Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Grammy Award Winning Producer Tricky Stewart

I recently interviewed Tricky Stewart on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today is a five time Grammy Award winning producer and the guiding force behind more than 50 million records sold. Tricky Stewart has worked with the biggest names in music: Britney Spears, Mary J. Blige, Rihanna, Beyonce, Mariah Carey, Justin Bieber, Ciara and Katy Perry, just to name a few, and is the founder of the record label and studio RedZone Entertainment. Tricky, thank you for joining us.

Tricky: Hey, how are you?

Adam: I'm great. It’s great having you on. Thank you.

Tricky: Thank you for having me, sir.

Adam: Thanks for being here. You grew up in Markham, Illinois, a suburb of Chicago. And you grew up in a family where music was front and center. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What inspired your passion for music and what drove you to pursue a career in the music business?

Tricky: I think music was just something that was in my family's- literally in our DNA, for as long as I can remember. You know, friends being intimidated to sing Happy Birthday at the party, just because when the family would sing. It was basically a church choir almost, you know, five or six part harmonies going without any rehearsal. And it is just kind of that everybody knows how to fall in line, and do what they're supposed to do. And it's kind of been a big joke, like around my friend circle, like my whole life. And it's really just one of those things that everywhere that I looked honestly, music was just deeply entrenched, all the way through from my grandparents to every uncle, every aunt, my mother, my brother's cousin, everywhere. So, you know, from Jason Weaver, the actor, being my cousin to Corral being my cousin. And you know, he has more Grammys than I have. My brother Laney, being like the GOAT, one of the greatest producers that I've ever heard of, is my brother Mark, being our manager, and kind of like our business consultant, and builder of our businesses throughout the years. And then his wife, Judy, they actually joined forces back, you know, when we were first first starting 30 years ago, and she's been rocking with me ever since my career started. So this is literally like, even if you come into the family, somehow, you'll end up doing music too.

Adam: It sounds like a birthright. You had so many mentors along the way who were instrumental to your development and your success. You mentioned a few of them. You mentioned your older brother Laney, but there were so many others. And I wanted to know if you could talk about some of those relationships, what you learn from them and what tips you have on the topic of mentorship.

Tricky: I think some of my strongest mentors, like I said, are Laney Stewart, my big brother and Mark Stewart as well. Also, Gerald Busby and Little Silas Jr. are a few of my mentors and people who really touched me at pivotal points in my career. And I think the biggest part of mentoring for me is to take the time. And when you have accomplished something, or people are near a person that people look to for information to understand that regardless of who the person is, or what their talent level is, or if you feel like they can do something for you at the time, or if you see something in them or not. As you are new, you have to use your spark to maybe light a fire in someone that you may not even benefit from the conversation. And what I have found is that there's been a lot of embers, you know, that I've had the fortune of lighting because I took the time and enjoyed a moment with someone.

Adam: What advice do you have on how to find a mentor and how to really optimize a relationship with whatever mentor you've been able to find?

Tricky: So from the standpoint of the mentor who I think is the greatest mentor to me, my relationship with L.A. Reid is probably the one that shaped me the most, right? And that relationship is just something that I nurture a lot. I make sure that regardless of what's going on with me, I make sure that I always understand what's going on with him. And that he understands exactly what's going on with me as well to just have a communication, that the mentorship ultimately turned into friendships when there's, you know, the type of success that we had. But the art of opportunity, to give opportunity where there's not necessarily anything reciprocal, in that opportunity- But to really just be a vessel of a springboard for people to find their voice, to find their passions and find their purpose, I think, is really, really important. And that's something I learned from him- that there can be seasons, where those things do connect, but at the same time, once you light that fire, that fire is lit forever.

Adam: I love that. And you've mentioned so many big names on the business side of the music industry. You've worked with so many big hitters on the business side, and even bigger hitters on the talent side. In your experience, what are the key factors to succeeding in the music business and to succeeding in business in general.

Tricky: One thing to succeed in the music business in what my seat was, as, first and foremost, a writer and producer, was to understand that this business is made up of hit songs. It's not necessarily in the artist's business. It's not necessarily in the music business. It's not necessarily in the art business, per se, sometimes those things can line up. Once you decide to be in the music business, you have to be committed to writing hit songs, singing hit songs, and moving the masses, because that's what the industry is based upon. It's not necessarily based on the craft of music, it's not necessarily based on talent, it’s only based on the ability to create an audience where people need to advertise with you, they need to ultimately, you have an input. You know, we use the word influencers now, but these artists were the biggest polluters in the world. And I think that was very key for me to understand about being in music, because that is something that discourages people who come into music, trying to do music for music's sake, and it can take the joy out of it, if you don't understand what you're really signing up for. Then I think on the business side of what it takes, I think it's all about communication. I think there's many different parts to our business. But at the end of the day, to be a good communicator, or a great communicator, in the middle of the opportunities, I think gives you a leg up when you deal with things in a very straightforward fashion and in a way with a lot of integrity. And you don't do awkward situations because in our industry, there are going to be a lot of tough situations that will come your way. And you have to be able to deliver bad messages. Sometimes they're really big people. And there's an art to doing that.

