I recently went one-on-one with Tracy Cote. Tracy is the Chief People Officer of Slickdeals and was previously the Chief People Officer of StockX, Zenefits, and Genesys.
Adam: How can leaders prioritize the career development of their employees?
Tracy: I think that this is something that employees always want more of. Every time I do an employee opinion survey, career development always comes up as an area of focus for people. And I don’t think organizations generally do a great job at a corporate level of figuring out how to manage this. And I think the reason is, it’s really up to the manager to guide their individual employee. As HR leaders, there are certain things we can do to help put guardrails and guidelines and programs and processes, and education in place to support that work. But at the end of the day, the manager has to really take it on as a partner with their individual employees and work with them to help them craft individual development plans, to talk to them about their needs, their wants, what they’re trying to do. Learning is on-the-job learning, and there are things that you’re never going to learn in a class or on a podcast or in some kind of training session that the HR person is facilitating. You’re going to learn on the job. Interesting projects that challenge you and stretch you and help you learn and grow, and that really comes down to the managers taking ownership for that development.
Adam: How can leaders ensure that their employees are learning on the job?
Tracy: I think first and foremost, it’s important for leaders to observe and listen. And by listening, I mean two things. First, it’s talking to the employee about what they want and who they are, and what they think their needs are, and what they want to do in their career aspirations. It’s also observing. How do they move through the workplace? How do they interact with others on projects? How are they collaborating? How are they showing up? What are their development needs as a leader that you see through your own observations and through obtaining 360-degree feedback from others that they work with? To help someone grow and develop, it does take a little bit of time and thought to understand really what they need, because sometimes what people think they need isn’t what they need. Sometimes we’re not as self-aware as we’d like to be. And as a manager, and by default, to some degree, a mentor for the people working for you, it is part of your job to help cut through some of that and understand how you can best support them and help them so they can be the best, whatever it is they are, both for themselves and their development, but also for your business.
At the end of the day, people want to be seen. As in understood, heard, they want to know that you’re there for them, and that will drive engagement in and of itself. And by the fact that you’re listening and observing, but also helping, prompting, asking the right questions, pushing them, giving them opportunities, that’s where their career will develop. And the more managers do that, the less complaining you’re going to get on the employee opinion survey about there’s no career development around here.
Adam: What are the types of questions that leaders should be thinking about asking?
Tracy: Probably just a logical conversation around where do you see yourself in five years, two years, three years, whatever the time horizon is, what are your aspirations beyond this role? I think the main thing is to push a level deeper because most employees will be a little intimidated by this conversation, afraid to say the wrong thing. So really creating a sense of psychological safety with that employee first to make sure they know it’s OK not to say, I want your job or I want whatever the next obvious job is. They’re a salesperson. They might see themselves as a recruiter someday, or it might be a lateral thing. different department, different function. It might be owning a coffee shop. Whatever it is that they think they want to do, the manager has to make it okay to talk about, so they can help them while they’re there. And I’ve had this conversation with many people, both reporting to me and often not, around, you can learn skills here that will serve you in a completely different environment in the future, but it doesn’t mean I don’t want to help you develop those skills. And I think this is a new way of thinking about what does it mean to have a career? The old school way was, oh, you join a company and you move up through the ranks until you’re the president of something or other. But I think in the modern world, people are moving around a lot more, and we have to make it OK for people to express that and to explore that and to help them develop skills for whatever that is that they want to ultimately do.
Adam: What projects would you encourage leaders to think about giving to the employees who they want to help grow and develop?
Tracy: I think it varies a lot based on the company you’re in, the function you’re in, and what level the employee is at, and what they want to do. One example that I have is at a previous company, we had folks at a fairly, I would say, entry level in our warehousing world. And a lot of these folks were interested in starting their own businesses. And so I created essentially what was an engagement committee. And created a spot for a president, a treasurer, and different roles within the engagement committee. And we had people apply for these roles, and it was very formal. And as a result, what these folks got was experience in a structured environment. creating a budget, setting the budget, tracking their spend, managing the credit card, all of these financial things, things that would serve them in a business context when they wanted to turn their side hustle into their own business. In that case, it would have been selling sneakers and collectibles. So it’s something that relates to work. It’s helpful at work. It’s a project that needed to happen, and it’s giving certain people the opportunity to expand their skill sets in project and program management or budget management in a way that is related to work, can be fun, and also can serve them well beyond that. That’s a very unique example, but thinking along those lines of, hey, I need something here, how could this translate to what this person wants to do later?
