Casting and Coaching

I recently went one on one with Andra Reeve-Rabb. Andra is the former director of prime-time casting for CBS-TV in New York, where she worked on "The Big Bang Theory," "How I Met Your Mother," "Two and a Half Men," "CSI," "CSI: NY," "CSI: Miami," "The New Adventures of Old Christine," "Judging Amy," "Numbers," "Without a Trace," "NCIS," "Everybody Loves Raymond" and many others. Previously, she was a freelance film and television casting associate for Universal TV, NBC, "Private Practice," "The Conan O’Brien Show," and feature films including "The Ice Storm," "Home for the Holidays," "Striptease" and "Bad Boys." Andra is now the dean of the School of Entertainment Arts at the prestigious Savannah College of Art and Design (SCAD), where she guides and mentors the next generation of film and television professionals in Georgia – one of the world’s leading destinations for filming. As the director of the only professionally run casting office at the university level in the world, Andra has placed more than 250 performing arts students in film and television projects shot in Georgia and in numerous feature films and TV shows including The Poison Rose, Emperor, Gemini Man, Lizzie, Gifted, Magic Mike XXL, Stranger Things, Walking Dead, Z: The Beginning of Everything, and Netflix's Gods Among Us. She has also mentored former employees and students who have become casting directors themselves, and Variety Magazine named her one of the top ten entertainment educators in the world.

Adam: Thanks again for taking the time to share your advice. First things first, though, I'm sure readers would love to learn more about what sparked your interest in entertainment and in casting?

Andra: That's a great question. I started with a love of all things: acting, dancing music. I was obsessive as a child about, you know? I wanted to be a part of it. I didn't know what kind of jobs there were other than being an actor. So I went and I studied and got my degree in acting and directing and the whole time I was doing it, Adam, I knew that in my gut, that's not ultimately what was going to make me happy, but I knew it was my step into it into the entertainment world. So the second I got the chance, I graduated, I moved to New York City, and I immediately took an internship at this brand new show called The Conan O'Brien Show. It was the first week he was on the air, and I was a casting intern and all of a sudden that all fell into place and my kind of love of “Oh wait, the woman who played the lead and Sound of Music is also the woman who was the lead and Mary Poppins”, you know, that kind of part of my love and my obsession of watching old movies and being a part of that world kind of all came together. And I knew that the language that I had learned as an actor and director was going to serve me as a casting director. So I got really lucky because it was love at first sight and I completely, you know, jumped in and never stopped. So I was an intern there and then that kind of turned into becoming kind of an assistant on several different television shows, and then I became the New York outpost for movies or tv shows that were coming into New York that needed an associate in casting, and I met my mentor, who is a woman named Linda Louis, who's the most fabulous casting director and woman on the planet. And she does all of Shonda Rhimes shows. So she casts How to Get Away with Murder and Grey's Anatomy and all of those shows. And at the time, she said, “Hey, do you want to learn LA and come be my associate, my assistant up here?” And so I did. And I jumped into Los Angeles and worked on some David E. Kelley series like The Practice and I started on Ally McBeal and I got a call from CBS in New York and they said, “We're looking for this director, this manager position. Do you want to come back and be the manager of primetime casting at CBS in New York and oversee all the pilots?” And I said, “Absolutely.” So that bounced me back to New York. And this was over a very short period. I mean, I moved kind of fast and furious up the ranks and found out myself as the director of primetime casting at CBS for over 10 years, and I absolutely loved every second of it. I oversaw pilot casting from New York and on all the shows we were working on, and the last couple of shows that I worked on were The Big Bang Theory and How I Met Your Mother before I came to SCAD. So that's kind of my journey in a nutshell.

Adam: How did you get to the pinnacle of the casting world? What experiences failures, setbacks, or challenges have both been most instrumental to your growth and success?