Adam: I think that's such important advice not only to listeners who are interested in succeeding in the music industry, but to anyone interested in becoming a better leader. One of the most important characteristics of a great leader is communication. And to succeed, not only as a music producer, but to succeed as a leader in any business, you need to be a great communicator. And I wanted to know if you could dive a little bit deeper and share it with listeners, what advice you have on how to become a better communicator, and how to become a better communicator.

Tricky: I think the first part is listening. You know, in order to be a great communicator, I think one of the things that goes directly with that is listening to your team and creating an environment where people have the ability to speak their mind, regardless of what a person may do, and even if there is a person that does administration work, or you have someone that might be more on the technical side, always making people feel as if they work for a creative company and I view them as a creative, whatever it is that they do. And I really want the communication from my side to be, hey, unleash the beast, like, do your thing the way that you would do if you could do it, you know, unencumbered, and creating an environment where people really feel that they can thrive, and ultimately, ultimately have the ability to be creative in the areas that they're asked to and with things that they think will move the needle for.

Adam: Something that I've told listeners over and over and over again on this podcast is great leaders are great listeners and that’s such important information to take in. And to that end, I wanted to ask you, in your view, what do you believe are the key characteristics of a great leader, and what can anyone do to become a better leader?

Tricky: I think that some of the things that I really like to work on are making sure that people understand they have a seat at the table, making sure that the vision is clear. And making sure that people understand that we're not here to be like everyone else, because if we were everyone else, we would be doing something else, right? So we're here to figure out the thing that's not happening. We are a creative company. And for me, and being a music producer, we start with silence every day, as the backdrop to our existence. So from that standpoint, the creativity, like I said, of what's next, what's going to happen when we achieve what our goal is?

Adam: Can you talk more about your creative process? And how can leaders foster an environment and a culture that fuels innovation and creativity?

Tricky: I think that comes down to the environment. A lot of times creating the right environment in order to have people do their best work, understanding your personnel, and putting them in position to be successful. I'm a pretty big sports fan and I always say, you know, I'm really big on this- gathering the right people. And it's not about, oh, I have a position that's open and I need this- it's like, I found a person that I don't think we should live without. And then I bring them into the situation. And I want to know, quickly, I just want to get them integrated. I'll be attracted to them because of how they think, and what their views are and how they are in a casual setting. A lot of times I might have met people that I ultimately end up working with, because I want to hear what people think that don't do what I do. So ultimately, when I'm creating an environment of whether it's calling the right play, you know, I'm trying to call the right play, in a sense, it's like, okay, you got Katy Perry in the studio, right? Alright, what's the right play? Like, who's the songwriter? Who am I going to co-write with? Like, what is the sound that we're going for? What are we trying to achieve in the sessions, and in every single one of those things? I have to not only come up with the idea of putting that session together, but at the same time, why does this person and why would these combinations of things work creatively for these people who haven't met each other? And I'm the conduit in the middle of saying, no, I think that this girl Stacy Barthe mixed with this guy- I can't remember the guy's name. Like we got in the studio and wrote a record with Katy Perry called Hummingbird Heartbeat. And these are people that I had never worked with, it was just the idea that I think that can go with this. And we can make this beautiful song and it's to this day, it's one of my favorite creations that we've ever had.

Adam: I love it. Great leaders collect great people. And one of the most important things that you have to do as the head of a record label is identify and then develop talent. So you gave a couple of great examples and I wanted to know if you could share with listeners, what are your best tips on the topics of recruiting and talent development?

Tricky: Well, you know, it's a beautiful thing, this Instagram or IG as we call it, has changed the world in it gives me an idea. It gives me a way to monitor an artist without them knowing that I'm looking at that, right? It's kind of like a job interview, someone comes in, they're gonna say everything that needs to be said in order to get the thing. So you don't really know what you're dealing with until some months down the line. And IG, as far as development and really being able to check in on people and just follow what their work ethic is like, what it is that they're willing to put into their own career. What they are doing to be relevant today, on their own before you put fuel on their fire has been a tremendous advantage because you're able to, you're able to monitor things for a longer period of time to see what the success rate is and see what their work ethic is like. So that's been a real game-changer. And my new label RZ. Three, is stepping into that were our very first artists, MK xyz was someone that I found, just because I was looking for talent on the internet. And she's really, really a special talent and that opportunity, and those things would never happen any other way.