I think knowing your people is critical here. For example, when you have someone go on a leave of absence or move on from the company, you have a gap until you can fill it. It’s a real great opportunity if you know your team to bring someone in, maybe an out-of-the-box solution for a rotational assignment for the few months it might take you to backfill that position, to give them an opportunity to try something different, to bring their skill set to a different role, and to learn the skill sets of that role. So that is another thing I’ve done a lot of. I have a tendency to move people around from different departments because I think it helps them be better at the function they’re in.
Adam: What should leaders understand about mentorship and sponsorship?
Tracy: I think a lot of people will tell you that, oh, your manager can’t be your mentor. And I disagree with that. I think you can find different kinds of mentors in many walks of life, from your social life, to your friend’s husband, to your pastor, to your cousin. Mentors can be found everywhere, not just in the workplace. But the most logical person to help mentor and support your growth is sitting right in front of you. It’s your manager. You should absolutely be talking to them. and seeking them out to mentor you. Don’t just come to them with the tactical questions and problems. Come to them with some of the bigger career development conversations. That’s where HR tries to get in the middle of this and push those conversations to happen because sometimes, they don’t happen naturally. But as an individual who wants to learn and grow, you should for sure be initiating those conversations. As leaders, you should be comfortable having them. initiating them and certainly responding when somebody comes to you with these questions or when HR says, hey, it’s time to talk to your people about their careers. You should absolutely take the time to take that seriously and do it. As far as sponsorship, I think of that more like being an advocate. Most of us wouldn’t be wherever we are today without someone having advocated for us in some way or helping us. Whether they realized they were doing it or not, it may not have been conscious, but really finding those people who are likely to be your allies and as a leader to be an ally, to notice when someone might need a helping hand or a leg up or a word of support or encouragement, that is our job as leaders.
Adam: Building on the topic of sponsorship, something that you can do as a sponsor: let people into meetings that they might not otherwise be let into.
Tracy: Absolutely. I’m a huge fan of, in a quarterly business review, most businesses do something like this. Certainly, the tech companies that I’ve been a part of. I think there are some companies where the leader of the function feels like they have to present everything themselves. I’m a huge fan of letting other people jump in and present their part, and it makes it a bigger meeting. It makes it a little messier. Sometimes the level of presentation isn’t as polished as what you might expect, but this is how people learn and grow. They get exposure. They get experience. My teams do this and speak to their slides and their part. I don’t need to do the voiceover for them. I didn’t do that work. They did. And I want them to take credit for it and feel what it’s like to stand in front of the CEO and a bunch of executives and talk about what they did and how they did it and answer those questions. And I always encourage this everywhere I go to make that a broader meeting, to give everybody that opportunity every four months or so.
People may get a little nervous with that kind of exposure, but it absolutely helps them learn and grow, and they always appreciate it in the end. And as a leader, you have to have the confidence that you don’t need to take credit for everything every single person on your team is doing. Hopefully, your boss recognizes that you’re orchestrating all of that wonderful high performance that’s going on, and that you’re not the one actually doing all the work. And if you feel like you have to pretend like you are, then you need to reflect on that and try to figure out where that’s coming from.
Adam: Another important thing that leaders can do is provide their people with the opportunity to attend conferences, and if possible, set things up so that they actually have a role to play at the conferences they attend. Do you have any examples in your time as a leader where you’ve seen this in action?
Tracy: It’s funny, I never used to be a fan of conferences. And in the last few years, I’ve really understood much better the value that they bring to help you not only network and meet new people, and expand your mind that way. You meet vendors often in conferences and you learn about new technologies, new developments in your field. You listen to thought leaders speak. So if you’re really thinking about advancing your career, it’s imperative that you open your mind to different kinds of learning, and conferences are a great, very nicely orchestrated way to do that because they tend to be very industry or topic-specific. I think one way that’s an easier way to get involved in a conference would be if your company has some sort of booth or a reason to be there. Right. You can at least go, and you can at least pitch your company. on a smaller basis. Speaking engagements can be a little bit harder to get involved in that way, but certainly, there are many conferences where you can submit interest to be on a panel or a smaller group chat or to be a keynote speaker. I’ve been at previous companies where it tended to be executives to do that. And I’ve been at companies where it wasn’t always the executive and we would encourage engineering leads, for example, like a female engineering lead to go speak at a female tech-oriented conference and to stretch herself, to get in front of people, talk about the work she’s doing and to just advertise that and then bring back to the company what she did, how she did it. And then we get to get the benefit of that presentation and that learning as well.
