Thirty Minute Mentors Podcast Transcript: Warby Parker Co-Founder Neil Blumenthal

I recently interviewed Neil Blumenthal on my podcast, Thirty Minute Mentors. Here is a transcript of our interview:

Adam:  Our guest today is the co-founder of a company that disrupted the world of eyewear. Neil Blumenthal is the co-founder and co-CEO of Warby Parker, a multibillion-dollar business and leader in the direct-to-consumer space. Neil, thank you for joining us.

Neil: Thanks so much for having me.

Adam: You grew up in New York, you did your undergrad at Tufts, and spent five years working for a nonprofit social enterprise called VisionSpring prior to going to business school and starting Warby Parker. Can you take listeners back to your early days? What were the key experiences and lessons that were foundational to your success?

Neil: Sure. So, as you mentioned, I grew up in Greenwich Village in New York City. My dad was an international tax consultant and my mom was a nurse. I think my dad's work and him always talking to me about it helped just broaden my horizons of having a global perspective and being a global citizen. And my mother, just being a nurse, and dedicated her professional life to caring for others, I think, instilled in me this desire to give back. So, when I thought about what I wanted to do when I grew up, it was really about how do you make the world better? And that's why I went to Tufts to study international relations. And it was there that I brought in that global perspective. And it was an interest in trying to do good in the world that led me to meet Dr. Jordan Castillo, who was an eye doctor. He had this idea to train low-income women in rural parts of India and Bangladesh, and Africa and Latin America, just different parts of the world, to start their own businesses giving vision tests and selling glasses in their communities. And that just made a lot of sense to me. First of all, I didn't know until Jordan told me that there's over a billion people on the planet that need glasses and don't really have access to them. And that just didn't make any sense to me because glasses have been around a really long time, about 800 years. So, we're failing as a species when we can't provide basic health products like glasses to people in need. And I thought that this idea of training people to start their own businesses to solve this problem made a lot of sense. There's this idea that if you are able to create a business around helping someone, every pair of glasses that one sells to someone else, helps you reach one more person because it creates the economic incentive for that person to reach another person in need. Whereas if you just give away a pair of glasses for free, it's zero-sum and you're just constantly on the treadmill of raising more and more capital. So, I thought that the idea was really powerful. And I jumped in and moved down to El Salvador and worked on this pilot program. And yeah, five years later, I went to business school after building this great program at VisionSpring.

Adam: And it was while you're in business school that you linked up with a few of your classmates and came up with the idea for Warby Parker and launched Warby Parker. How did the idea for Warby Parker emerge? And how did you and your classmates take the idea and turn it into a business?

Neil: I think the best business ideas solve real problems. And this started as a real problem that my classmates and friends acutely felt. And that was, Dave had just lost a $700 pair of glasses in the seat pocket of an airplane when he was traveling before business school. And as a full-time graduate student, he wasn't about to spend that type of money on a new pair of glasses. Jeff similarly had a pair of glasses that were several years old and desperately needed to be replaced. And Andy posed the question, “Why can't you order glasses online?”. We had this conversation in Winter of 2008. And this was when Zappos was selling shoes, a category that people didn't think could be sold online. Blue Nile was selling engagement rings, another category that people thought couldn't be sold online. So now, we take it for granted that glasses and about every category are sold online. But back then it was pretty novel. So, we just had this idea of oh, well, we can use the internet to create direct relationships with customers, basically cut out the middleman, and sell glasses for a fraction of what they would cost elsewhere. During my five years working at the nonprofit VisionSpring, I've learned a little bit about the optical industry. I've even traveled to factories where glasses were made. And when I was working at VisionSpring here, I was producing glasses for people living on less than $4 a day. But at the same factories on the same production lines, glasses were being made to be sold in the U.S. and Europe for hundreds of dollars. And it was clear that the retail costs of what people were buying for and paying for glasses in New York City, for example, wasn't justified by the manufacturing costs. It was because of a certain industry dynamic. And as business school students, the four of us started to just dive into the market dynamics and learned a ton about how this market currently works. That's half the market. Our independent optometric practices that buy frames and lenses wholesale and then mark them up three to five times to customers. And you have that half the market that's organized optical retail-like chain stores. And a lot of that is controlled by one company, EssilorLuxottica, that owns Oakley, Ray-Ban, all of our people's personal and our net. They also own some of the largest optical chains like Pearl Vision and Sunglass Hut and LensCrafters. They also license major fashion brands like Prada and Gucci, Dolce and Gabbana. So, what we found was that if you were a consumer, you hadn't heard of these big companies. But if you walked into an optical shop, you thought that you had this illusion of choice of all these different brands. You don't realize that a lot of it comes from the same company. And then when you go to pay for it, oh, the second-largest vision insurance plan in the country I met is also owned by this same company. So, as business students and aspiring entrepreneurs, we were actually excited to learn this about the market. I think most people would be scared off. But it demonstrated, hey, this industry is ripe for disruption. First of all, it's massive, around $160 billion globally, $44 billion in the U.S. And it's one in which customers aren't happy. The data that we see show that net promoter scores for the industry are under 30. More on par with airlines, for example. So, that got us excited that we could build a business that charged far less, delivered better customer service, and could one day become a great beloved brand.