Andra: I think I would say that my ability to always say yes has always served me best. So I was just the person, Adam, who stayed the longest and worked the hardest was absolutely the person you could rely on to have a positive attitude and get the work done, and I think that is what kind of launched me to be that person that could always come through. I mean, that's something certainly that I share with my students now; be there, be present, be ready. And that's who I always was. And so I would say, you know, the height of my professional career before transitioning- although being at SCAD I haven't left my professional career I've just kind of merged the two was my tenure at CBS and working on those shows and being able to discover new talent and being able to identify hit TV series and look at that, so I think that that is really what kind of served me and got me where I am, and it's something that continues to serve me to always just be that person that can say, “Yeah, that's a great idea,” and “What about this?”

Adam: Can you share a couple of stories from your days as director of primetime casting for CBS that would either shock or entertain fans of the shows that you worked on?

Andra: There are two actually, and this is more of an executive side of things, but at the end of casting, we would all get together as executives, right before the announcements and we would watch all the shows, and we would decide which ones we would all kind of, you know- ultimately it was up to the head of the network, but they would listen to our opinions on this and we would watch them all day and it was great part of the job was getting to see all that work in action, and I remember being the voice in the room because I've never shied away from sharing my thoughts on you know, what's good, what's not. And I remember saying “CSI. Like who is ever going to watch the show? It is so graphic. Who's gonna tune in to watch a bullet enter a body and goes through it and out the other side. No way. I am telling you now this show is never going to make it." So yeah, probably what nine CSI’s later I think I was really wrong on that one. The flip side of that was that I was the voice, and one of the few voices in the room, that when we saw the screening of The Big Bang Theory - everybody else was like, “Really? We're gonna watch a show about a bunch of math nerds, like who is gonna watch this? I was like, “Everyone's gonna watch this. This show is going to be something that someone is going to hook into. The writing is brilliant, the actors are brilliant.” I was partial to the fact that we had found Jim Parsons out of New York, so I was already completely all-in on that. So yeah, I think those were probably two of my CBS moments that were both, you know, my best and my worst call on a good show. And then I'll say one more thing, which is kind of fun for those people who enjoyed How I Met Your Mother. The original person that they were looking at for Barney, which was ultimately played by Neil Patrick Harris, was Bradley Cooper. That's how he was described; that he was literally like the most suave, beautiful, you know, leading man you've ever seen. And, yeah, I mean, Neil Patrick Harris absolutely went after this part. He kept sending in a tape saying “this is right, this is right, this is right,” and I really loved that because that's something I now share with my students just in terms of, you know, having that attitude of “let me show you.” I mean, don't be obnoxious about it, but if you believe in something, go for it and get yourself heard. So, yeah, that would be my CBS a couple of things.

Adam: What do you look for when you are casting roles and what do you look for in actors or actresses who are not yet brand names that will give you insight into whether they will become stars?

