Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Former Ingredion CEO Ilene Gordon

I recently interviewed Ilene Gordon on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam: Our guest today was one of the first women to serve as the CEO of a Fortune 500 company, and was named by Fortune as one of the most powerful women in business for five consecutive years. Ilene Gordon was the CEO of Ingredion, which grew from $2 billion to $10 billion in market cap during her tenure. Ilene is also the author of the new book, Doubling Down: The Secret Sauce for Dual-Career Families. Ilene, thank you for joining us.

Ilene: Absolutely! Excited to be here and share my messages.

Adam: We’re excited to have you. You grew up in an era when the expectations and opportunities were dramatically different for men and for women. But dating back to your time in junior high, you pushed to do things that the guys were allowed to do, whether it was taking shop class, instead of sewing and cooking, taking physics when no girls in your school ever took physics, attending MIT when the male to female ratio was 10 to one. Can you take listeners back to those days back to that era? What drove you at such a young age to push for opportunities that were closed off to so many women of your day?

Ilene: Well, you know, Adam, when I grew up, I had a great family, and my parents were great supporters of being everything that you can be. So today, my sister is a filmmaker in Manhattan. So she went a different route. But she was very intent on that. And so we never thought about choosing a family or career, we always thought that the world was ours to achieve. And so I never held back. And even though there were some norms, I always wanted to be the best I could be. And so I'd say between my parents and the environment I was in and my personality was to just go for it. And so I used my mathematical, analytical skills to be successful and just push ahead.

Adam: When you were a student at MIT, you were aspiring to be a high school math teacher. My mom was a high school math teacher before retiring, and she grew up in a similar era, when that was the expectation no matter how good you were at math, the cap was to be a high school math teacher, you became a Fortune 500 CEO. How did that happen? Can you talk about what and who compelled you to change course? And what were the experiences and skills that allowed you to become the CEO of a multi billion dollar company?

Ilene: Well, you know, I think about that a lot. And the women I met at MIT, I mean, it really made a big difference in my career and my life in that these women were fantastic. And they all had aspirations to be PhDs, lawyers, doctors, and they achieved that. And so their influence on me was intense. And so they made me feel like I could do whatever I wanted to do. And so going into business, I was very interested in problem solving. And of course, being a high school math teacher is one way to do that. But I thought, well, I'm a big believer in the power of one, you know, going where there are others. And so business didn't have that many women that were successful. So I thought, well, why don't I go that route? These other women have aspirations. Why shouldn't I be like that? And so I went that route early on and went into consulting to be with smart people. I met my spouse there and ran different businesses. And I listened very well to a lot of people's advice along the way, and ended up being a Fortune 500 CEO, largely because I was very intent on delivering results. But also I think that what became my Midwestern lifestyle really honed in on those skills and that it really surprised me that Chicago has a lot of Fortune 500 companies, as does the East Coast. But by living in Chicago, I was surrounded by great people, great companies. And so going from MIT to Chicago, with a short stint along the way in London really was very helpful to my career. On many occasions,

Adam: In many moments, many times in your career, you were the only female in the room, or the only female at your level, within your company or even within your industry. What advice do you have for women who are trying to make it in fields dominated by men? And what advice do you have for men in male-dominated fields on how to be part of the solution?

Ilene: Well, certainly, the advice that I give to both men and women, especially women is, you know, think about the job that you're in, and focus on that being the best that you can be, and take risks. So don't just stay with what's comfortable, and get global experience. And that means more than just traveling there. You have to live in an international and global environment, we call that international becoming global. I'm a big believer in women and men getting P&L experience, or profit and loss. Don't just stay in strategy, or legal or HR, but really take those risky positions. And then mentor others, be willing to give you wisdom and learning and to go out of your way to do that. And so that's how I built my career in those particular ways. So that's the advice that I give to women. And I think that men have to be supportive of women. And so in our book, we talk about being the right partner. And we had a big debate, my spouse and I about marrying the right partner. And so a few people came up to us, and we gave a few speeches. And they said, well, I'm already married, what do I do? And we said, well, anybody can become the right partner. And so what does that mean? That means being supportive, and in the family, and in your career, and having that good communication. And so people can become that to don't just rely on what somebody was, if they have that inclination, you should be there for each other. And so the advice that I like to give to both men and women is very important.