Adam: And you've been able to build that brand so successfully. And it was a brand that you and your friends really created out of thin air. The name, Warby Parker, which I'd love to dive more deeply into, was a figment of the imagination of a bunch of guys on the Wharton campus. And a few years later, it's a household name brand. How did you and your classmates turn the Warby Parker brand into such a successful brand so quickly? And what are your best tips for anyone listening on how to build their brand?

Neil: I think the best brands are authentic and they're true to the folks that have started it and then are maintained by reinforcing the values that the brand stands for. And we spent a lot of time in the early days saying hey, what type of business are we trying to build? Why are we doing this? And which becomes the brand's mission and vision. And then how are we going to do this? Which is usually governed by a company’s or brand’s core values. And then, of course, what are we going to do with the strategy? And we would spend hours, literally, in brainstorming sessions. Hey, what are we trying to do here? Okay, we're trying to provide vision for all. We want to ensure that people have the tools they need to see. To be successful, if you're a student learning in the classroom and beyond here in the workforce, to be able to earn a livelihood if you don't have access to capital and can't afford glasses, how are we going to help you? And it was from those very early days that we decided to provide a pair of glasses for every pair that we sell through our buy a pair, give a pair program. And I'm excited to report that we now distributed over 10 million pairs of glasses to people in need around the world. And one of the reasons why we chose to say, hey, we're going to do this, provide a pair of glasses for every pair that we sell, rather than, let's say, a percent of revenue or percent of profits dedicated to that mission is because we thought that if we tied it to the brand, we would attract great talent that cared about this. But also, consumers would recognize this. And if for some reason, we weren't in control of the company, that no future owner or executive would stop doing this because it would be detrimental to the brand. So, we wanted to tie into the brand and make that commitment. And that came from a sincere place. It came from what was going to motivate us every morning to wake up and not roll over and hit the snooze button and be excited to go to work. Because we knew that building a business is really hard. It's going to require a lot of sleepless nights. So, we wanted to ensure that we were properly motivated. And that was really about doing well but also doing good. And when we wrote out and thought about that mission and vision and providing vision to all, for example, right? We've always thought about that figuratively and literally as I just described. How do we provide contact lenses and eyeglasses to the people that need them? But figuratively, how do we serve as an example of a business that does well and does good and hopefully inspires other entrepreneurs and other executives to manage their business in a similar way? 

Adam: I love that. Have a mission, have a vision. But it shouldn't just be something that you write down on a piece of paper. It shouldn’t just be something that you have on the walls of your office. It shouldn't just be something that you have on your website. It has to be something that you live and breathe, that's integral to your business. And I love that what has been so integral to your business has been, by one, give one away social entrepreneurship. And to your point, it's not a gimmick, it's not a marketing promotion, it's right at the core of what you do, it's right at the core of your brand. If you want to build a successful brand, if you want to build a successful business, if you want to be successful in anything you do, it starts with authenticity.