Andra: Yeah, I love that. I have to tell you, that's one of the most exciting things about being a casting director, we all, whether actors know it or not, we all wear these little badges of honor of actors that you give your first job to, and you feel very connected to them and kind of responsible. And it's interesting because it's something that they don't often even realize; that you were such an advocate of theirs in that casting room because I think being a really good casting director is being somebody who has a wealth of knowledge of actors, and then has an ability to really have a strong opinion, and a guiding hand towards putting those pieces of the puzzle together. It's really exciting. It's always a puzzle and it's always about kind of complementing these different pieces. I say this to my students all the time: walking into a room is when the audition really begins. I think a lot of young actors make the mistake of thinking that the audition begins when the first line is read, and it actually begins when the person first walks in, and the time spent in the chit-chat before you, quote, “get to work” means everything. You learn more in that moment about the temperament, the person's ability to connect. And listen; all actors aren't great at kind of generals or meetings, but I find that that's a moment that's important, and so I think when a person walks in a room with a confidence, and security in who they are and what they're bringing into the room that's infectious, and somebody who's really a somebody, who's really prepared with the material and has made choices, and then boom. Part of being a casting director is saying, “Hey, that was a really good choice you made. But can you try it this way?” Because we always have the insight as to what the director and what the producers are looking for. So you have to trust that the voice of the casting director is the voice of the director and the producer, and if you're saying, “Hey, that was amazing, but can you try it this way?” And the ability that the actor has to pivot in that moment and bring exactly the direction that you're asking for, whether they've prepared it that way or not, is everything. It's your directability. It's kind of your talent level. But there is that elusive thing, Adam, that is star quality. There just are people who walk in and you know. I saw Chris Pine when he was an intern at a Williamstown Theatre Festival. I would always do my job to be a good casting director and go out seeking talent all the time. And on the east coast. The East Coast for me was seeking talent in London, Toronto, Chicago, and basically, you know, all up and down the eastern seaboard. So I would go everywhere, go to Broadway shows every night, I go to comedy clubs, I go to all the film festivals. And I saw Chris Pine and he was an intern at the Williamstown Theatre Festival, and man, I threw some sides at him and he just clicked and I knew- I knew. I have all my old notes and it's so fun to go back over because the people who you have an instinct about tend to be the people who you flash forward two years later and there they are. And I'll say that the flip side of that is every good casting director- I have a motto; nothing is ever over - It's just over there. And I feel like good casting directors feel that way about actors because if they have a spark, they're going to grow. You can never throw an actor out. You can never be like “Oh, talent-free, moving on,” because they're always going to grow with every part, with every time they fall in love, with every time they see a piece of art. Every time they see a piece of theater, they change, they shift, they get better. So I think that constantly touching base and bringing actors back in and watching them grow is part of the excitement of being a really good casting director.

Adam: Beyond what you already shared, what are your tips for actors and actresses?

Andra: Get to know your business. Get to know your industry. You need to know more than anybody else. You need to eat it up and be voracious about it because nothing lights up other people. We all talk a language. We all speak a language and if you haven't seen what is currently happening in your industry, then you're not going to understand that language. If I say to somebody, “Oh, well, this show is kind of like Gilmore Girls meets Mad Men,” then they're not going to understand the tone of Mrs. Maisel. And if I'm casting Mrs. Maisel, then that's what I'm saying, okay, it's a period piece, but with Amy Sherman-Palladino it’s rapid-fire delivery with that kind of bite and comedy. And then that actor can go, “Oh, got it.” Boom and they're in. So I always say to actors, you know, be the expert in the room. That's your business. There's so little you can control as an actor because you're the seller, I'm the buyer. The casting director is like, I need two of those, three of these, and one of those. The actor isn’t what you want or what you need for this part. So in order to know what you have and know your business, that's one of the things that you can do to kind of control your steps in this business. So I say to all of my students, you need to do your homework and your homework is watching television and your homework is reading; getting all the online magazines and blogs and you know, watch all the movies. See what people are talking about. There's nothing I don't watch, and there's nothing I don't see. And I have a very busy life, but I make it a priority to make sure I'm up on everything that's happening.

Adam: What compelled you to leave network television for education and what are the biggest similarities and differences between your jobs then and now?