Adam: You gave great advice. And we're going to talk more about your book and more about the advice you share in your book later on in the conversation. I want to highlight a few of the great pieces of wisdom that you just shared for listeners. Number one, the importance of taking risks. You can't grow as a leader, if you're afraid to make mistakes, if you're afraid to challenge yourself, if you're unafraid to push your comfort zone. Number two, the importance of mentorship. We talk a lot on this podcast about how finding a mentor and having a mentor can help you grow, help you develop and help you become a better leader. But I lean to your point, becoming a mentor is instrumental to helping you grow, helping you develop, helping you excel, helping you get to where you want to be.

Ilene: Absolutely, you know, a lot of people have come up to me and say, would you be my mentor? And I say to people, if you don't know that person, how can you be a mentor? So I always say my advice to people is to find a mentor, which is different from a champion in your company. But finding a mentor should be somebody who knows you well, who will push you to take risks, or push you out of your comfort zone. So I was fortunate to have some great mentors who did that for me. And it wasn't about being kind, not that they were unkind, but to really push me to that extreme. And so I remember I had a mentor when I was building my career at the packaging Corporation of America. And he was both my champion and my mentor. He was a CEO of a business called Monte Heyman. And he used to push me to take on P&L jobs, and to travel and to meet people and talk about the business. And don't just relax on your laurels what you've achieved, but really to continually learn. And so I love that. So I thrived on that. My spouse was a great mentor. He still is. We talked about the different issues that make leaders successful. And my father, who grew up as a CPA, was very much a mentor to me in the early days, where he said you can do anything you want to do, you just have to set your mind to it. So I'd say I probably had three mentors in my life. And I try to get back on the boards that I'm on. So I'm an active board of directors. And I try to mentor people that I come in contact with. Now that could be anywhere from the head of human resources to a legal counsel. And it's somebody who's running a business. And so it's very important to make yourself available for that. And so I give a lot of advice to people, even CEO’s of the business. I give advice to the presiding director of International Paper. And I always take my learnings as being a CEO, and I expose them to the CEO of international papers, we talk about that a lot.

Adam: Ilene, as someone who's never been married, I don't know that I'm in a position to give marital advice. But I take the fact that you and your husband talk about what makes a great leader is a sign of a great marriage. How can anyone listening to this conversation become a better leader?

Ilene: Hey, you know, I think it's interesting because my spouse and I've been married for, well, 42 years. And it's a great give and take relationship and we know a lot about what we've been through. And we have two great kids in our family. And one, our son has two kids, and we've two grandkids. But I think one of the most important characteristics of a leader is to be authentic, to be approachable. And that's where I credit Chicago as a great environment to be in. And I've been a great listener. And so you learn from the people around you. So I think being a key characteristic is to be authentic, be a great listener, and be very organized because being a leader means that you have to have priorities every day, you know, everybody wants a piece of your time. And if you say yes to everything, it may not be the best way to spend your time in the business. So I think that the best leaders have those characteristics. And they think about how they spend their time and how they relate to people. And they pick their spots. And that's by being organized and having a sounding board, like your family, your spouse is very important because they don't let you be on the top of the heap, they will give you a hard time. And so I used to say you'd be in the office and you would be king. Everybody wants to know what you think and what you would do. And then you'd come home to your family. And they'd say, okay, but we need to get dinner tonight. You know, we need to figure this out. And so if you're an authentic person, you relate to that, you don't say, well, I'm too busy for that, you understand the needs of the family. And so you prioritize that to be a great leader, and a great parent and a great spouse. So I think it's important to constantly change your beat, and be adaptable to change your roles.