Adam: Even though the advice you shared is very focused on your specific business, your specific industry, I do think that it's universally applicable. Anyone interested in not only breaking into an industry, but advancing within an industry has to be very cognizant of their digital footprint. When you're a leader within an organization, and you're thinking about who you're going to bring in for whatever job is open, or, in your case, Tricky, I love how you spoke about when you meet someone, you're not even thinking about whether a job is open, you're thinking about how can I integrate this person into my organization? If not today, maybe tomorrow, maybe at some point down the road. And when you're building your digital presence, you need to be cognizant of that. So I think that there's so much there that's applicable, no matter what kind of career you're interested in pursuing.

Tricky: Absolutely. You picked it up exactly, exactly the way that I'm giving it to you from my perspective, but it's applicable to everything.

Adam: Something else that I want to hear from your perspective, which I also think is applicable to leaders across industries, has been your experience managing people who may have big egos and certainly have big names and are collecting big paychecks. Your job as a manager, as a leader is to bring out the best in the talent that you're leading. And you shared a few of your thoughts around how you approach that, but the people who you're working with are household names, entertainers, how does that impact how you ultimately manage the people around you? And what advice do you have for other leaders on how to manage people who might have big egos, might be collecting big paychecks, might not necessarily be the easiest people to manage?

Tricky: I think the biggest thing for me is to not have an ego for myself. So I have to check my ego at the door. Always. But one of the things is to be prepared. You're handling the ghost preparation of knowing what those things are, knowing what the buzz words are, and knowing what the environment needs to work and feel like and being responsible for it. And making it better and better every time and also creating a reputation for producing megastars. So part of that is the experience that I provide, that we provide. When you step into our environment from coming to get records from us is not just coming to get records, we're going to make sure that their favorite things are there. We're going to make sure that we've catered to them in as many ways as we can. And undoubtedly there’ll always be something that you might have forgotten or whatever but as it pertains to the ego itself. I think, too- communication, context, creating connectivity and respect that, yes, I know that you know I know who you are. But it's also important for you to know who I am. And through what we do here, that respect and through how I'm going to get you through this process is ultimately going to be what's going to change the world musically, because I'm going to have to tell you some things that you're not going to like. I'm going to be honest with you, when you're like, I have to tell you what you're not doing right. So 25 million people don't tell you, because it'll show that 25 million people feel completely different than us five to 10 people that might be in this room that I might have to say, hey, that's, that's not it, we're not in a good place. And we need to kind of check your ego, you know, like, we have to, and this isn't quite right. And it's not in this sense. It's like, the song is not going all the way or whatever the situation is. But yes, I've dealt with all the biggest eccentricities- I wouldn't necessarily say that their egos because a lot of times, two people think these people get different. But it's not that they get different. It's just you didn't pay attention to how they were, when they were, you know, when you didn't have to pay attention. But they've always had these isms.

Adam: Tricky, you shared so much wisdom there and I want to highlight a few of the points you made. Just to re-emphasize the point you made about listening. We spoke earlier in the conversation about the importance of listening when it comes to effective leadership. And you made it again, you need to listen at all times. But I also want to highlight a few of the other things you shared. Number one, not having an ego. That is so important, no matter what it says on your business card, it could say, CEO. In your case, you are a five-time Grammy Award winner, you've sold 50 million records, your resume is mind-boggling. But the first thing you said is I don't have an ego. And I think that's such an important lesson for listeners. Number two is the importance of providing effective feedback. You need to tell people around you what they need to hear, not what they want to hear. And number three is the importance of being flexible, being adaptive. You don't approach your environment, and you don't approach the people who are part of your environment with a one size fits all mindset. You approach each person who comes in firstly, with the humility that everyone is different, and you don't necessarily know what they want. So you're going to listen to what they want. And number two, being willing to adapt to their individual needs and to customize accordingly. So again, advice highly relevant to anyone interested in succeeding in the world of music, but equally as important to anyone interested in succeeding in any profession. Absolutely. What is the most surprising thing about the music industry?

Tricky: I would say the most surprising thing to me, because everyone here has a story of like, oh, the music industry, this isn’t the music industry that I think it's been. I've navigated a world of lifelong lasting friendships and relationships with people. Some of the finest people I've ever met, like, this is my tribe, you know, in this industry, I take a great deal of pride in it. And, you know, there's so many people that, you know, when you talk and you tell people to change in certain parts of the country, like, you know, that you do music, and they go, oh, tough business, everyone, like, everyone over here is a trucker like, you know, but I've really met some really genuinely nice, amazing people in this industry. And I would say, based upon our reputation as an industry, I would say that that is the most surprising.

Adam: That's good to hear. That's welcome news. What's your best advice for anyone interested in breaking into or advancing within the music industry?