Neil: Absolutely. And one of our core values is to do good. So, we hope that people that want to come and work for Warby Parker are self-selecting, to apply for a job because they believe in the values of the company. And that's how we'll have long-term success is through a strong culture that's rooted in these values. Another value is learn, grow, repeat. And we look for people that are curious because we want to make sure that we're getting better at everything that we do every day, whether that's process or a design, or how we acquire customers, everything that we do, we should be getting better at. And in those early days, we spent a lot of time writing down what are the adjectives that we would use to describe Warby Parker? What are the attributes that are important to us as a company? And one of the things that we kept coming back to is that Warby Parker should stand for fun, creativity, and doing good in the world. And we thought, well, who best represents fun creativity and doing good? And it's writers. And we also thought about what do glasses enable? Well, they enable you to see and they enable you to read and to learn. And that also goes back to, kind of, that literary aspect. So, when we were thinking about how to name the company, we kept going to writers and literary figures. And there happened to be a New York Public Library exhibit at the New York Public Library. And it was this exhibit on Jack Kerouac and two of his early characters were Warby Pepper and Zag Parker. And that's where the name Warby Parker came from. And it's funny people ask like, what was one of the hardest things that you had to do in building the business? It was actually coming up with the name and when we incorporated the business, we actually incorporated it as Jan Danke with J A N D, Jeff and Danielle Dave, because we didn't have the name yet. And, I think, people always associate names with brands. But you really have to put together your brand architecture. And figure out your mission, vision, values and who you are and what you stand for, before you come up with the name. Writing the name is more of an output of the brand and not necessarily the input.

Adam: I can double down on what you just shared. It's way harder than anyone realizes to name a business. So, to anyone out there, if you're really good at naming businesses, that's a skill. Go with it, monetize it.

Neil: Absolutely.

Adam: You've mentioned the word ‘we’ so many times. And your classmates, your teammates, your co-founders have been essential to the success of this business becoming what it's become. So many of us emerge from business school where we worked in teams, and that experience has been very helpful as you enter into the real world. So many of us never went to business school, but have played team sports or have worked in group projects. And that experience is equally essential as you go into the real world. And I want to know if you could talk about the team dynamics and what advice you have for anyone thinking about teamwork, and how to build a winning team in the real world, in the world of business.

Neil: So, just as any sports team, in order to have success, you have to practice. You need to make commitments to each other. The same goes for founding teams, and for any sort of business, especially fast-growing businesses. And one of the first things that we did, Jeff, Andy, Dave and I would sit down and make a commitment to each other that, hey, do we all really want to do this? Let's check in because none of us have started real businesses before. And the little that we know about entrepreneurship is that it's really hard. So, it's very time-consuming. And that there's one aspect of life that is scarce, it's time. So, are we all passionate about this? And are we all going to invest time in it? Then the answer was yes. It was then and it was, okay, well, how do we ensure that we're going to be friends throughout this process? And that was another commitment that we made to each other. That's okay. We've all read all those horror stories of these businesses that achieved financial success, but then the founders quickly became enemies. And we didn't want to fall into that stereotype because we each became close friends very quickly through business school. So, we want to ensure that that friendship would remain intact. And we started talking to management professors and talking to other folks on high-performing teams. And one thing that kept coming back was the need to have mechanisms to provide feedback and to share feedback. And what we decided to do was every week, go to the local bar, sit down, have a beer, and give each other feedback. And this enabled us to become a better team. But it also acted as a release valve. So that way, if there was ever discontent or something simmering under the surface, we could expose it and talk about it and resolve it. So, an example would be like, there were certain times where we would assign different areas of the business to the four of us, right? To divide and conquer and move things forward. And we were all super busy going to classes during the day, during our schoolwork, and then working on this business. And in the middle of the night, sometimes we'd catch up on work and be sharing updates with each other. And I remember getting an email. And it was a really long email walking through a bunch of ideas around the area of the business that I was focused on. And I was like, oh man, why am I getting this email at one in the morning? Do they think that I'm not doing my job? And so we brought this up and discussed it and sure enough, it was like no, no one thought that I wasn't doing the job. That I wasn't doing what I said I was going to do. It was just that my co-founder was excited about certain areas of the business and before he was going to sleep it was running through his head. So, he just wanted to get it out on paper and share it with me. And having those discussions allowed stuff like that to surface and for us to discuss it and made us stronger and more collaborative, and then potentially creating reps.