Andra: I am a child of a college professor and a middle school teacher. It's in my blood. The whole time I was at CBS, I would always do these workshops at different universities on audition techniques because I felt like people were coming out of programs and they may have been good actors, but I couldn't tell because they weren't trained in the business side. They didn't know how to audition or they didn't have the skill set of how to walk into a room, what sides were, what to deliver, how to do it, because auditioning is its own skill, and so I do these workshops. So after my 10 years at CBS- I loved it so much. I loved every minute of it until I had twins and then I made a huge decision and all my friends were like, “You're crazy. You can't leave.” And I was like, “No, I don't want to miss it. I don't want to miss it.” And so I came to visit Savannah and I'm a dyed-in-the-wool New Yorker. I never imagined my life anywhere else. And I came to visit Savannah because my family had moved down here. My brother and his wife and I met this remarkable woman named Paula Wallace, who's the president of SCAD, at a dinner, and she said, “Hey, what would it look like to do what you did at CBS, but here at this university?” And I was like, “Hmm, interesting, what would that look like?” And all of a sudden, it was the perfect marriage of everything I loved about being in film and television at CBS and everything I used to love about giving back as a person doing these workshops. And so that was it. My husband is a writer and can kind of be anywhere and we took a year abroad to live in Savannah. We left our life in New York and brought our twins here. And I really started as somebody who was just gonna open a casting office at a universe- at this incredible University- and see how that was, and I just fell in love. That was it. In the same way that I'd fallen in love. with being a casting director, I fell in love with being able to be an educator, and it was a natural fit. And what started as the casting office- what I found at other universities was that everything was siloed. Adam, the film department wouldn't work with a theater department who wouldn't work with the production design department who didn't work with the sound department and I thought, well, that makes zero sense, because in the industry, everybody works together. So I opened this casting office to kind of bridge all of those departments, specifically performing arts to film and television, and I started holding casting sessions for film students, and they got to see what that was and the actors got to go through the process, and then as Georgia kind of exploded with the new film and TV scene, my role exploded and I started to expand it. I was a professor and I ran that office and then I became the chair, and now I'm the dean. And I'm, again, as my acting informed me in becoming a casting director, my casting director's life influenced me in becoming this dean, because in the same way that I worked on puzzles, I still work on puzzles. My puzzle now involves all of my programs, and being strategic about how to elevate and work with all those programs to give the students an incredible experience that mirrors exactly what's happening in industry. So to me, why it actually was seamless, is that SCAD is singular. We run the School of Entertainment Arts like a studio or a network where everybody comes together and a classroom is a soundstage, a major soundstage. The state of the art equipment with you know, fisher booms that are flown in from Los Angeles that you know, serve our sitcom set and our sitcom, which is the only one that's being produced at the university level, ongoing. We have a series. Every year we launch a new one looks exactly like if you were in Burbank, so to me, it's seamless, except now my work is about launching the careers of not just actors, but filmmakers and sound designers and costume designers and set designers and it is esteemed entertainment students and it is the most joyful, incredible exciting work I've ever done.

Adam: What is your best advice for the next wave of film and television professionals and film and television students trying to make it in the industry?

Andra: A quality that I think has helped me be successful as a leader and as a person in the industry, is that you are always that person who is there and saying yes. And what we get to do here is because of everything that's happening in Georgia. I am able to play students while they're still in school on all these sets, like Council of Dads, this new series by Tony Phelan and Joan Rater. And we have over 78 students and professors that are working on that show that’s shooting here in Savannah, and they're still in school, and they're working on this show. And so because you have somebody who comes from that world and knows the value of that experience, they're working and they're getting their education, and so we have alumni working on that show and throughout Georgia on different sets. So it's about taking those jobs; do the internship, do the PA work, get to know your way around the set, and make yourself invaluable. Always be there ready to help be a part of the solution. That, to me, is the most important thing. So any newcomer to this business, make sure you're looking around and you're finding those opportunities and you're finding mentors. Mentors mean the world. I would not be here today without my mentors and I think that's what we serve as; as faculty and as leadership. We are mentors to the next generation of film students.

Adam: In your experience, what are the defining qualities of an effective leader and how can leaders and aspiring leaders take their leadership skills to the next level?

Andra: I think that in order to be a strong leader, you have to have a strong vision, you have to be a good listener, you have to be someone who leaves with a constant thought of what's next. One of my mentors was Linda Lowy and one of the things that I learned from her was to be kind and to be compassionate, and I think that that has served me my whole life because there's this idea that kindness isn't a part of the equation, but it is because it’s in the same way that I used to make sure that actors felt comfortable when they came into the room. If you can make an environment where people can thrive, you win. I made an environment in a casting office that made an actor feel disarmed like, “Oh my gosh, wow, she's really nice.” Like, she's not here. There's no us and them, we're in it together. I needed the actor to get the part because then I'm done and I get to move on to the 700 other parts I have to cast. Why would I set up an environment where they didn't succeed? So I think that, as a leader, it's really important that you set up an environment where everybody can be their best and can succeed and can feel comfortable throwing out ideas. I think with my background and being raised by educators- there was no dumb question. And I am always asking questions, and I am still learning. I have never stopped learning and I never pretend to stop learning and I think that leaders who ask questions and are constantly looking to what's next by being informed about their industries and other people's industries and leading with that kindness and that compassion to let other people thrive and grow- that's huge. That is hugely important.