Adam: Ilene, I love it. That is something that I say over and over and over again; great leaders are great listeners. And to your point on the topic of authenticity, I give a talk on the core principles of resonant leadership. And the first thing that I talked about is the importance of self-awareness. Before you can effectively lead others, you need to be able to lead your own life. And it all starts with understanding who you are being in touch with yourself, being self-aware. And if you're not an authentic person, if you're not someone who others are going to authentically follow. You're not going to be a leader to listen to, you're not going to be effective in driving the kind of success that you're ultimately going to want in leading your organization. To your point on the importance of being organized, I want to ask you, while you were CEO of a Fortune 500 company, can you talk about your daily routine? How did you manage your time and competing priorities? How did you ultimately maximize and optimize each day to get the most out of it?

Ilene: Well, you know, that's a very good question. So every CEO has a board of directors that are essentially your boss. And that could be anywhere from nine to 12 people. And so they helped you set priorities, you know, the goals for profitability, and sustainability and succession planning. And so I always had those set of goals in front of me. And the way I spent my day was a combination of focusing on the business, focusing on the people in the industry and dividing my time accordingly. And so it would take time to do that. And I was a big believer in a cadence, you know, part of my career was working in global companies. And it's very important when you're traveling, to have a schedule on how you spend your time. For example, on an eight hour plane flight, I would go to Europe when I worked for a French company. And I always had a procedure, where I would work for two hours, I would eat for two hours, I would sleep, and then get off the plane and be very fresh. And so that type of schedule, I took to the businesses that I was always running, and we have a meeting, I don't know, every Monday morning, we'd have quarterly reviews, we would look at the results of the quarter of the month, it depends on the business, you know, what makes the most sense. And so we would get the people in front of you, not just the five people that were running it, but the top 25 people who were meeting with customers, and so you never have enough time in your day to do everything you want to do. But you're right, you have to prioritize. So I would have a schedule. And I'm not an early morning person, but I would stay at the office. I get there, maybe I don't know, 8:30 in the morning, I would stay till 7:30 at night. And I would make sure that I always knew what I wanted to accomplish that day. And then the next day. And I'm big on lists, even today, I have like 5, 10 pieces of paper that have lists of things that I want to get done. And so you want to be known as a person who gets things done. And so that takes being organized. And so I think that there are a lot of ways that you can spend your time. But you have to have those priorities that are focused on the goals. You know, I spend time with investors, employees, customers, but you have to make sure that you are being appropriate, you know, with your time and you can't just go to meetings. You could spend all your time doing that, but then you're not going to achieve your results. So I think keeping a scorecard or the results that you're trying to achieve in front of you, is probably the most important thing a CEO can do. And make sure that the leaders of the company understand what those goals are.

Adam: Ingredion grew from $2 billion to $10 billion in market cap under your watch. What are the keys to growing and scaling your business and to building a winning organizational culture?

Ilene: You don't think about the time or how long it takes to build the business. But you think about, am I creating value for my shareholders? And so growing it means that different people have different parts of the business and have to have responsibility for that area. So as an example, we started as Corn Products and became Ingredion, and we bought a company along the way called National Starch that was in very healthy ingredients. And we ran the business by region. So some regions were going faster than others. So, South America and Asia were growing faster than North America and Europe. And so those leaders were very focused on growing with the market or even gaining share. And so as a CEO, you're the coach, and you are the quarterback, and you are making sure that people understand what their goals are. So maybe the goal of North America was to grow 2% and maybe it was 10% in Asia, because the market was growing. And so we made sure that people were growing and that we had the capacity that we were investing in to put it in those particular regions. And you can easily think, you know, if the North American guy might think, well, I'm bringing in less in Asia, so I'm not as important but you are, you're creating a lot of value in that region, because there are a lot of consumers who are interested in those food ingredients. And so you have to make sure that all the regional heads are continuing to grow with their particular region according to what the market is doing.

Adam: What did you look for in the people you hired and what are your best tips on the topic of hiring?