Adam: I love that. That's so essential and really right at the heart of your ability to work so well with your co-founders. And right at the heart of every great team is effective communication. Communication is essential to great teamwork. Communication is essential to great leadership. And to that end, in your experience, what do you believe are the key characteristics of a great leader? And what can anyone do to become a better leader? 

Neil: I think a leader needs to have a goal and vision. You can't really lead someone if you don't have a picture of where you want to go. And where do you want to lead people to? So, I think, that's number one. Number two is some semblance of a plan, ideally, as detailed as possible. But like, what are some clear steps that are going to enable you in a team to achieve that goal, that mission, and vision that you have in mind? And then it's really about understanding what skill sets you need in order to execute against that plan. And more often than not, it's less like functional expertise. And it's more attributes, like ambition, tenacity and proactivity. And being able to assess individuals to see. Do they have those skill sets and also assess what is motivating for any particular individual? And then finding ways to get those individuals excited about what you're going to accomplish as a team. And then it's about communicating and creating forums for people to feel a sense of belonging, and that leads to motivation. But what we found is that constant communication, keeping people informed, and giving them also an outlet to share information on what's working and what's not, enables us to move forward and collaborate effectively.

Adam: You shared a little bit earlier on in the conversation about what you look for in the people you hire insofar as the importance of finding people with shared values. What else do you look for? And what are your best tips on the topic of hiring?

Neil: One of the things that I'll often look for if we're hiring somebody in a management role, for example, I want to know about a time where they help somebody to their best. Where they were able to encourage and support someone, enable someone to thrive. I want to know that somebody's motivated, that they actually want to work at Warby Parker. Then I might look for examples of how much they know currently about the company and what they do professionally and personally. Does that align with what we're trying to do at Warby Parker? Another value that Warby Parker has is presumed positive intent. And this goes back to that idea about being able to give and receive feedback. And what we mean by presuming positive intent is everyone that comes to work at Warby Parker is there to achieve the mission. So, if we're having debates, if we're having conversations, let's not challenge each other's intentions. The intention is to do good and to achieve the mission. Let's challenge each other's ideas. So, that way we arrived at the best possible decisions and the best outcomes. So, I want to know during the interview process that somebody's mature enough to be able to presume positive intent and engage in rigorous debate.

Adam: I love that. And I think that that's actually essential to a great leader. Great leaders are continually looking to surround themselves with people who can provide the best insights possible. Great leaders don't take contrary advice personally. On the contrary, they seek contrary advice. They want to hear as many different perspectives as possible, because by hearing from a wide range of voices, by hearing from all kinds of people, you can come to the best, most informed decision possible. 

Neil: Absolutely. 

Adam: Neil, before we go, I want to ask some rapid-fire questions. Warby Parker has been a leader in social entrepreneurship. What advice do you have for anyone interested in social entrepreneurship?

Neil: I think there's sometimes an idea that you need to figure out your business and spend all of your time on your quote-unquote, “core business”. And then you have some small strategy around giving back or what have you, when, at the end of the day, what you're trying to solve, often through philanthropy or giving back, are these large intractable problems that require as much, if not more, strategic thought and resources than the core money-making aspect of the business. So, I just encourage anybody that's trying to build a social enterprise to be as thoughtful around doing good as making money. So, for example, with distributing glasses, what's the best way to get glasses in the hands of people that need them? In some situations, like when folks are in a refugee camp, and in a relief situation, let's get glasses to people for free. If it's an emerging economic situation, like in rural Bangladesh, or what have you, can we train people to start their own businesses to sell glasses at a nominal price to help create that economic incentive to provide glasses to people in those communities? In situations where you're dealing with children, how do we keep in mind that, just like adults, glasses are part of someone's identity? So, they need to look good or people won't wear them. So, when we're providing glasses, for example, in New York City public schools, we're designing them the same as designers that are selling glasses. For our stores or our website, the same designers are designing collections for those students to receive glasses through our buy a pair give a pair program. So, I just say that as much thought and rigor needs to go into it as the money-making portion of a business.