Tricky: I would say it's, it's always about putting yourself in a position to be discovered. Music, although it can be viewed as a dream. It's not a dream. There's actually a roadmap to it just like, I mean, it's like if you want to be an Indy Car racer- you don't get on the freeway and just start driving fast. There's a way that you have to go about letting people know that this is a field that you will be into, I would imagine. And it's the same in music, it’s not a dream. But you have to put yourself in a position to be discovered. There's two major markets in the United States as far as being discovered. One is Los Angeles, and the other one is Atlanta. And I kind of toggle back and forth, for those reasons. And then as far as moving up within an organization, I always think it's important that your approach to everything, regardless of what it is that if you have an approach to whatever the task is in front of you of excellence, and they're doing everything to the best of your ability, with a smile. People will always notice people who go above and beyond and make going above and beyond, regardless of what you're doing, currently, at the time, have a really strong approach to what it is that you're doing so that someone can walk up to you and go, now, what is it that you do, because ultimately, you know, there's people in a situation that may be driving Uber on the side, they may be doing something else. But if you go into that Uber situation, and it's kind of like, oh my god, I'm just about to drive someone around, like, what happens when someone gets into your car that can change your life through a conversation, but you're not really, you know, people that are in tune with success, don't have any judgment of where they learn things from. And people think that, oh, this person's doing this, or they might be the chairman of this company. And they just walked around, like, you have to walk around them. Like they're excellent, really good people and really great leaders, I’ve found, have relationships with everyone that's in their life. And that includes the people that do things that people may go, that's not that important in the overall scheme of things- but when you do it for those people, and they will look at you a lot of times and figure out ways to work with you or to help you just because they like your approach to what it is that you're doing.

Adam: That is such great advice. It doesn't matter if you're meeting someone in an Uber, if you're meeting someone at a restaurant, at a bar, at a ballgame, at a networking event, however you're meeting people disregard the context, and focus on the relationship. Because one of the things that I think your story illustrates is how every relationship can lead to something bigger and better.

Tricky: Yeah, and sometimes you may only get one relationship, you may only get one opportunity, and you want to be a good service to your opportunities. You know, one of the things I think about in my career is that I've not had to be all things to all people in this music industry. And it's kept me in a nice grounded place. Because I had, I have one main client, you know, throughout my career, and was L.A. Reid, who was my mentor. And if you look at, you know, someone like Dr. Dre’s engineer, being Dr. Dre has never really made records for anyone other than me. And that one relationship has changed in life in many different ways. And that one relationship that I have with Mr. Reid has changed mine. So you know, you can think, oh, I burned that bridge or something like that. No, you can't. You can't burn those bridges. And you have to build solid foundations with people and you have to treat people with respect because there's so many people that I've met that have told me oh, no, I met you years ago, and you told me to do this. And I did it. And now I'm this and now come to my restaurant, you know, it's like, and you're like, and they've given you all this credit for things that you know, things that you don't remember, but it goes back to being present, listening and being willing to learn anywhere and from anyone.

Adam: Such great advice. What are the key ingredients of a hit single hooks?

Tricky: More hooks than a tackle box as I like to say. No, I think, obviously strong choruses. But I'd take it a step further that I try to make everything and a record good looking. I try to make the baseline so that the bass player wants to play it. I try to come up with guitar riffs that guitar players want to play. I try to come up with parts that singers want to sing. And I also want to make sure that the background people or the friends have something to say about it too. So there's a simplicity that I tried to get to do that in a two or three-minute song makes you feel like, oh, I could have done that. But he never could. Because how someone puts something in front of you, the presentation of making it look so easy until afterwards has to do with the craft itself. But I would say be catchy, be iconic, and have vision. And those are the three things that I like to bring to records. I have a vision for the record, you know, how do I want this record to make people feel and make decisions based upon what the goal of the song is. If you're not trying to make a hit, and you want to make a beautiful song, don't try to find the magic in the song. Don't try to force a song on the pop radio that wasn't meant to be that. If you're going to write a hit, write one.

Adam: I love that, Tricky. What can anyone listening do to better excel personally and professionally?

Tricky: I think one of the things that really sticks out to me is the approach. And it's something that I'm really focusing on across all of my life. It's easy to have a great approach about what you value, but when you start taking that approach, that mindset into everything that you do, if it's gonna be family time, get really into it, if it's gonna be work time, dive fully into it, if you're focused, like put the phone down. Really take that time, though, to have a really strong approach about what you do. And from a mental standpoint, and then add that with the approach with the mentality of goal setting. You know, don't spend a lot of time working jobs, find a passion. You know, don't spend time just killing time. Find the thing that you could do for the rest of your life for free and try to make it that thing that you make your money doing.

Adam: I love it. Thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Tricky: Thank you so much for having me. I appreciate that.

Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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