnecessary time. And when you consume unnecessary time, and then you have three kids, like my wife, and I have, you know, spending time with them. And so it's a quintessential win-win. When you step back, you empower your people, you're there for them, and you have their back, but you're not in their grill all the time. And I really appreciated that about leaders who gave me the latitude sometimes to make mistakes, but to try not to make the same mistake twice.

Adam: I wish my parents had listened to this conversation 30 years ago. It would have been very helpful.

Tom: Amen. 

Adam: You've obviously learned so many great lessons from all the leaders you've been around. And you've been around many of the most prominent political leaders of our generation. Who do you consider to be the best leaders that you've been around and what did you learn from them?

Tom: I learned different lessons from different leaders. I worked for Senator Kennedy. And he was the best listener that I have ever worked with, you could sit in a room with him, briefing him on the next day's hearing. And it would seem like he wasn't absorbing what you were saying, he wasn't necessarily looking you in the eye. And then you get to the hearing the next day. And he has a better understanding and articulation of the issue than you do. And you've been briefing it for weeks. And he just had that remarkable skill. And he had a remarkable amount of empathy. So again, I told you about sweating the details. If we had a hearing, and we call the witness, and that witness traveled in from California to testify, I was never going to set foot in Senator Kennedy's office after that hearing, unless I had the thank you note to that witness, that he could then write a handwritten, thank you at the bottom of that note, that sort of attention to detail is something I really respect. Donna Shalala was my boss when I was working at the Department of Health and Human Services. And that's a behemoth of an agency. And her capacity again, to build a great team to empower people. She hired me and when I talked to her, she said, “I want you to run this agency. The Office for Civil Rights is a critical agency. And it was broken when we got here. And it's still broken, I'm embarrassed by that. But we still have time to fix it. And I want you to fix it. And I will support you in anything you have to do”. And we had to make some tough changes because we had to make some personnel moves. And she always had my back and her capacity to empower people and support people. She's a mentor, really to this day. And I remember vividly sitting in the Oval Office when President Obama was meeting with labor leaders talking about the Affordable Care Act. And we were talking in particular about some issues that there was tension between the labor movement and the administration. And usually, in a situation like that, you'll have your staffer being the principal person doing the talking because you started getting down into the weeds. President Obama had the capacity to obviously articulate a vision of hope, the CSIP way, but I'll tell you sitting in that room, I remember scribbling a note to one of my colleagues there as I sitting next to him, saying it was really helpful to have the smartest guy in the room here because he was able to take these issues on with remarkably in-depth knowledge. And from there, he probably went to a classified briefing on Afghanistan. And from there, he went to something else. And his capacity to absorb and then articulate all of it was just truly remarkable. But what all three of those folks had in common is they had a remarkable empathy. And that's the same thing with Joe Biden, whom I worked very closely with, especially when he was vice president and his capacity to understand and step in people's shoes. There's not a phony bone in his body. And I firmly believe that people have underestimated him for, frankly, for decades, and when you have a front-row seat with him, and you see his capacity to really grieve with people, identify with people, not just empathize but sympathize with people. It's a real gift. And it's not a contrived gift. He wasn't born on third base. And he's not going to let anyone believe that he hit a triple. He's a hard worker. And he's someone who understands the plight of everyday folks and has never forgotten his roots. And so I learned all these things from various leaders, and then some, and I really do feel like I've led a charmed life because of all these folks that I've had the privilege of working with.

Adam: Tom, in my interviews with hundreds of America's top leaders, a word that has come up over and over and over again, is empathy. And there are lots of synonyms for empathy, one of which we spoke about earlier, which is care. Great leaders care, great leaders love people, and great leaders don't fake it. You can't fake caring and you can't fake loving people.

Adam: You mentioned that you've been around lots of great leaders who have had great EQ, and lots of bad leaders who had great IQ but poor EQ. Can you develop EQ? Is that something that anyone listening to this conversation can gain can improve? And if so, how?