Adam: Who are the best leaders you were around during your days in the industry and what did you learn from them?

Andra: So my industry leaders were Linda Lowey, who is now also the head of casting for HBO television and also Shondaland, my mother, who is a really strong, incredible, compassionate woman who was a single mom raising kids in a small town in North Carolina, but opened their world to everything outside of that, you know? I knew about opera and Shakespeare and modern art, Rothko and Steppenwolf Theatre all from her. And that all came from that kind of voracious appetite that I'm talking about. Other leaders were, you know, my transition into academia, Paula Wallace, who is the president of this university, is my mentor. She is somebody who lives in action every single day by being involved, being committed to every detail of this incredible university that she created from the ground up. She's in every class, she comes to every show my students do, she's a champion of everybody. So those are those are my leaders. Those are my mentors and I still - even though I consider myself a strong leader - look to leaders. Paula Wallace is a leader that I constantly learn from, both academically and creatively. I think it is important as a leader to continue, at whatever level you are, to seek out other leaders as mentors.

Adam: How has the #MeToo movement changed the entertainment industry and casting in particular and what are some specific changes that are a byproduct of Time's Up and #MeToo?

Andra: I think it is the greatest thing to happen in the sense that there is an accountability across the board and a sensitivity that didn't exist before, frankly, and I think that it has given the space for people to feel like they have their voice and that it's really important to speak up. If there's anything that you are feeling uncomfortable about or that you're- I think for too long people, women in particular- I can only speak from the female perspective but I know friends, men too, who felt it, that they would just brush it off, brush it off, brush it off. And collectively, those slings and arrows, they add up. You can't just keep batting them away and I think the fact that now it's the standard that has shifted to the expectation that those slings and those arrows are unacceptable. They’ve fallen away, they've fallen away; and that's just an incredible environment for my colleagues and my students to walk into. So I think it's incredible and I think that we're all responsible for being mindful of it as leaders.

Adam: What are your best tips for leaders on leading post #MeToo?

Andra: All leaders need to understand boundaries and need to understand sensitivity And be aware of, of everything from content that you're producing and that you're writing and you're creating fabric of, of the pictures that you're making, so that everybody sees themselves on television and sees themselves. And here's their voices. You know, an example of that is we produced an all African American sitcom last year; written, directed, produced, cast all with our African American voices, because it was important for our students to feel they had a platform and a voice to be heard. A great majority of my film program are women. I feel a strong responsibility to be a mentor and to be a positive role model to those students, both women and men. But they get to see in action, a strong woman as a leader, and I think that we just always elevate, always find a way to elevate the conversation. Don't fall prey to things that you know will end up harming someone. So I think that that's really important.

Adam: What are your three best tips applicable to entrepreneurs, executives and civic leaders?

Andra: Civic leaders lead by example. Do not be a leader who expects something that you wouldn't do yourself. I think that there's no small task, there's no small job. I was just actually telling somebody this yesterday. You know, everybody chips in when we’re shooting the show and are awesome. One of the washing machines broke down and the costume students were like, “Oh my gosh, are we going to get these done by tomorrow for our next episode?” And I was like, “Girl, hand me those costumes.” And I took them home and I washed them and I ironed them all and I brought them back the next day. It's like, I'm the dean, I don't care if something needs to get done, you do it, you chip in, you give 100% of yourself and you don't ask anything that wouldn't be expected of you. And I think that's a really important thing for people who are, you know, in these positions, and it was kind of in the last thing I was saying just about constantly, constantly holding yourself up to a certain standard that you would expect of the people who work around you. Lead by doing, lead by doing, always, always. I am a big proponent of positivity and not Pollyanna. It’s about hey, we're gonna figure this out. I'm a big fixer and a problem solver and I think those are really important roles that a leader has to do. So, yes, be the champion of everybody who is around you and help problem-solve.