Adam: Do you have any other tips for leaders on how they can prioritize the career development of their employees?
Tracy: I would say don’t wait for HR to tell you as a leader when you need to talk to your employees about their career development, this is part of your role as a manager. And if you are a leader, that ostensibly means people are following you. And if you want people to actually follow you, you have to take an interest in who they are and their career development and their performance, not just for your own ends, but for theirs as well.
Adam: In your experience, why are civility and respect in the workplace so important?
Tracy: I think if you want people to bring their best self to work and do the best work that they can do, they have to be comfortable and they have to feel secure and safe so they can focus on the work at hand rather than trying to manage landmines of difficult behaviors.
Adam: How can anyone demonstrate civility and respect in the workplace?
Tracy: I don’t think it’s that hard to be civil and respectful. But I think under times of pressure or with a lack of self-awareness or a lack of understanding about how power dynamics really work, people can be careless. And either purposefully or inadvertently create an environment that is not particularly civil or respectful. And as leaders, sometimes poor behavior is tolerated because someone has a specific, awesome skill set that we think is very important for our business. But the dark side of that it’s the stereotype of the brilliant jerk, but it’s a stereotype for a reason. And if you have people on your team who are not civil and respectful and treating others in a way that is professional and kind, you will have hidden costs to your business in terms of taking a hit to productivity, higher turnover, and a general dissatisfaction or malaise that will infect your entire workforce if you’re not careful.
I think we focus so much on the skills that people bring to the table, and we don’t focus enough on the behaviors they exhibit and how that impacts the workforce. It’s harder, too, to see sometimes. And I think a lot of leaders, CEOs, other kinds of executives sometimes willfully miss seeing these things because they’re worried it’s going to negatively impact their business. that highly skilled person is spoken to or coached or moved out of the organization if it can’t be adjusted. But what you find very often is that, in fact, what happens is that productivity increases because people then can breathe a sigh of relief. They can move on and they can focus on doing the great work that they were not really getting done because they were so nervous or uncomfortable before.
Adam: What are some of the problematic behaviors that people exhibit in the workplace that should be avoided?
Tracy: Some of the behaviors that people exhibit that make others feel less than or threatened include things such as being condescended to, talked down to, cut off. They are not allowed to speak. Their opinion is not seen as valued. They may be not invited to certain meetings. There’s an in-group and an out-group. They are just spoken to in a more abrasive or harsh, or direct way. And some people will attribute this to their personal style. Well, that’s just how I am. But at some point, that’s no longer an excuse. And you have to look to yourself, or maybe as the HR or the CEO, or the manager of this person, you have to talk to the person and try to bring some self-awareness about the impact that they’re having on their people. I will say, I think that a large part of a lack of civility comes from, and I’ll go back to something we talked about earlier, just not really seeing people, not understanding who they are or what they’re up against or what they’re doing, And maybe getting frustrated with them or just not speaking them into the way that they need to be spoken to about something because you’re just not understanding what they need or who they are at this moment in time. And I think getting leaders to slow down, and as a leader, sometimes we have to slow down and take a minute and ask the right questions. Because what I see a lot is leaders can offend and intimidate their people without meaning to, because they’re trying to move fast, they’re trying to be directive, they’re trying to just get things done, and they’re missing the social cues, they’re missing the things that are happening beneath the surface, and then the person feels like, it must be they don’t like me, or they don’t like me because of this, or because of that, and that creates all kinds of toxicity and problems, and it’s so easily avoided with a little patience and conversation, And that’s part also, part and parcel of helping people grow and develop as well.
Adam: What can leaders do to truly foster a culture of civility and respect in the workplace?