Ilene: Well, you know, I always look for people that are very results oriented like I was, and so they wanted to focus on their not just their numbers, they also treated people well, you know? I'm a big believer of the golden rule, treat other people how you want to be treated, and you want them to stretch people to do the best that they can. But you want to be humane about how you do that. And so part of that would be understanding the people who work for you what their needs are. So I remember that we wanted to move somebody from Illinois to Indiana, and he said, no, I can't do that because then I can't have brunch with my family every Sunday. You know, it's only, you know, it's a five hour drive. Okay. And so I remember that I was a little frustrated that people weren't as movable as I thought they should be. But I also respected that that was a priority for that person. So as long as the leader knows what their employees priorities are, there'll be a great leader. And so I look for people that are results focused and in touch with their people in their goals, and treat people, right. And so all of that is important in understanding how they're going to run their business.

Adam: Do you have any tips for listeners who are hiring? We have listeners who are at large companies, we have entrepreneurs, we have CEO’s, we have hiring managers, any tips on the topic of hiring that you think are worth sharing?

Ilene: Well, I think that by hiring people you can hire your own image, but I don't recommend that because it may be different goals for the particular business. So I recommend that you look for people that are really driven and focused on the business. Now you can look at their track record. I'm a big believer in what we talked a little earlier about mentors, because I believe when you're hiring somebody, you're hiring, not just them, and who's mentored them, but who mentored their mentor. And so I always look at their background, and who they work for, and how their career path was and the decision making. So I recommend that you look for people that are driven, and have a game plan. And if the growth of your company is global, then of course you don't want people who just want to live in North America, you want to look for people that think of themselves as citizens of the world. And it's not always easy to find them, but it's doable. And so all the businesses that I've been part of, we've always looked for people that fit with a particular business and where the growth opportunities are. And so and it could be male, it could be female, you want to be looking for those that are very focused and driven, and are willing to put in that time to achieve success.

Adam: Balance is a topic top of mind to many whether you're married, single, have kids or don't have kids. You and your husband had two kids, as you were building your respective careers in your journey, balancing work and balancing family is the theme of your new book doubling down. How can we attain balance? How can anyone listening have a successful career and a successful life outside of work at the same time?

Ilene: You know, I think that people shouldn't dwell on balance. I mean, if you're willing to have a career where you're planning and busy, it can be very successful, if you're organized. And you do have to give up some things. So if it's important that you have dinner parties and a big social life, you're probably not going to have time for a career that's very demanding. And so the advice I give people is don't worry about the balance. It's really about how you spend your time. And so for us, our priority was our family after it was career and family. And those were the two priorities. And those were, they went back and forth room one and two, two, and one. And there was no, there was no time for three, four or five. And my time for myself was maybe late at night. In the book, we talk a lot about our kids and how we prioritize being comfortable with hiring people like nannies. And we actually were able to afford a live-in nanny, because we were building our careers over time. And we found a great person who we treated very well as an employee and as one of the family. And so you have to be willing to do that now. I mean a lot of people that say, well, I don't want to have a live-in nanny, I want to bring my child to daycare. And that could be the right solution. Now, if it works with the position that they're in, and so you know, a lot of people will say, I don't want anybody in my space. Well, when I talk about balance, you've done some things to make it all successful. And so you can't be hung up on having a perfect life and perfect every point of view at every point in time. And so I think that if you're willing to have different priorities at different points in time, it can be very successful. But it is a very busy set of decisions that you're making at every point in time.

Adam: It sounds like the key takeaways are the importance of prioritization and understanding that you need to make tradeoffs. You need to make tradeoffs in your personal life, you need to make tradeoffs in your professional life. And it's a matter of understanding what you are and are not willing to tradeoff.