Adam: You've raised more than half a billion dollars across nine different rounds of funding before going public. What are your best tips on fundraising?

Neil: Build relationships ahead of having to ask for money and have all your ducks in a row, again, often ahead of asking for money. So, the process starts well before. Have you thought through your business strategy? Do you know your customers? Do you know all the market dynamics? Have you prepared materials? Have you vetted those materials? And have you built relationships so that way, the first time you're meeting someone is not the time that you're asking them for money? 

Adam: What is your single best piece of advice for anyone in the direct-to-consumer space?

Neil: Build something that is differentiated, that's rooted in real customer need. There's a lot of excitement of just taking any product and going direct to the consumer. If it cuts out the middleman and you can draw prices, that's super beneficial that you have access to more data and information on ways to make customers happier. That's super powerful. But if you're going after a small market with low barriers to entry, that's really tough.

Adam: Warby Parker has 160 retail locations and is growing. What are your best tips for retailers?

Neil: For retailers, it's to rethink the assumptions. Whenever we walked into an optical shop, we were always frustrated that the glasses were under a glass display or behind the counter out of reach. There were these small vanity mirrors to look at it yourself. So, when we started creating physical spaces, we thought, oh, what if we put glasses on a shelf? What if we use full-length mirrors? And sure enough, customers just preferred things like that. And then we would test out the right number of frames to be on a shelf. So, I just use those as an example of just because somebody's doing it one way before, it doesn't have to be the same going forward. And then, of course, the only thing that matters in a retail environment is really the people. So, how can you find great folks and train them effectively and invest in them to make customers happy?

Adam: What's the future of retail?

Neil: The future of retail should really mirror how we live our lives. And that's both physically and digitally. The vast majority of Warby Parker customers engage with us both digitally and physically. So, even those that are often transacting within the four walls of the store, are browsing and shopping online ahead of time. And these journeys are far more complex than people realize. And sometimes it's an easy news story to say that it's one channel versus the other. But at the end of the day, all of these tools enable us to create many different journeys. So, that way customers can choose their own path that suits them the best. So, I think, the future of retail is just further customization and the use of all of these amazing tools that we didn't have 20 or 30 years ago, to create multiple paths depending on customers’ desires and preferences.

Adam: Neil, what can anyone do to become more successful personally and professionally?

Neil: The best thing that anyone can do is seek some feedback. As a business, I'm constantly asking our customers, how are we doing? What can we do better? As a leader and as an individual, we should all do the same, seek feedback, both positive and negative. It's feedback that is constructive that you can act on that makes one better. And in order to get constructive feedback, you have to create trust with those that you're seeking that feedback from.

Adam: Neil, thank you for all the great advice and thank you for being a part of Thirty Minute Mentors.

Neil: Thank you for having me. I really enjoyed it. 

Adam: I did too.


Adam Mendler is the CEO of The Veloz Group, where he co-founded and oversees ventures across a wide variety of industries. Adam is also the creator and host of the business and leadership podcast Thirty Minute Mentors, where he goes one on one with America's most successful people - Fortune 500 CEOs, founders of household name companies, Hall of Fame and Olympic gold medal winning athletes, political and military leaders - for intimate half-hour conversations each week. Adam has written extensively on leadership, management, entrepreneurship, marketing and sales, having authored over 70 articles published in major media outlets including Forbes, Inc. and HuffPost, and has conducted more than 500 one on one interviews with America’s top leaders through his collective media projects. A top leadership speaker, Adam draws upon his insights building and leading businesses and interviewing hundreds of America's top leaders as a top keynote speaker to businesses, universities and non-profit organizations.

Follow Adam on Instagram and Twitter at @adammendler and listen and subscribe to Thirty Minute Mentors on your favorite podcasting app.