Tracy: Number one, they need to lead by example. Tone at the top matters. It drives cultures, drives cultures in countries, is everything. And we see it played out in real time every day. And there’s a lesson to be learned here from businesses that the tone you set as either the chief executive officer, the founder, or the leader of a function, a department, whatever it is, that person who’s sitting at the top of whatever pyramid they are over is setting the tone for that entire organization. It’s not okay for me to be harsh and overly direct, and abrasive if I don’t want to expect to see that kind of behavior from every single person under me, that will play out with everyone they interact with. So I think the number one thing is leaders have to be super, super, super aware of how they come across and what behaviors they’re basically asking people to exhibit by example.
Most people have a really hard time giving constructive feedback for some reason. It’s very difficult for most people. Whether it’s up, down, or across, people just have a tough time with it. And this is why there are so many misunderstandings in workplaces, because this is just a really, really tough thing for people to do. Absolutely the right thing to do is to find a way to express your concern with the behavior and how it makes you feel by pulling the person aside and having a meaningful one-on-one respectful, non-accusatory, pleasant conversation to say, hey, I just want to let you know I’m sure you didn’t mean to cut me off in that meeting or I’m sure you didn’t mean to not allow there to be room for me to come into that meeting or whatever it is. But this is how it made me feel. It made me feel like you didn’t value my participation or my opinion. And in the future, you know, I would just love to find a way to make sure that I’m showing up in the right way here so we can work better together or whatever. Something along those lines, because I feel like there are nice ways to express that. And if you pull the person aside, you don’t call them out in public, you don’t escalate to their manager make and hopefully that will help them be better leaders and co-workers for other people as well as you help them have a little more self-awareness.
Passive-aggressive behavior can get you results, but it’s generally not something that makes other people feel good, and in the long run not going to get you what you want. And I think just being the adult in the room sometimes to have that conversation will develop relationships rather than hurt them.
Adam: How can anyone get to a place where they can feel comfortable having these difficult conversations?
Tracy: This is where it’s really important for companies, leaders, managers to find ways to foster an environment where people do know each other somewhat on a personal level. Because when you have personal trust, you’re better able to develop professional trust because your lines of communication are more open. You know, you have some things in common with this person. You kind of know who they are as a human being. So that way, when you give advice, it’s coming from a place of caring. It’s not just coming from a place of accusing. This is where Kim Scott and the radical candor really took off, because I think this really resonated with people. Where you want to challenge people, but it has to come from a good place. And so I think this resonated with people, and a lot of people read her book, and people still talk about that model because it’s very simple and it’s true. And so, as the manager, you have to help create that environment. But as an individual contributor. You can do that on your own to some degree by taking the time to develop a relationship with the people you work with, by being friendly with them, by chatting with them, by asking them how their weekend was. You start to develop a rapport, and that makes it so much easier to give feedback when it’s not coming out of the blue. It’s coming at the right time, in the right place, at the right moment, but now the person receiving it knows it’s not just, oh, this person doesn’t like me, yelling at me about something, it’s, oh, I know this person is friendly and they talked to me and they’ve been helpful to me and now they have feedback for me, so maybe I’ll listen to that. It just makes people much more receptive. It’s all about relationships.
Adam: Do you have any other best practices or things to avoid when it comes to building a culture of civility and respect in the workplace?
Tracy: I think when we’re talking about civility and respect, the one maybe obvious thing we didn’t talk about is just making sure everyone’s voice is heard. It’s all too easy for people in a meeting or in a room or on a team where the loudest person gets all the airtime. And what happens is there are people who don’t know how to get a word in edgewise. And as a leader, it’s your job, or as an ally or caring coworker, it’s also your unspoken job to find ways to make sure that every voice is heard. And I had a sales leader in a previous company who was really good about this. And there were times where I had something to say, but I’m always the only woman in the room, often on executive teams, very hard to get a word in edgewise. And he would always notice when I had something to say, because I have a terrible poker face. And he would say, hey, I think Tracy has something to say, or Tracy, did you want to add anything to that? And I always had something to say. And I appreciated that. And over time, again, by his example, I started just being able to be better about speaking up. And I learned to do that for others. And I think as leaders, the one thing we can do, or as allies, the thing we can do to help create a more civil and respectful workplace, is making sure all voices are part of the conversation.