Ilene: No, absolutely. You know, as an example, a lot of people I know, want to make their home their perfect place. And so they're willing to basically hire somebody to help them do it. I actually always looked for a finished home, because we never had time to make a lot of the decisions. So we wanted to be in an environment that was more finished and appropriate for the family. And we kind of laugh about it that we had a family home for about 20 years. And at the end, when we were getting ready to rewire, which is one of my favorite words, no retire. We were actually redoing this home, this is before COVID. And we were selling the home. And one of my kids said, gee, why didn't you do this when we were living there? And the answer was, it would have been very disruptive. You know, we did the home to sell it. And so in today's world, you have to make those decisions. Do you want something that's finished? Or do you want to put your stamp on it? What's your priority? You know, as I said before, you know, do you want a big social life and dinner parties? Or are you willing to travel for your position? And we were willing to do all that to have a successful career and a successful family. And our kids, if you talk to them, they don't feel like we made those choices, that they weren't prioritized in that. And so we've made sure that they felt important at every point in time. We missed a few events. We love to tell the story of when my daughter was in middle school, I said to my spouse, why don't you be the coach of our basketball team and my husband, we put this in our book, but he was traveling as a management consultant. He was out of town quite a bit. So I said, well, look, I'll be your stand-in. So I remember once he called me, and he said, I can't be at the beginning practice. I have a meeting. He was in Detroit as a management consultant. I said I got this. So I went to practice. I was in Chicago, then we went to practice. And I was not a great basketball coach or athlete. But I went up to the other parent, we were sharing the gym and I said, why don't we scrimmage you? And the other parents said that's a great idea. He was a coach, not a professional coach, but he was a dad. So he knew. And so our team's got a great workout. And I went home. And then I talked to my spouse. And I said it was a fine practice. And they are ready for the weekend game. And I explained to him what happened. And so it was a matter of being creative and inventive. And not again, when I said you don't look for perfection, because then you'll make choices that don't meet everybody's expectations. And so I love that example that we were willing to try things that were a little different.

Adam: On the topic of trade-offs, because this podcast is called 30 Minute Mentors, I try to keep these conversations as close to 30 minutes as possible. But I do want to ask you a few more questions. So we'll make them rapid-fire questions. What was the best part and the worst part of being a Fortune 500 CEO?

Ilene: Well, the best part was when you had employees or investors, who would say you've done a great job, creating a lot of value for them. And I love to tell the story about how one of my employees didn't want to change the name to Ingredion. He was a corn products guy. And after we made this acquisition and created value and changed the name, the stock price really reflected and went up. And he said it was a great idea. So that was a great day. The worst part was when you didn't do well, and you had to restate earnings. And that happened to me once or twice. And I call them the bad surprises.  The market didn't cooperate exactly as you thought they would. And those were always tough days.

Adam: You made a number of significant acquisitions while you were CEO, you mentioned one of them earlier on, what are your best tips on the topic of deal-making?

Ilene: Well, I'm a big believer in acquisitions that create value. Now the bankers will push you, and they'll show you how the numbers will create a lot of value. And some of those numbers are based on your rating going up. But I always used to say, let's be conservative, and look at businesses to acquire that really will make us better for our customers. And so that was always behind my mind and for the employees. How is this going to be a win/win? And so we've got a national start. We bought a company called Kerr Concentrates. And so we were looking at hoping ingredients that would build a portfolio that will create value for all of the stakeholders.

Adam: How can anyone develop a winning mindset?

Ilene: You know, anybody can if you focus on the right goal, and the goals are always about creating value. I mean, it's my favorite word. And I use it on my boards a lot. And it's all about what's going to create the most value. And it’s value for not just the shareholders, but its employees and to communities. It's the suppliers, and being successful can be inherited. Anybody can take that on being successful. But it's a mindset, you know? You have to wake up every day and love what you're doing, and be very focused on that. And it's not about what it does for you, but it's what it does for you and the community.

Adam: Ilene, what can anyone do to become more successful personally and professionally?

Ilene: Well, I'm a big believer of people moving ahead, and that you don't want to give up. Whether you're rewired or you're in the middle of your career, I do believe that anybody can be successful as we talked about before, but you have to be willing to move ahead and keep going and plugging away. And it's hard work, but it's very doable.

Adam: Ilene, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Ilene: Absolutely.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

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