Tom: That's a great question. I think we're all a product of our life experiences. And I feel in my own situation, I've been able to develop EQ, through those life experiences. I was 12 years old when my dad dropped dead in the basement of our house from a heart attack. And a month later, my mom was in the hospital and they said she was going to be fine. But they told me my father was going to be fine when he had his first heart attack three months before he died. Those experiences absolutely affect you. And I remember sitting in our church, I was raised Catholic, and I remember sitting in our church, and my dad died in 74. And we had a family that our church adopted from Vietnam, a mother with her five children, and she lost her husband in the war. And our church had taken them in. And I remember looking at that family of five without a dad, and thinking, why they've had a heck of a lot harder than I have. And I just think about those experiences. And I always encourage people. We have one kid who's living abroad, right now, they’re the oldest and lived abroad for a couple of years. Our youngest, who's in college, is similarly a very intellectually curious person. And I think the way you develop EQ is to have diverse life experiences, get out of your comfort zone, and understand how other people live. And when I think about the people, and certainly without naming names, who are a little bit bereft of that EQ, I just think a lot of them, their life experiences have been so narrow, they just lacked the capacity to step in the shoes of someone else. And understand that, no, they're not a lazy person, that's not their source of challenge. And I always encourage my kids to get out there and get out of their comfort zone and really develop that capacity to step in the shoes of others. And for me, that's really helped me not just as a leader, but as a person, as a father, and as a colleague. And that is, for me, I think the best way that we can address that issue.

Adam: I think that's really, really important advice. Just getting out there, getting on the ground, diversifying your experiences, getting out of your comfort zone. It really comes down to understanding things from other people's perspectives. We don't all see the world the same way. We don't all have the same life experiences, which brings me back to a conversation I had with general Larry Spencer, one of the great military leaders of our day, who was the second highest-ranking military officer in the Air Force. And when we were talking about the importance of diversity and inclusion, one of the things he shared is whether you like diversity and inclusion, which you should, it's here. And as a leader, you have to accept it. We don't all see things the same way at the end of the day. We all have different life experiences. And the more that you can gain the perspective of those around you, the more that you can, to some degree emulate the experiences of those around you, the more successful you'll be as a leader.

Tom: Well, I was listening intently to what you were saying. And a couple of people came to mind. I have a friend whose uncle was the commandant of the U.S. Marine Corps. What was his major in college? He was a classics major, not what you would think of from the Commandant of the Marine Corps. One of the people I got to know well at the Labor Department was a guy named Jim urine, who is now the retired CEO at MGM, and MGM had a wonderful relationship with their workforce. They provided ladders of opportunity for these union members and I remember walking the strip in Vegas with Jim and talking to people who are mid-level managers who started out cleaning rooms. There was a real career ladder. Jim was a classics major. And, again, I think it's really important. My youngest son like you is, you were at USC, and he is at USC, you were at the Marshall School, and he is at the Marshall School. And I have given him some opportunities to have conversations with people who are in the finance world, and what they continue to tell them. And there's one friend I have who has been exceedingly successful in his career. And he said to him, I don't want you to take any more accounting courses, I want you to take courses, in liberal arts, in the classics. That's how you are going to be the most successful because it's going to broaden your horizons. And I think that is so critically important. And my children went to the largest high school in Maryland, it was also the most diverse High School in Maryland. They don't tolerate diversity. They demand it, they embrace it, and it has enriched their lives. And that is who we are as a nation. And I think it's a source of great strength. Our diversity is not something to fear, it's something to embrace, whether it's in corporate America, whether it's in rural America, or wherever it is, that is what will always make America great. And it's unfortunate to see folks who are trying to pit one group against the other. That's not who we are never have been, and hopefully never will be.

Adam: Tom, I love it. I could not agree with you more. You mentioned the Commandant of the Marine Corps. Guests of this podcast might be familiar with a different Commandant of the Marine Corps, Bob Nellore, who was a guest on this podcast. General Nellore spoke extensively about the importance of diversity and inclusion as it pertains to leadership in the armed services. He also spoke a lot off the air about his love of the Detroit sports team, so we won't get into that topic.