Adam: What are some of your biggest casting regrets?

Andra: Okay, I love this and I am going to get so much trouble for this but I'm just gonna say it. When I was at CBS, one of my things that I was responsible for was finding talent in London so I had great relationships with the agents in London and when they would have somebody and they would send them over, they would call me and they'd say, “Andra, please meet this person on a general.” And a general was literally bringing somebody in, getting to know them, giving them material from a show you're working on, and putting them on tape so everybody can get to know them. I met a young man named Daniel Craig and a young man named Idris Elba who came over and I said, “Oh my god, these guys are stars. These guys are stars.” And we put them on tape and sent them around and said, “We should find a role for these people.” And the message we got back was, “They're not leading men.” And I still to this day, think of the fact that James Bond, Daniel Craig, who was in Knives Out, was not a leading man, and that Idris Elba who now in talks for James Bond, were kind of shut down. So you know, it's not that it was a casting mistake that I made, but it is certainly something that I wish that we had pushed or advocated for more, knowing in my gut that those two men were going to be stars someday.

Adam: Is there anything else you would like to share?

Andra: It's really important to love what you do, and as cliche as that sounds, I think it shows every day in your work. And I have to tell you, as somebody who- this is everything to me, this role, finding SCAD, finding a place that is 100% committed to the success of their students, and the success of the next generation of artists, whatever the art is, whether you're sequential artists or you’re visual effects artists or you’re painters or you’re fashion designers, this environment at SCAD and the commitment that they have to their students with the best facilities, with the best educators, with the best opportunities with all these festivals and these engagements that we have with a Savannah film festival, with a TV festival that's specific to my discipline. That kind of commitment is singular. It is nothing I've ever experienced before and it's really incredible to be a part of it. You know, I have the chair of Film and Television is D.W. Moffett, and the fact that he's now starring in Bosch. And then he comes back to the set to help students who are taking directing, actors and saying, “Hey, well, when I was just on the set of Chicago Med or I was just on the set of How to Get Away with Murder, I was just on the set of Bosh, this is what you need to be thinking about,” and these are the conversations you need to be having, you know, that are kind of right from industry. There's nothing like it. So I think I just wanted to make the fact that I get to do what I do now with all the people around me, and all the incredible facilities- the fact that we're putting these students- I have this the last thing I'll say- but I'm so proud of them right now. You know, our alumni are, I mean, the number of alumni that were nominated and who’ve worked on Academy Award films this year is like no other. There's no other university. The fact that Hollywood Reporter named us one of the top-performing arts, film, and television production, design and costume design, and visual effects; we’re the only university that hit all of those. That's because we're doing something right. That's because we are creating the next generation of artists that are ready and are there ready to work. The movie, The Glorias was just shot here with Julie Taymor and Julianne Moore, about Gloria Steinem. I launched at Sundance Film Festival and I got to sit in the audience and hear Julie Taymor say, “Hey, I want to thank my friends at SCAD because those students are incredible. Warren is a central part of the success of this film.” That gives me goosebumps today; the idea that there's a place like this that's committed to making that next generation of brilliant filmmakers. Kayli Carter right now is starring on Mrs. America opposite Cate Blanchett. She was up for an Independent Spirit Award for Private Life. She graduated three years ago. Daron Gorton, who's the star of Dear White People and, and just did American Horror Story: 1984, three years ago. Kiki Richardson is my favorite story and I'll end on this. Kiki Richardson. Her name is Krysha. Kiki Richardson was a student who, five years ago I believe was, at the ATV Festival or Television Festival in Atlanta, and she got to have a masterclass with Terrence Howard, and she wrote down everything that man said and flash forward five years, she was hired to play the new love interest to Terrence Howard and star in the final season of Empire. And she, on her first day of set brought her notes that she had kept all these years and said to him, “Hey, I got to sit in a masterclass with you and this is what you said,” and he was blown away and she is so incredible on that show. It's moments like that. Those are my new badges. Those students are out there and they're making their mark in the world.