Tom: And I didn't go into Buffalo Bills. But once the fan always a fan.

Adam: As Secretary of Labor, and as chair of the DNC, you obviously had to be highly adept at building relationships with people who might not necessarily see eye to eye with one another. They might have very deep convictions that run contrary to yours. What are the keys to working successfully with people who see things so differently than the way that you do? And more probably, what are the keys to building winning relationships?

Tom: Not personalizing issues. We may disagree. But when you see the personal attacks, I not only disagree, but you're morally bankrupt. That's not a formula for any long-term success. I'm a big believer in the notion that you can disagree without being disagreeable. I think it's really important to look for Venn diagrams. There's always overlap if you search hard enough. And I go back to one of your earlier questions you asked me about leaders I admired and I mentioned Senator Kennedy and I talked about his listening capacity. But there was another capacity he had, and that was to work across the aisle to understand that we are proud Americans before we are proud, Democrats are proud Republicans are proud of independence. And when you do that, that's how you succeed. I was not the Secretary of Labor for democratic states. I was the Secretary of Labor period. And I remember a number of situations working with, for instance, Senator Susan Collins of Maine. And we worked on a number of issues together. And to this day, I consider her a friend. When I won my DNC race, one of the first texts I got was from Senator Collins, and we stay in touch. And I helped her and her constituents when I was labor secretary, and I did that with pride. And again, that was a lesson I learned from Senator Kennedy. And we have to continue to understand that if you're going to build these relationships, you've got to spend time understanding what makes people tick. And when you have the will to do that. And you don't personalize things. The capacity to find that common ground becomes greater.

Adam: You recently ran for Governor of Maryland, and you lost the primary in a very close race. It probably didn't help that you're a Bulls fan and also a Red Sox fan. I don't know if that was the difference in the margin. How did you get over losing? And how can anyone listening get over the difficult moments, the failures, and the setbacks that they face in their life?

Tom: Well, I think the biggest failure in life is the failure to swing the bat. And I did run for governor and it was the closest race since 1966. And we gave it our all and didn't quite make it to the mountaintop, and I have zero regrets. Life is always a journey. It's not the destination. And the thing that I have the fondest memories from, with every chapter of my life, are the people that you meet on that journey. So many people who stepped up in the race and went to bat for me, some whom I've known for decades, and have always been there, and some who I'd never met before, and stepped up in remarkably humbling ways. And so what I would say to folks about that is, I just think that you should never hesitate to take risks. I've run for office multiple times, and we've had some success. And sometimes we didn't quite make it to the mountaintop, but you don't hear me use the word failure. Because I think that experiences that don't work out, as you hope, are often the experiences you learn the most from. And so I urge anyone who might be listening to this, to never be reluctant to take educated risks. Don't jump off a 10-story apartment building without a parachute. That's that risk. That's stupidity. But I'm proud of the campaign we ran and I looked at every chapter of my life. And I grew a lot. I learned a lot. And I tried to lead by example. And you know what, I'm working hard to make sure that our current governor Westmore, a friend succeeds because it ain't about Tom Perez. It's about the people we're trying to help. And the week after our primary entity, even though it was the closest primary since 1966, we did a unity event. That's how you do it, you come together, you have spirited primaries, you give it your all, and then you come together around the shared value. So it really isn't about Tom, I hope people get out there and either run for office or go seek out that job. That might be a stretch assignment for you. Go get that degree that you always wanted to get, but you had family responsibilities that inhibited you from being able to do that. You want to love what you do every day. And I feel pretty blessed that every chapter of my life has been a remarkably enriching chapter. And I hope to continue that.

Adam: There's so much great stuff there. Something that you and I have spoken about, from your journey and from my journey, there is no linear path to success. There are ups their downs, and something that I've learned, not only from my journey, something that you've learned not only from your journey but that we've both learned from being around so many of America's best leaders. Everyone fails, and failure. You don't like the word, whether you use the word or don't use the word is the gateway to success. If you're not failing, you're not trying. You use this great line, a great phrase, I love this phrase. Don't be reluctant to take an educated risk. Don't take risks just for the sake of taking risks. But if it's a risk that you believe is worth taking, if, in your heart of hearts, you feel like this is the right thing to do, don't be afraid to do it. And finally, the importance of moving on. I had Governor Bill Weld on the podcast and I asked him about the first race that he ran, which was the race for Attorney General of Massachusetts. And he lost by the widest margin in Massachusetts history. The record still stands today. And as he shared with listeners, that was one of the best moments of his career. Just having a positive attitude, having a positive mindset, understanding that if something bad happens to you, if you make a mistake, if you fall short if you fell, it's how you get back up. It's how you react. That's what defines you.

Tom: Well, I couldn't agree more. And I would point out simply that J.K. Rowling, who authored all the Harry Potter books, there were something like six or seven editors that read the manuscript and turned her down. They all deny it. Now I'm sure Barack Obama got his butt kicked in a congressional race. George Herbert Walker, Bush got his butt kicked. Ronald Reagan ran for president. I don't know how many times Joe Biden, I don't know how many times. First, if you don't succeed, try try again. And they would all tell you that those chapters of their lives built some scar tissue. And it's certainly imparted a lot of wisdom. And for me, it's the same way I've learned something from every chapter of my life. And I've enjoyed every chapter of my life and I always challenge my students, whom I've worked with, to make sure they make it a goal of theirs. Unlike every job, they've ever had, because truly happiest is the person whose job is their hobby because then you never have to work a day in your life. And I feel very, very blessed. And I want to win the governor's race. Of course, I did. I didn't go in it to come in second. But yeah, it didn't happen, we gave it our best, we swung the bat, no regrets, and you move on, and you come together. And that's the example I've tried to set. And then new chapters will emerge. My mother was a very spiritual person, God rested her soul and always said that everything happens for a reason. And there's a plan for everyone. And I look at what happened after those races when I didn't turn out like I wanted to, and you know what I lived to tell about it, and add new opportunities that emerged. So don't hesitate to take educated risks.

Adam: Tom what can anyone listening to this conversation do to become more successful personally and professionally?

Tom: I think what they can do is, number one, make sure you've got those life experiences that I mentioned, and the growth and the wisdom that comes from it. Number two, don't hesitate to call people and ask for their advice. I've always had great mentors. And I wouldn't be where I am without my surrogate father. Many of my mentors are people that are not recognizable household names. And I had the ability, and I had the luck to work with Barack Obama and Ted Kennedy, and all of those remarkable people. But I had other mentors who are not household names, and who were just as impactful in my life. And so getting those people around you. And learning from them is critically important. And I always say to folks, a number of people come to me from time to time, and asked me, oh, I want to run for office, what do I do? And I always tell him to do your job well, because good governance is great politics. If you're currently a lawyer, make sure you are the best lawyer in town and you're working with folks and you're living your values every day. I was with about 150 union members recently, and I was talking to them about running for office because I was telling them about the state local federal office. So many issues are decided that impact your lives, and I want you at the table. Because if you're not at the table, your chances are you're going to be on the menu. I don't know when my tickets going to get punched, okay, but I don't want to have anything on my to-do list when that day comes. And that's why I feel like I've led a charmed life. And that's what I encourage everyone to do. Don't sit there and say, well, I'm going to do that in a few years because a few years are gonna pass and suddenly those opportunities might be in the rearview.

Adam: Tom, thank you for all the great advice, and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors. 

Tom: It's been an honor to be with you and a pleasure.


Adam Mendler is an entrepreneur, writer, speaker, educator, and nationally-recognized authority on leadership. Adam is the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal-winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities, and non-profit organizations. Adam has written extensively on leadership and related topics, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. Adam teaches graduate-level courses on leadership at UCLA and is an advisor to numerous companies and leaders. A Los Angeles native, Adam is a lifelong Angels fan and an avid backgammon player.

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